Why Calvinist Cannot Defend Their Doctrine of a Limited Atonement

[Robert Pate]

I see, so when John says, "Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. (1Jo 2:15 ESV)"

He is saying that if we love human beings and the whole created order, the love of the Father is not in us?

:idunno:

So, you have resorted to finding fault with John and the scriptures?

 

[Robert Pate]

So if I understand you correctly, the atonement of Christ is only effective when supplemented by our faith?

The atonement is not ours if we don't receive it.

 

[Robert Pate]

Can I reasonably assume that you believe in a universal propitiation and an individual propitiation? If so where is this taught?

And you have not been very forthcoming about your Scriptural support for the re-imputation of sin/s. I would expect there to be at least five distinct to-the-point references and yet you have given none.

See my thread "The Imputation of Sin and Righteousness".

 

[Brother Ducky]

See my thread "The Imputation of Sin and Righteousness".

See my thread? Beginning to sound like B57 there.

Well I did take a quick read, and what I did not find was any reference to the re-imputation of sin/s. Are you going to address this in either thread? And are you going to address your universal vs individual atonement, reconciliation, propitiation etc.?

 

[Brother Ducky]

The atonement is not ours if we don't receive it.

How can you receive that which is universal?

 

[beloved57]

The atonement is not ours if we don't receive it.

False statement, not supported by scripture ! Those Christ died for have been atoned, reconciled to God while they are enemies Rom 5:10 ! They received it while being unbelieving enemies ! So its theirs as unbelievers and enemies !

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

All you are interested in is making stuff up and false witness and arguing. You have no interest in actually defending your beliefs by making your case point by point. Sometimes you get so far, then you give up, and use a phrase such as "you are void of the Holy Spirit", or "it will all be clear in the judgment" etc.. I and many others have tried numerous times to understand your doctrines, and invest much time to do so, only to get so far with you where nothing was really explained.

You keep repeating your pet phrases rather than explaining what they mean, or how you come to understand them.

Every once in awhile I will test to see if you are interested in constructive discussion, at which point I will gladly take the time; but if all you want to do is to label and then judge people with what you perceive they believe and come to faulty conclusions, even when you are corrected multiple times, then I'm not interested.

Nicely done.

Direct challenges to Robert to stand still and defend his views are always met with wave-offs. He is just too busy starting new threads with retreaded content.

AMR

 

[fishrovmen]

Nicely done.

Direct challenges to Robert to stand still and defend his views are always met with wave-offs. He is just too busy starting new threads with retreaded content.

AMR

Honestly, I have been impressed this time. He has for the most part at least attempted to answer questions without attacking or "you figure it out" comments. Hopefully it will continue.

 

[Robert Pate]

How can you receive that which is universal?

God has reconciled the world unto himself by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

This reconciliation is not yours if you don't receive it.

This is why Paul said, "We pray you in Christ's stead, BE YE RECONCILED TO GOD" 2 Corinthians 5:20.

 

[beloved57]

God has reconciled the world unto himself by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

This reconciliation is not yours if you don't receive it.

This is why Paul said, "We pray you in Christ's stead, BE YE RECONCILED TO GOD" 2 Corinthians 5:20.

You can quote all the scripture you like, If you dont believe the Truths of TULIP, you dont believe those very scriptures you quote !

 

[Bright Raven]

You can quote all the scripture you like, If you dont believe the Truths of TULIP, you dont believe those very scriptures you quote !

Tulip is nothing but an incorrect formula describing the Gospel

http://www.angelfire.com/realm/raised-to-life/Articles/Cult.html

 

[Robert Pate]

Tulip is nothing but an incorrect formula describing the Gospel

http://www.angelfire.com/realm/raised-to-life/Articles/Cult.html

Excellent article Bright Raven.

We would hope that those who have embraced this false doctrine will read it and repent.

 

[Dialogos]

Excellent article Bright Raven.

We would hope that those who have embraced this false doctrine will read it and repent.

"Firstly, like all other cults, Calvinists like to claim that all other theological systems are "false gospels." This is especially true when it comes to their concept of the doctrines of salvation."

This statement alone is easily recognized as false.

 

[Cedarbay]

Tulip is nothing but an incorrect formula describing the Gospel

http://www.angelfire.com/realm/raised-to-life/Articles/Cult.html

I don't know you well, but am surprised that you cite this. It is just an inflammatory piece of bunk.

 

[beloved57]

Excellent article Bright Raven.

We would hope that those who have embraced this false doctrine will read it and repent.

Tulip is the Gospel, doesnt matter what article that poster has posted ! It only shows that posters unbelief of the Gospel !

 

[Robert Pate]

I don't know you well, but am surprised that you cite this ridiculous, vile, inflammatory, piece of bunk.

Obviously neither you, nor Robert Pate, has recently attended an Orthodox Presbyterian service, one that subscribes to the Westminster Confession of Faith, nor a Reformed church that teaches from the Three Forms of Unity, and the historic confessions of the Christian church.

These churches do not place Calvin nor the Confessions above Holy Scripture.

To suggest they do, is dishonest and most grievous.

To place anything ahead of, along side of, or in the same room with Jesus Christ and his Gospel is idolatry.

 

[Robert Pate]

Tulip is the Gospel, doesnt matter what article that poster has posted ! It only shows that posters unbelief of the Gospel !

You really need to read the article, over and over and over and over.

It may be your last chance to come to the truth.

 

[beloved57]

You really need to read the article, over and over and over and over.

It may be your last chance to come to the truth.

Like I said, the article is meaningless, TULIP is the Gospel no matter how many times I read that article or you read it or anybody else reads it, after all that reading of it, TULIP remains the Gospel of Gods Grace in Christ !

 

[Cedarbay]

To place anything ahead of, along side of, or in the same room with Jesus Christ and his Gospel is idolatry.

How do you decide that one has done this, Robert?

Do you think a Lutheran is idolatrous, or a Methodist, or a Wesleyan, due to their statements of faith?

 

[Robert Pate]

Like I said, the article is meaningless, TULIP is the Gospel no matter how many times I read that article or you read it or anybody else reads it, after all that reading of it, TULIP remains the Gospel of Gods Grace in Christ !

What you are really saying is...

Don't bother me with Bible facts, I have already embraced the false doctrine of TULIP.

TULIP is your God and John Calvin is your pope.