Why "Conversion Therapy" Should Be Illegal

[Rosenritter]

The rantings of homophones is indistinguishable from the ranting of racists.

Racists have a long history of doing just what you did here. Associate a minority with a sexual crime and that makes hate OK

Seems to me that you're the only one here expressing the bigoted view that aberrant sexual behavior is associated with race.

 

[MrDante]

sure they are - children are allowed to consent to any number of things, such as whether they want to participate in sports or go to summer camp or do a sleepover at johnny's house

I pray you don't have access to children.

 

[Rosenritter]

I pray you don't have access to children.

I presume that OK Doser already has knowledge that Johnny (at "Johnny's house") is neither a practicing homosexual or pedophile. Perhaps in your corner of the world that is no longer a safe assumption.

 

[MrDante]

Yet it can been demonstrated that homosexuality and pedophilia has had far increased numbers in societies that accept, embrace, or celebrate these behaviors.

Evidence? oh yeah like that is gonna happen.

Greek Sparta, being one such example.

Except the individuals who entered into a same sex relationship in ancient Greece were considered adults and full citizens. the young men who entered into these relationships were actually older than the girls of ancient Greece were married off. Ref: K. Dover Greek Homosexuality, 1989.

In society where it has been condemned and discouraged it shows much lower prevalence. Yes, laws do not 100% prevent the spread of such aberrant behavior, but then laws never do, do they? We currently have laws against some forms of murder, but some people still murder. Should we embrace and celebrate murder as an alternative lifestyle?

[ racists compare blacks to murderes all the time.

What about necrophilia? or cannabalism? Provided, of course, it is limited to "consenting adults." Would you support child pornography provided that it only seemed to be live children being used? What if it was digitized, or the subjects were "technically" adults but just made to look like children?



Children who are not physically or mentally developed are currently being abused dismembered to the point of death and by the millions and the practice is protected by law. That hardly qualifies as "zero tolerance." Yes, laws certainly have changed.

Evide.....never mind.

 

[Rosenritter]

Racists have been spouting this same double speak for years. The rantings of homophobes is indistinguishable from the ranting of racists.

Tell me, do you even know the meaning of words that you bring forth from your mouth? For example, "homophobe" would indicate that one has a fear of homosexuals. I can rightly recognize homosexuality as an aberrant behavior and and a healthy repulsion without being subject to fear. Or are you just so practiced in the repetition of inaccurate labels that you are unable to divorce yourself from them to speak honestly without attempting to slander your perceived opponents?

 

[MrDante]

Seems to me that you're the only one here expressing the bigoted view that aberrant sexual behavior is associated with race.

Did i say that? Nope. So again false witness on your part.

 

[MrDante]

I presume that OK Doser already has knowledge that Johnny (at "Johnny's house") is neither a practicing homosexual or pedophile. Perhaps in your corner of the world that is no longer a safe assumption.

Considering what he just said i wouldn't want any child at Doser's house

you don't seem to be aware that that pedophiles are almost exclusively heterosexuals (color me surprised)

 

[MrDante]

Tell me, do you even know the meaning of words that you bring forth from your mouth? For example, "homophobe" would indicate that one has a fear of homosexuals. I can rightly recognize homosexuality as an aberrant behavior and and a healthy repulsion without being subject to fear. Or are you just so practiced in the repetition of inaccurate labels that you are unable to divorce yourself from them to speak honestly without attempting to slander your perceived opponents?

Homophobia - an irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or people who are identified or perceived as being lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender. It includes antipathy, contempt, prejudice, aversion, and hatred of homosexuals

You are a homophobe. Deal with it.

 

[Rosenritter]

Did i say that? Nope. So again false witness on your part.

So how did you somehow suggest that wanting aberrant sexual behavior out of the Dr. Who program was objecting to black people? Are black people now homosexual? Where did this come from? That was your contribution to the thread.

 

[Rosenritter]

Homophobia - an irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or people who are identified or perceived as being lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender. It includes antipathy, contempt, prejudice, aversion, and hatred of homosexuals

You are a homophobe. Deal with it.

I have a rational aversion to homosexual behavior and culture without hatred or fear of individuals. Your ill-guided quest is to demand that everyone accept and embrace that culture and you are willing to engage in hate-mongering to try to make this happen. Ultimately It's not going to work. Persist in trolling at your own peril. Deal with it.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Yet it can been demonstrated that homosexuality and pedophilia has had far increased numbers in societies that accept, embrace, or celebrate these behaviors. Greek Sparta, being one such example. In society where it has been condemned and discouraged it shows much lower prevalence. Yes, laws do not 100% prevent the spread of such aberrant behavior, but then laws never do, do they? We currently have laws against some forms of murder, but some people still murder. Should we embrace and celebrate murder as an alternative lifestyle?

Current society accepts homosexuality and condemns child molestation so that doesn't add up. Laws don't alter people's sexual orientation so simply recognizing that a percentage of society are homosexual isn't going to lead to the "fall of Rome" or something. Some people are gay, it's as simple as that. Provided they don't break the law they have and should have the same rights as anyone else. Your "murder" argument is ridiculous.

What about necrophilia? or cannabalism? Provided, of course, it is limited to "consenting adults." Would you support child pornography provided that it only seemed to be live children being used? What if it was digitized, or the subjects were "technically" adults but just made to look like children?

I wouldn't support any form of child pornography and your argument is getting more and more convoluted as it goes on.

Children who are not physically or mentally developed are currently being abused dismembered to the point of death and by the millions and the practice is protected by law. That hardly qualifies as "zero tolerance." Yes, laws certainly have changed.

I don't agree with current abortion laws but there's plenty a thread to take that topic further.

 

[Kit the Coyote]

a fascinating look at a man struggling to control his pedophilic urges and one of Kevin Bacon's best roles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Woodsman_(2004_film)

Sounds like it, a sympathetic view that neither glorifies or encourages the behavior.

 

[Rosenritter]

Current society accepts homosexuality and condemns child molestation so that doesn't add up. Laws don't alter people's sexual orientation so simply recognizing that a percentage of society are homosexual isn't going to lead to the "fall of Rome" or something. Some people are gay, it's as simple as that. Provided they don't break the law they have and should have the same rights as anyone else. Your "murder" argument is ridiculous.

It is not ridiculous, it was a counter for your suggestion that since previous laws against homosexuality didn't eliminate it completely, that laws should be made in favor of homosexuality. I could have used almost any crime or deviant behavior as an example.

The current efforts to attempt to normalize or celebrate homosexual choice and lifestyle are a form of "conversion" therapy. It may not be the electrocution style you envisioned earlier, but it has been having a noticeable effect. As the well known example of Sparta indicates, homosexual behavior and choice is influenced by societal acceptance and expectations.

I wouldn't support any form of child pornography and your argument is getting more and more convoluted as it goes on.

Here your argument seems inconsistent. If it is just a matter of "lifestyle" and "preference" and the only participants are "consenting adults" then why not? As a courtesy I'll skip ahead rather than trying to bait you further. Might it be because condoning or encouraging the those types of thoughts might also lead to a further increase in application and action?

I don't agree with current abortion laws but there's plenty a thread to take that topic further.

Then maybe you might also understand why I protest and say that the spirit behind this whole societal shift doesn't care about protection of children who are too young to defend themselves.

 

[Kit the Coyote]

so simply recognizing that a percentage of society is homosexual isn't going to lead to the "fall of Rome" or something.

I once joked to someone making the 'gays caused the fall of Rome' argument that if you look at the history the fall of Rome occurred well after Christianity was declared the state religion and homosexuality was outlawed. He didn't like that observation.

 

[Arthur Brain]

[

It is not ridiculous, it was a counter for your suggestion that since previous laws against homosexuality didn't eliminate it completely, that laws should be made in favor of homosexuality. I could have used almost any crime or deviant behavior as an example.

I didn't suggest that. Homosexuality would be about no matter what laws were in place. It's not something that could be eradicated.

The current efforts to attempt to normalize or celebrate homosexual choice and lifestyle are a form of "conversion" therapy. It may not be the electrocution style you envisioned earlier, but it has been having a noticeable effect. As the well known example of Sparta indicates, homosexual behavior and choice is influenced by societal acceptance and expectations.

What are you on about where it comes to "choice"? I've had several folk on here argue that straight people can "choose" to become attracted to their own gender and it's ridiculous. Just because homosexuals aren't regarded as "freaks" anymore doesn't introduce some sort of "gay virus" into the population. Gay people have been about since ancient times.

Here your argument seems inconsistent. If it is just a matter of "lifestyle" and "preference" and the only participants are "consenting adults" then why not? As a courtesy I'll skip ahead rather than trying to bait you further. Might it be because condoning or encouraging the those types of thoughts might also lead to a further increase in application and action?

"Lifestyle and preference"? At the risk of aCW keeping tabs I'm a straight guy and that's not a "preference" or a "lifestyle" choice, it's just how I'm wired. It doesn't define me as a person and for many gay people it's the same. Their daily life will consist of the same mundane things like anyone else, paying bills, doing shopping and keeping afloat.

Then maybe you might also understand why I protest and say that the spirit behind this whole societal shift doesn't care about protection of children who are too young to defend themselves.

What about young teenagers who have been bullied for being gay to the point of committing suicide? You should read LMOHM's testimony on here where he was subject to "conversion therapy" and other nutty stuff where it drove him to self harm and didn't help at all.

 

[Rosenritter]

I once joked to someone making the 'gays caused the fall of Rome' argument that if you look at the history the fall of Rome occurred well after Christianity was declared the state religion and homosexuality was outlawed. He didn't like that observation.

Rome was destined to fall long before it made its own state religion which it called Christianity. It was written as far back as Daniel.

 

[Rosenritter]

[
I didn't suggest that. Homosexuality would be about no matter what laws were in place. It's not something that could be eradicated.
[\quote]

Your approach here isn't proving anything. There are plenty of things that we cannot completely eradicate that are harmful to our health, society, and against natural law.

What are you on about where it comes to "choice"? I've had several folk on here argue that straight people can "choose" to become attracted to their own gender and it's ridiculous. Just because homosexuals aren't regarded as "freaks" anymore doesn't introduce some sort of "gay virus" into the population. Gay people have been about since ancient times.

Sexuality (like other behavior) can be conditioned, and choices that we make (or inflict on others) can affect conditioning. There are plenty of jail inmates that consider themselves "straight" yet have raped other men. I maintain that a man raping another man necessitates a homosexual act.

In this example, such an act would be produced by a choice. And we humans are such that we can condition ourselves to that which at one time might have been contrary to our nature (including violence and murder). That conditioning can be inflicted by others (through brainwashing) or by ourselves (through choices.)

"Lifestyle and preference"? At the risk of aCW keeping tabs I'm a straight guy and that's not a "preference" or a "lifestyle" choice, it's just how I'm wired. It doesn't define me as a person and for many gay people it's the same. Their daily life will consist of the same mundane things like anyone else, paying bills, doing shopping and keeping afloat.

So as long as you Vote for one of the major parties and Pay Your Taxes all is good and well? No, it is a lifestyle choice, and a homosexual lifestyle is naturally incompatible with other lifestyles. Our God and Creator has clearly said that homosexual behavior is an abomination, and a choice to live in a way that openly defies God is not going to bring that person closer to repentance and salvation and eternal life.

I didn't ask about your sexual orientation, but may I ask if you consider yourself Christian? The reason being is because it makes a difference how to continue explanation past this point (I need to know what degree of common ground we share.)

What about young teenagers who have been bullied for being gay to the point of committing suicide? You should read LMOHM's testimony on here where he was subject to "conversion therapy" and other nutty stuff where it drove him to self harm and didn't help at all.

What about young teenagers who have been bullied for (supposedly) being gay who were never gay in the first place? Or of those who were smaller in size? Or better at academics? Or because they had a different religious faith or traditions? I've experienced all of these. There is a problem with evil in man, and the only way to eradicate that evil is to turn man to good, that is, God. Our God has laid out some absolute standards, and a culture that defies God is going to continue by its own definition of good and evil, and that "self-defining" standard of good and evil has been the source of evil from the beginning.

 

[Kit the Coyote]

Rome was destined to fall long before it made its own state religion which it called Christianity. It was written as far back as Daniel.

Seems to have done fairly well for the period before that though.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Your approach here isn't proving anything. There are plenty of things that we cannot completely eradicate that are harmful to our health, society, and against natural law.

There's plenty of evidence for 'homosexual behaviour' in nature and society is a lot more healthy since it's recognized that homosexuals are simply people who are equally deserving of the same rights, as it did beforehand with black people and women. You're not going to eradicate racism or misogyny out of society completely but those forces have long since lost power.

Sexuality (like other behavior) can be conditioned, and choices that we make (or inflict on others) can affect conditioning. There are plenty of jail inmates that consider themselves "straight" yet have raped other men. I maintain that a man raping another man necessitates a homosexual act.

And plenty of folk have no sexual contact whilst in prison. This is the go to where it comes to sexual conditioning, as what you're arguing seems to be that if homosexuality isn't condemned it can lead to homosexual attraction in schools. Not buying it.

In this example, such an act would be produced by a choice. And we humans are such that we can condition ourselves to that which at one time might have been contrary to our nature (including violence and murder). That conditioning can be inflicted by others (through brainwashing) or by ourselves (through choices.)

Well I dunno about you dude but there's no way I could choose to change orientation or even entertain bi-sexuality. Women only here. Just because there's less prejudice against homosexuals doesn't equal folk becoming them.

So as long as you Vote for one of the major parties and Pay Your Taxes all is good and well? No, it is a lifestyle choice, and a homosexual lifestyle is naturally incompatible with other lifestyles. Our God and Creator has clearly said that homosexual behavior is an abomination, and a choice to live in a way that openly defies God is not going to bring that person closer to repentance and salvation and eternal life.

Oh please, if people are gay then that's all there is to it and what "lifestyle" are you talking about? You seem to be a religious fundamentalist and closed to anything contrary to your view and frankly, I'm not a zealot of any description.

I didn't ask about your sexual orientation, but may I ask if you consider yourself Christian? The reason being is because it makes a difference how to continue explanation past this point (I need to know what degree of common ground we share.)

Well, see above. I'm not an atheist but I've little time for any form of religious zealotry.

What about young teenagers who have been bullied for (supposedly) being gay who were never gay in the first place? Or of those who were smaller in size? Or better at academics? Or because they had a different religious faith or traditions? I've experienced all of these. There is a problem with evil in man, and the only way to eradicate that evil is to turn man to good, that is, God. Our God has laid out some absolute standards, and a culture that defies God is going to continue by its own definition of good and evil, and that "self-defining" standard of good and evil has been the source of evil from the beginning.

I'm sorry you had to experience that when you were younger. I wasn't spared bullying myself as a kid but I'm not going to support anything that villifies gay people simply for being homosexual and certainly not out of religious "reasoning".

 

[Delmar]

Well I dunno about you dude but there's no way I could choose to change orientation or even entertain bi-sexuality.

You have no idea if that is true.