ECT Who is saved?

[heir]

good day, dear.

not for you unless you trust the Lord believing 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV as the all sufficient work of your salvation...dear.

2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

2 Thessalonians 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[heir]

You cannot be saved, believing as you do.

Morelike, believing not "as you do"...

2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

[heir]

No, I always neg JWs.

:chuckle:

 

[heir]

Where is the lie in what she wrote?

We do not "have to repent of our sins to be forgiven for our sins." Forgiveness of sins was 2000 years ago when "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them" (2 Corinthians 5:19 KJV).

 

[DAN P]

No one made Cornelius and anyone in his household get circumcised!

Hi and in Romans , Cornelius was already CIRCUMCISED before he met Peter !!

dan p

 

[DAN P]

Paul spent three days without drinking and eating begging for forgiveness.

Acts 9:9 For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything.

11 ... for he is praying.

Hi and where in Acts 9:9 is Paul PRAYING FOR FORGIVENESS ??

The only verse that I se Paul is PRAYING is in verse 11 !!

If I missed that , show me where OR do you like to add to verses against Paul ??

dan p

 

[turbosixx]

Fellow-heirs with CHRIST.

Rom 8:17 (AKJV/PCE)​

(8:17) And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together. ​

You will not find that in the OT.

I agree.

Paul did not say "fulfill the law" in Colossians. He said fulfill the WORD OF GOD. He is referring to scripture.

The way I understand Paul is talking about fulfilling his ministry in preaching it to the Gentiles.
Col. 1:25 of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God that was given to me for you, to make the word of God fully known,

Like he says here:
Rom. 15:16 to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the priestly service of the gospel of God, so that the offering of the Gentiles may be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit. 17 In Christ Jesus, then, I have reason to be proud of my work for God. 18 For I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me to bring the Gentiles to obedience—by word and deed, 19 by the power of signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God—so that from Jerusalem and all the way around to Illyricum I have fulfilled the ministry of the gospel of Christ;

I don't see how a man can complete God's word other than revealing it but I don't see anything Paul revealed that wasn't already revealed.

 

[God's Truth]

Indeed, Paul was given the manifold wisdom of God.

Eph 3:7-12 (AKJV/PCE)​

(3:7) Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. (3:8) Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; (3:9) And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: (3:10) To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly [places] might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, (3:11) According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: (3:12) In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him. ​

So much so that he could "fulfill the word of God".

Col 1:25-29 (AKJV/PCE)​

(1:25) Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; (1:26) [Even] the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: (1:27) To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: (1:28) Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: (1:29) Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily. ​

​

There was something missing from the word of God that Paul completed. Something that was "hid in God" from the beginning of the world.

Churchianity has the unfortunate habit of reading Paul's revelation back into the writings that came before, instead of understanding them as the actual revelation that they were.

Something that was missing from the WORD YOU SAY?!!! Paul COMPLETED the WORD?!!!

I can hardly believe that you said that, and then you have the nerve to make Paul the responsible party for your misunderstanding.

 

[God's Truth]

I am keeping that ^ from RightDivider. How can anyone live that down if not by REPENTING? Help yourself, RD, and repent for saying that.

 

[God's Truth]

No, it hasn't been done.
Christ's work on the cross and resurrection provides for and assures that it will in the future be done.

You are wrong!

Christ's BODY reconciled all things to him.


Ephesians 2:16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.

Colossians 1:22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—

Act 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

That Acts scripture IS speaking about WHAT ALREADY HAPPENED when Jesus came the first time!

 

[Right Divider]

I agree.

Cool

The way I understand Paul is talking about fulfilling his ministry in preaching it to the Gentiles.
Col. 1:25 of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God that was given to me for you, to make the word of God fully known,

Which "translation" are you using?

The Bible says to fulfill the word of God.

Like he says here:
Rom. 15:16 to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the priestly service of the gospel of God, so that the offering of the Gentiles may be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit. 17 In Christ Jesus, then, I have reason to be proud of my work for God. 18 For I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me to bring the Gentiles to obedience—by word and deed, 19 by the power of signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God—so that from Jerusalem and all the way around to Illyricum I have fulfilled the ministry of the gospel of Christ;

I don't see how a man can complete God's word other than revealing it but I don't see anything Paul revealed that wasn't already revealed.

You agreed that being made join-heirs with Christ was not found in the OT, but now you're saying that it was already revealed?

God gave Paul revelation of things HID IN GOD.... that means that NOBODY knew those things until it was revealed to Paul. Paul did NOT keep it a secret, but revealed it to others.

 

[God's Truth]

Cool


Which "translation" are you using?

The Bible says to fulfill the word of God.


You agreed that being made join-heirs with Christ was not found in the OT, but now you're saying that it was already revealed?

God gave Paul revelation of things HID IN GOD.... that means that NOBODY knew those things until it was revealed to Paul. Paul did NOT keep it a secret, but revealed it to others.

There were people who knew! The Gentiles did not know but there were Jews who knew!

The Samaritan woman at the well.

John the baptizer.

This is PETER speaking about GENTILES can be saved too:

Acts 10:43 All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."


Jesus preached it:

Luke 24:46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things.


Luke 24:47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

2 Samuel 22:50 Therefore I will praise you, LORD, among the nations; I will sing the praises of your name.

Psalm 117:1 Praise the LORD, all you nations; extol him, all you peoples.

Apostle Paul even quotes Psalm 117:1 to let the Gentiles know that it was said in the Old Testament that they would be brought near to God one day.

Romans 15:11 And again, "Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles; let all the peoples extol him."

Psalm 66:4 All the earth bows down to you; they sing praise to you, they sing the praises of your name."

John 4:42 They said to the woman, “We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world.”

John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, takes away the sin of the world!

1 John 2:2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

 

[turbosixx]

Which "translation" are you using?

I use a few. I like word for word translations and I usually start with ESV but I will look at others to get a better understanding.

You agreed that being made join-heirs with Christ was not found in the OT, but now you're saying that it was already revealed?

God gave Paul revelation of things HID IN GOD.... that means that NOBODY knew those things until it was revealed to Paul. Paul did NOT keep it a secret, but revealed it to others.

If you could be specific on what Paul received that no one else did that would help.

Peter was the first to preach the gospel to the Gentiles.
Acts 11: 14 he will declare to you a message by which you will be saved, you and all your household.’ 15 As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them just as on us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 If then God gave the same gift to them as he gave to us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God's way?” 18 When they heard these things they fell silent. And they glorified God, saying, “Then to the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life.”

 

[Right Divider]

I use a few. I like word for word translations and I usually start with ESV but I will look at others to get a better understanding.

Some "translations" are just pure garbage, so be careful with translation hopping. The NIV is a total piece of trash.

If you could be specific on what Paul received that no one else did that would help.

I thought that you had already agreed that the mystery of Christ (joint-heirs) was not revealed before Paul.

Peter was the first to preach the gospel to the Gentiles.
Acts 11: 14 he will declare to you a message by which you will be saved, you and all your household.’ 15 As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them just as on us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 If then God gave the same gift to them as he gave to us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God's way?” 18 When they heard these things they fell silent. And they glorified God, saying, “Then to the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life.”

Firstly, how do you know that Paul was not already "preaching the gospel" to Gentiles? Paul was called and began his ministry in Acts 9 (which is before both Acts 10 and Acts 11). Don't forget that the Bible declares that the first ones called Christians were in Antioch and not Jerusalem, Acts 11:26.

Don't confuse "gospel" with salvation. There are many of both in the Bible and if you confuse them, you'll be confused. Also be reminded that God always allowed Gentiles to join with Israel, that was not something new. That Gentiles could be saved apart from Israel and their covenants, that was something new and only revealed to Paul.

 

[turbosixx]

Some "translations" are just pure garbage, so be careful with translation hopping. The NIV is a total piece of trash.

I don't disagree.

I thought that you had already agreed that the mystery of Christ (joint-heirs) was not revealed before Paul.

Must of been some miscommunication. I'll go back and look at it.

Firstly, how do you know that Paul was not already "preaching the gospel" to Gentiles? Paul was called and began his ministry in Acts 9 (which is before both Acts 10 and Acts 11).

I'd be willing to see any evidence you might have but off the top of my head when he did go to Gentiles I believe Barnabas name was listed first.

Don't confuse "gospel" with salvation. There are many of both in the Bible and if you confuse them, you'll be confused. Also be reminded that God always allowed Gentiles to join with Israel, that was not something new. That Gentiles could be saved apart from Israel and their covenants, that was something new and only revealed to Paul.

Passage says saved.

 

[Right Divider]

I'd be willing to see any evidence you might have but off the top of my head when he did go to Gentiles I believe Barnabas name was listed first.

Barnabas joined with Saul/Paul.

Acts 11:22-26 (AKJV/PCE)​

(11:22) ¶ Then tidings of these things came unto the ears of the church which was in Jerusalem: and they sent forth Barnabas, that he should go as far as Antioch. (11:23) Who, when he came, and had seen the grace of God, was glad, and exhorted them all, that with purpose of heart they would cleave unto the Lord. (11:24) For he was a good man, and full of the Holy Ghost and of faith: and much people was added unto the Lord. (11:25) Then departed Barnabas to Tarsus, for to seek Saul: (11:26) And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch. ​

Why did Barnabas "seek Saul"?

Don't you find it strange that the first people called Christians, according to the Bible, were in Syria and not Israel?

Passage says saved.

Once again, saved is not always talking about eternal life.

Luke 1:68-75 (AKJV/PCE)​

(1:68) Blessed [be] the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, (1:69) And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; (1:70) As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: (1:71) That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; (1:72) To perform the mercy [promised] to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; (1:73) The oath which he sware to our father Abraham, (1:74) That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear, (1:75) In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.
​

Who are "his people"? What is the "horn of salvation" referring to? What is the "house of David"?

 

[turbosixx]

Barnabas joined with Saul/Paul.

Acts 11:22-26 (AKJV/PCE)​

(11:22) ¶ Then tidings of these things came unto the ears of the church which was in Jerusalem: and they sent forth Barnabas, that he should go as far as Antioch. (11:23) Who, when he came, and had seen the grace of God, was glad, and exhorted them all, that with purpose of heart they would cleave unto the Lord. (11:24) For he was a good man, and full of the Holy Ghost and of faith: and much people was added unto the Lord. (11:25) Then departed Barnabas to Tarsus, for to seek Saul: (11:26) And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch. ​

Why did Barnabas "seek Saul"?

He was preaching Jesus to the Jews.

Don't you find it strange that the first people called Christians, according to the Bible, were in Syria and not Israel?

No

Once again, saved is not always talking about eternal life.

Luke 1:68-75 (AKJV/PCE)​

(1:68) Blessed [be] the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, (1:69) And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; (1:70) As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: (1:71) That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; (1:72) To perform the mercy [promised] to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; (1:73) The oath which he sware to our father Abraham, (1:74) That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear, (1:75) In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.
​

How are "his people"? What is the "horn of salvation" referring to? What is the "house of David"?

That is before the D,B&R. In the passage of Peter preaching to Cornelius it is eternal life. If not, what saved is it?

 

[Right Divider]

He was preaching Jesus to the Jews.

I don't understand this response.

No

You should.

That is before the D,B&R. In the passage of Peter preaching to Cornelius it is eternal life. If not, what saved is it?

I was just trying to make the point that "saved" is not always referring to the same thing (and neither is 'gospel').

I can see that it's really hard for you to leave those things that you were told before.

 

[turbosixx]

I was just trying to make the point that "saved" is not always referring to the same thing (and neither is 'gospel').

I can see that it's really hard for you to leave those things that you were told before.

I understand your point but I fail to see how it disproves Peter preached salvation to them.

 

[God's Truth]

I was just trying to make the point that "saved" is not always referring to the same thing (and neither is 'gospel').

I can see that it's really hard for you to leave those things that you were told before.

Yikes. I can't believe you preach like that and about things that just are not so.