You Can't Beat Something With Nothing

[gcthomas]

 

[Granite]

Was is the point you are trying to make in this thread?

I thought the OP was pretty clear.

The Republicans want to send the $500 million to the other thousands of clinics that provide care to women in lieu of sending it to PP, which has only about 700 facilities.

Mmm. They do? I'd be interested to see them discussing this in detail. So far, "defund Planned Parenthood" is as far as they've gotten, which is why I asked TOLers for actual alternatives and solutions. Guy's the closest one so far to actually do this.

The videos show that PP is breaking the law by selling baby parts for profits, and altering the time and procedure for abortions so they can make more money from the aborted baby parts and/or cadavers.

Wrong, again. I'm done trying to get through to you on that point.

PP was founded by Margaret Sanger, who was a racist, and a proponent of eugenics.

And the Apostle Paul was a confessed monster and Moses was a murderer.

That PP has nothing to do with either racism or eugenics today is frustrating to its critics, to be sure, which is why so many people lie so often and insist Planned Parenthood's got some kind of racist/eugenic/whatever agenda going on.

 

[tetelestai]

Mmm. They do?

Yes.

The Democrats, like they always do with their alleged "war on women", are spinning the defunding of PP into that the Republicans want to take away 500 million for women's health services.

That's not what the Republicans who want PP defunded are calling for.

All they want is PP defunded, not the 500 million taken away. The Republicans are just fine with the 500 million going to the thousands of other clinics that provide services for women.

The other thousands of clinics aren't selling baby parts for profit, and aren't changing abortion procedures and timing for bigger profits like PP is.

Not to mention that the other clinics aren't giving tens of millions of dollars back to Democrats like PP does.

 

[Quetzal]

Yes.

The Democrats, like they always do with their alleged "war on women", are spinning the defunding of PP into that the Republicans want to take away 500 million for women's health services.

That's not what the Republicans who want PP defunded are calling for.

All they want is PP defunded, not the 500 million taken away. The Republicans are just fine with the 500 million going to the thousands of other clinics that provide services for women.

The other thousands of clinics aren't selling baby parts for profit, and aren't changing abortion procedures and timing for bigger profits like PP is.

Not to mention that the other clinics aren't giving tens of millions of dollars back to Democrats.

Be more specific, you want that money to go to any clinics that don't provide medical services you disagree with. Organizations giving funds to political candidates is nothing new.

 

[Granite]

The Democrats, like they always do with their alleged "war on women", are spinning the defunding of PP into that the Republicans want to take away 500 million for women's health services.

Because the GOP's got a sterling track record coming up with specifics and alternatives.

That's not what the Republicans who want PP defunded are calling for.

I see, so who specifically do you have in mind who's come up with alternatives?

All they want is PP defunded, not the 500 million taken away.

Where are you getting this idea?

The Republicans are just fine with the 500 million going to the thousands of other clinics that provide services for women.

Sure. Jeb's comments about too much money being spent on exactly this issue must've just been misconstrued.:yawn:

 

[tetelestai]

That PP has nothing to do with either racism or eugenics today is frustrating to its critics, to be sure, which is why so many people lie so often and insist Planned Parenthood's got some kind of racist/eugenic/whatever agenda going on.

If you go back and look at some of the things Sanger said, the people she surrounded herself with, the people she admired, the people she hired, etc., there's a lot of racism, eugenics, and other really bad stuff.

So the question becomes; are these PP clinics mostly in black neighborhoods because these black people need PP's services the most, or are these PP clinics in black neighborhoods because PP wants to abort more black babies than other babies?

For example: In 2012 there were 31,328 black babies killed by abortion in NYC compared to 24,758 born.

So, either PP is doing a wonderful service for poor blacks in NYC, or PP is making the owners of Confederate flags really happy.

 

[Quetzal]

If you go back and look at some of the things Sanger said, the people she surrounded herself with, the people she admired, the people she hired, etc., there's a lot of racism, eugenics, and other really bad stuff.

So the question becomes; are these PP clinics mostly in black neighborhoods because these black people need PP's services the most, or are these PP clinics in black neighborhoods because PP wants to abort more black babies than other babies?

For example: In 2012 there were 31,328 black babies killed by abortion in NYC compared to 24,758 born.

So, either PP is doing a wonderful service for poor blacks in NYC, or PP is making the owners of Confederate flags really happy.

Wow, what a stretch. It is a real shame this isn't the case.

 

[tetelestai]

Be more specific, you want that money to go to any clinics that don't provide medical services you disagree with.

Many of the other clinics provide abortions.

The Republicans want PP defunded because the videos prove they are breaking the law.

But, the really big reason Republicans want PP defunded is the tens of millions of dollars PP gives to Democrats.

The videos just give the Republicans a really good excuse to defund.

Organizations giving funds to political candidates is nothing new.

I have no problem with organizations giving money to political candidates.

PP gets over 500 million from taxpayers. That money shouldn't be used for political candidates.

How would you like it if I took part of your paycheck and gave the money to Republicans?

 

[tetelestai]

Sure. Jeb's comments about too much money being spent on exactly this issue must've just been misconstrued.:yawn:

I don't like Jeb.

However Jeb clarified what he meant. He meant the money to PP.

PP isn't the only clinic that provides women services that gets money, they're the largest.

 

[tetelestai]

Where are you getting this idea?

Where are you getting the idea that the money won't go elsewhere?

 

[tetelestai]

It is a real shame this isn't the case.

Which one?

Providing a service for poor black women, or making racists and eugenic proponents really happy?

 

[Granite]

If you go back and look at some of the things Sanger said, the people she surrounded herself with, the people she admired, the people she hired, etc., there's a lot of racism, eugenics, and other really bad stuff.

I've already addressed this, tet. Not sure why you keep bringing it up as though it's news.

So the question becomes; are these PP clinics mostly in black neighborhoods

Actually no, they're not, and...guess what. I've already addressed this, too. Go back and read my response.

 

[Quetzal]

Which one?

Providing a service for poor black women, or making racists and eugenic proponents really happy?

You made a racist claim that PP wants to perform more abortions on black people than white people. It is not the case and is slanderous.

 

[Granite]

I don't like Jeb.

However Jeb clarified what he meant. He meant the money to PP.

PP isn't the only clinic that provides women services that gets money, they're the largest.

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/fir...suggests-womens-health-issues-are-overfunded/

Well no, not really. He did indeed mean in general.

“You could take dollar for dollar — although I’m not sure we need half a billion dollars for women’s health issues,” he said, “but if you took, dollar for dollar, there are many extraordinary fine organizations, community health organizations, that exist, federally sponsored organizations, to provide quality care for women on a variety of health issues.”

Jeb's "gaffe" is representative of the larger legitimate rape/birth control makes you a slut mentality rampant in his party.

 

[Granite]

Where are you getting the idea that the money won't go elsewhere?

:rotfl:

 

[tetelestai]

You made a racist claim that PP wants to perform more abortions on black people than white people. It is not the case and is slanderous.

The numbers don't lie.

Compared to the population, the number of black abortions is much higher than non-black abortions.

So, either black women purposely have more abortions than non-black women, or PP has more clinics that provide abortions in black communities than non-black communities.

The CDC releases numbers each year.

Here are the 2010 numbers from the CDC.

Among the 28 areas that reported cross-classified race/ethnicity data for 2010 (Table 12), non-Hispanic white women and non-Hispanic black women accounted for the largest percentages of abortions (36.8% and 35.7%, respectively), whereas Hispanic women and non-Hispanic women in the other races category accounted for smaller percentages (21.0% and 6.5%, respectively). Non-Hispanic white women had the lowest abortion rates (8.6 abortions per 1,000 women aged 15–44 years) and ratios (141 abortions per 1,000 live births), whereas non-Hispanic black women had the highest abortion rates (31.8 abortions per 1,000 women aged 15–44 years) and ratios (483 abortions per 1,000 live births).

 

[Quetzal]

The numbers don't lie.

Compared to the population, the number of black abortions is much higher than non-black abortions.

So, either black women purposely have more abortions than non-black women, or PP has more clinics that provide abortions in black communities than non-black communities.

The CDC releases numbers each year.

Here are the 2010 numbers from the CDC.

Among the 28 areas that reported cross-classified race/ethnicity data for 2010 (Table 12), non-Hispanic white women and non-Hispanic black women accounted for the largest percentages of abortions (36.8% and 35.7%, respectively), whereas Hispanic women and non-Hispanic women in the other races category accounted for smaller percentages (21.0% and 6.5%, respectively). Non-Hispanic white women had the lowest abortion rates (8.6 abortions per 1,000 women aged 15–44 years) and ratios (141 abortions per 1,000 live births), whereas non-Hispanic black women had the highest abortion rates (31.8 abortions per 1,000 women aged 15–44 years) and ratios (483 abortions per 1,000 live births).

You are trying to make a racist argument out of a non-racist topic. Speaks volumes to your character.

 

[Granite]

You are trying to make a racist argument out of a non-racist topic. Speaks volumes to your character.

He's ignoring the economic disparity that's driving this as well and somehow thinks it must all be PP's fault. As though a targeted campaign is at work here on their part.

 

[tetelestai]

You are trying to make a racist argument out of a non-racist topic. Speaks volumes to your character.

The founder of PP (Sanger) was a racist and proponent of eugenics.

PP performs abortions on black women at a much higher percentage than non-black women, and their abortion centers are mostly in black communities.

In Sanger's magazine (Birth Control Review), Margaret Sanger said the following in the April 1932 issue, that can be found on page 108:

“Birth control must lead to a cleaner race”

What is a cleaner race?

Let's look at what Dr. Dorothy Ferebee (who was black) said at the 1942 PP annual convention:

"…those of us who believe that the benefits of Planned Parenthood as a vital key to the elimination of human waste must reach the entire population, also believe that a double effort must be made to extend this program as a public health measure to Negroes who need is proportionately greater.”

Sanger hoodwinked black ministers and other black professionals to help her. It's why Sanger founded The Negro Project.

 

[tetelestai]

He's ignoring the economic disparity that's driving this as well and somehow thinks it must all be PP's fault. As though a targeted campaign is at work here on their part.

Whether intentional or not, PP is exterminating the black community.

Since 1973 PP has reduced the black population by 25%

It doesn't help your cause that PP's founder was a proponent of eugenic racism.