ECT Who is saved?

turbosixx

New member
See my last post to graceandpeace, I mean, "God's Truth".

I checked it out and I would suggest to you he is talking about when they actually get to Heaven or when Jesus comes back which ever comes first. If we look earlier in the chapter, this is what he says.
1 Pt. 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you,

Concerning salvation he says they have obtained it by their faith.
1 Pt. 1:8 Though you have not seen him, you love him. Though you do not now see him, you believe in him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory, 9 obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
I checked it out and I would suggest to you he is talking about when they actually get to Heaven or when Jesus comes back which ever comes first. If we look earlier in the chapter, this is what he says.
1 Pt. 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you,

Concerning salvation he says they have obtained it by their faith.
1 Pt. 1:8 Though you have not seen him, you love him. Though you do not now see him, you believe in him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory, 9 obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
They had/will have to endure to the end to be saved. That is how the salvation of their sould can be said to be at "the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls" and "the grace that is to be brought" unto them is at the revelation of Jesus Christ (vs. that we already have it Ephesians 2:4-9 KJV).

1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

1 Peter 1:8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

1 Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

1 Peter 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

1 Peter 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

1 Peter 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

1 Peter 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

That is quite different than the fact that those in the Body of Christ "are saved" by the gospel of our salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV)/a mystery gospel (Romans 16:25-26 KJV, 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV) which is a present possession (1 Corinthians 1:18 KJV, 1 Corinthians 15:2 KJV, 2 Corinthians 2:15 KJV, Ephesians 2:5 KJV, Ephesians 2:8 KJV).

You should know by know having spent quite a while on TOL, if you are being honest with yourself and the scriptures and have surveyed the KJB at all: that things that differ are not the same. To try and make them such is a bad idea. Rather, you would do well to approve them (Philippians 1:9-10 KJV) by 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV.
 

Right Divider

Body part
Physically no but spiritually yes. The Jews were God's people under the old covenant. The way I understand it, what made them Jews was being a child of Abraham through Isaac and being circumcised. Under the new covenant, there is neither Jew nor Greek physically but they are one spiritually. Jesus tore down the dividing wall.
That is a false version of the what really happened.

Paul uses physical descriptors to show we (Christians) are now God's chosen people.

Children of Abraham and of promise.
Gal. 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.
Gal. 4:28 Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise.
You do know that Israel was Abraham's grandson, right? There are MANY other people what are Abraham's offspring.

I'm sure that you also understand that the new covenant is NOT one of the covenants referred to in Galatians 4

Circumcised.
Col. 2:11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,
Phil. 3:2 Look out for the dogs, look out for the evildoers, look out for those who mutilate the flesh. 3 For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh
Paul counted being a Jew rubbish.
That is also false. Paul counted his VAIN RELIGION as rubbish and not his lineage.

With all due respect, I do my very best not to ignore scripture. Only a fool would do that.

Jesus established the new covenant with his blood. On Pentecost, Peter proclaimed it to Israel.
Acts 2:14 But Peter, standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice and addressed them: “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give ear to my words.
Acts 2:36 Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”
The new covenant is between God and Israel, just like Jeremiah and Hebrews say that it is. This is why people invent mythological explanations of what "spiritual Israel" is.

The new covenant is not like the old written in stone but on hearts.
2 Cor. 3:3 And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
Rom. 10:8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim);

The new covenant forgives sins including the ones committed under the old.
Heb. 9:15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.
The body of Christ receives the benefits of the blood without any covenant.

See Ephesians, we are made nigh by the blood.... no covenant required.

I don’t see it as a continuation. I see it as under the new covenant there are Christians and everyone else. Jews can either convert or continue to stand against Christ.
Rom. 10:1 Brothers, my heart's desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
You also don't see the restoration of Israel in Romans 11. But it's there.
 

Right Divider

Body part
From your perspective, how does Paul say they will be saved?
Some references to "their salvation" refer to their coming into the earthly kingdom.

"Endure to the end shall be saved" refers to enduring the great tribulation and entering the kingdom.

How many churches are there after Jesus' death, burial and resurrection?
There is one body in the dispensation of the grace of God, which is where we are now.

When the body is caught away (per 1 Thess 4:17), God will complete all prophecy related to Israel and their kingdom.
 

God's Truth

New member
Acts 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

When?

1 Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
1 Peter 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
1 Peter 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
1 Peter 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
1 Peter 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

Peter is speaking about the gospel of salvation that happened as was prophesied about.
 

turbosixx

New member
Some references to "their salvation" refer to their coming into the earthly kingdom.

"Endure to the end shall be saved" refers to enduring the great tribulation and entering the kingdom.


There is one body in the dispensation of the grace of God, which is where we are now.

When the body is caught away (per 1 Thess 4:17), God will complete all prophecy related to Israel and their kingdom.

We both read the same passages and each come up with a different understandings of the state of Israel. I guess we can leave it at that for now.

Thanks for the discussion!
 

turbosixx

New member
That is quite different than the fact that those in the Body of Christ "are saved" by the gospel of our salvation.
I don't know of any other way to be saved than the gospel. Is there another?


You should know by know having spent quite a while on TOL, if you are being honest with yourself and the scriptures and have surveyed the KJB at all: that things that differ are not the same. To try and make them such is a bad idea. Rather, you would do well to approve them (Philippians 1:9-10 KJV) by 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV.

I am honest with myself when I study scripture and I do my very best to make sure they all fit together. I see harmony with all. I don't really see thing that differ. Maybe you can help me see from your perspective.

For example, the church. Paul said the church is the body. He said he persecuted the church. I don't see how the body and the church are different.
 

Danoh

New member
There is a difference between Israel as God's people and the body of Christ.

Paul makes is crystal clear in Roman 9-11 that God is not through with Israel.


There is more than one "church" in the Bible.

The body of Christ is NOT the same church as the "church in the wilderness", which was Israel.

Yep.

Rom. 5:8; 14:5.
 

Danoh

New member
I don't know of any other way to be saved than the gospel. Is there another?




I am honest with myself when I study scripture and I do my very best to make sure they all fit together. I see harmony with all. I don't really see thing that differ. Maybe you can help me see from your perspective.

For example, the church. Paul said the church is the body. He said he persecuted the church. I don't see how the body and the church are different.

I'll say this to you turbo, well aware by now from you yourself, that you do not easily crumble to having a possible error on your part, being pointed out to you.

I wish more were like that.

Anyway, what you say there is merely because you are reading a Bible that was first translated into English long, long after the traditions of men had set in them, and from within which they then translated those passages into English.

Even with the KJV - there had been a huge conflict back then between the Puritans and the Anglicans, over whether the word "congregation" or the word "church" was "the better translation."

Obviously, the Anglicans not only won that one out, but so persecuted the Puritans for their stance on the Geneva Bible, that they were foreced to end up "scattered abroad" - to the so called "New World" - which is why we will all be celebrating Thanksgiving in a few days - those Puritans and their Geneva Bible, and Plymouth Rock, and all the rest.

Yum, Turkey and cranberry sauce, and stuffing, and great, Tam type Thanksgiving decorations!

But anyway, all this shows that merely going by ANY translation alone, will very often end one up at more of the same - the traditions of men.

Fact of the matter is that throughout the Scripture, the study practice followed is that of their example of their studying out HOW words are used, WHERE they are found being used BY WHO, as to THE WHOM, concerning WHAT, in light of THE WHAT, WHEN, WHERE, WHY, and HOW of one thing or another.

Daniel 9:2 In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.

Get yourself a good collection of THOSE kinds of passages, carefully study them as to what they indicate as to what those men looked for, and THEN simply follow THEIR SAME practice.

In the above passage, as in the ones that immediately follow it, for example, it is obvious that Daniel is not only going by the Law and the Prophets or "the books" - but in accordance with some sort of a Time Line, and so on.

Not only that; if you know your history, you know those "books" were actually Scrolls.

So much for merely relying on a translation.

Also, you'll find that where you yourself ARE crystal clear on one thing or another, that is because you YOURSELF have INADVERTENTLY followed the above, same, BASIC Principle.

As in Nehemia 8:20; and Luke 24:44; etc.

There is a pattern of properly studying a thing out in Scripture, in accordance with Certain Basic Rules behind sound Reading Comprehension that passages like those illustrate those men were basically following.

In fact, actually, over relying on dictionaries and or one translation or another, is the mark of the newbie.

It is obvious throughout the Scripture that such had not been the practice of the more astute, back then - that their practice back then, is all that is needed now also.

Consider this here - all probably said in the same language, back then. Why then did it go right past them - what had been their obvious failure?

What, within the above basic principle, had they failed to follow?

John 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. 11:12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. 11:13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. 11:14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

Rom. 5:8; 14:5.
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
Yes, "shall be" was before they heard the gospel and received the Holy Spirit.

Yes, that is it

Romans 10:9-10

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

When a person believes they receive and when they confess it is their salvation

Until then it is only an available promise for them to claim
 

DAN P

Well-known member
There is only one body and the Jews were taught about it first.

Jesus explained to the Jews to drink his blood and eat his flesh. That IS about being in his body.



Hi and that is not the Body of Christ that Paul has written about !!

Compare what you wrote to Rom 7;4 and no one comes into the B O C as written in Matt
26:17-29 !!

The Matt 26 passage is a Jewish Feast Day in verse verse 17 , THE PASSOVER , so are you Jewish ??

In verse 29 mwill not drink the fruit of the vine until that day I drink it a new in my Father's kingdom !!

In verse 28 it is the NEW COVENANT and the B O C is not a new covenant assembly !!

Paulmin 1 Cor 12:13 msays that only one way to enter the B O C is by the Holy Spirit and many did not now nwhat the Holy Spirit is , Acts 19:2 !!

dan p
 

Right Divider

Body part
We both read the same passages and each come up with a different understandings of the state of Israel. I guess we can leave it at that for now.

Thanks for the discussion!
I've enjoyed your tone and hoped that I could help you.

You've expressed interest in learning and I had hoped that you would. Continue to compare scripture with scripture and eventually, you will see things that differ.

Acts 3:21 (AKJV/PCE)
(3:21) Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Rom 16:25 (AKJV/PCE)
(16:25) Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
I don't know of any other way to be saved than the gospel. Is there another?
We are partakers by the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 3:6 KJV) while Israel will only be partakers if they hold the beginning of their confidence stedfast unto the end (Hebrews 3:14 KJV). Ours is trusting His faith (Galatians 2:16 KJV, Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV) while theirs is a trial of their own (James 2:20 KJV, 2 Peter 1:7 KJV).
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
We are partakers by the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 3:6 KJV) while Israel will only be partakers if they hold the beginning of their confidence stedfast unto the end (Hebrews 3:14 KJV). Ours is trusting His faith (Galatians 2:16 KJV, Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV) while theirs is a trial of their own (James 2:20 KJV, 1 Pete 1:9 KJV).

Ah, just what I was talking about in Dan's thread. :think:
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
I am honest with myself when I study scripture and I do my very best to make sure they all fit together. I see harmony with all. I don't really see thing that differ. Maybe you can help me see from your perspective.
You mean you explain away passages that are contrary to one another. Acts 10:35 KJV vs. Titus 3:5 KJV is one when not believing what it says and to whom must be explained away by those who make the Bible a one pot meal to all. I showed you a huge difference in salvation between that of Peters and of ours and you don't see any differences? Impossible for someone who claims he is being honest with themselves and the scriptures.
 

God's Truth

New member
Their salvation is future looking forward to the blotting out of sins (Acts 3:19-21 KJV) While we look back to the cross having now received the atonement (Romans 5:11 KJV).

No, Jesus already came and does that for everyone now. When he comes again he won't be coming to bear sins.
 

God's Truth

New member
Hi and that is not the Body of Christ that Paul has written about !!

Compare what you wrote to Rom 7;4 and no one comes into the B O C as written in Matt
26:17-29 !!

The Matt 26 passage is a Jewish Feast Day in verse verse 17 , THE PASSOVER , so are you Jewish ??

In verse 29 mwill not drink the fruit of the vine until that day I drink it a new in my Father's kingdom !!

In verse 28 it is the NEW COVENANT and the B O C is not a new covenant assembly !!

Paulmin 1 Cor 12:13 msays that only one way to enter the B O C is by the Holy Spirit and many did not now nwhat the Holy Spirit is , Acts 19:2 !!

dan p

You are wrong. When Jesus came he taught the Jews how to get in him and how he will be in them.
 
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