ECT Who is saved?

musterion

Well-known member
James was warning of a faith that is alive, valid, genuine, only if those he wrote to demonstrated it by work.

No work, no faith, James warned them. For them, faith without work was dead as a corpse, James said.

Paul, who wrote far more about faith than James did, said nothing like that. He did teach much about belief vs unbelief, truth vs lies, being intended by God to do good work...but Paul said nothing about faith that is dead unless there's work to prove the faith is real.

Paul did not tie faith to work the way James did. There's a reason for that.
 
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Cross Reference

New member
James was warning of a faith that is alive, valid, genuine, only if those he wrote to demonstrated it by work.

No work, no faith, James warned them. For them, faith without works was dead as a corpse, James said.

Paul, who wrote far more about faith than James did, said nothing about faith that's dead because it has no works. He did teach much about belief vs unbelief, truth vs lies, being intended to do good works, but nothing about faith that is dead without works to prove it's real. Paul didn't tie them together the way James did. There's a reason for that.

The reason is, "works" from our flesh have to be "Authored" by God and not ourselves without presumption or self-righteousness "mixed in". What is unifiyingly purposed to come from us is HIS life revealed in our disposition. Without HIS Faith orchestrating our "disposition", our faith is dead.

Hence we read from Paul that He lived by the very FAITH OF THE SON OF GOD. HIS LIFE.

Gal 2:20 KJV.
 

musterion

Well-known member
The reason is, "works" from our flesh have to be "Authored" by God and not ourselves without presumption or self-righteousness "mixed in". What is unifiyingly purposed to come from us is HIS life revealed in our disposition. Without HIS Faith orchestrating our "disposition", our faith is dead.

Hence we read from Paul that He lived by the very FAITH OF THE SON OF GOD. HIS LIFE.

Gal 2:20 KJV.

wut
 

Faither

BANNED
Banned
The reason is, "works" from our flesh have to be "Authored" by God and not ourselves without presumption or self-righteousness "mixed in". What is unifiyingly purposed to come from us is HIS life revealed in our disposition. Without HIS Faith orchestrating our "disposition", our faith is dead.

Hence we read from Paul that He lived by the very FAITH OF THE SON OF GOD. HIS LIFE.

Gal 2:20 KJV.

Great reply cross !
 

Right Divider

Body part
I know you keeping saying there are many gospels but it might help me if you can tell me how this one is a different gospel.
Firstly, gospel simply means GOOD NEWS. Churchianity has tried to make GOSPEL a magic word that can have only one meaning, but that is simply not the case.

When the Bible uses the language construct "the gospel OF", it is explaining the GOOD NEWS OF something in particular. For example the gospel OF THE KINGDOM, is the GOOD NEWS about the kingdom (particularly that it was "at hand", i.e., near, coming soon). The coming of the kingdom was described throughout the prophets of Israel and was no secret to those that heard Jesus proclaim THIS GOOD NEWS.

The kingdom that Israel's prophets proclaimed had various characteristics which can be seen through their scriptural writings:
  • A King (the LORD Jesus Christ)
  • A Throne in Jerusalem (David's throne)
  • A Land (the land that God promised to Israel)
  • A Capital City (Jerusalem)
  • The list goes on and on.
The GOOD NEWS of the grace of God is something different and was NOT made known until it was given to Paul. This happened through Israel's temporary fall and not through their rise as prophecy had proclaimed. Romans 9-11 explains this very clearly, though Churchianity has confused this in the extreme.

Here, for example, Paul makes it crystal clear that Israel will be restored:

Rom 11:15 (AKJV/PCE)
(11:15) For if the casting away of them [be] the reconciling of the world, what [shall] the receiving [of them be], but life from the dead?

Paul is NOT talking about individual resurrection, but is talking about THEM as a nation being received.

Going off what it says, it tells us which gospel Paul is talking about. It's the gospel of God that he was set apart for and it was promised before hand through the scriptures.
Rom. 1:1 Paul, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated to the gospel of God 2 which He promised before through His prophets in the Holy Scriptures,
Then he calls it the gospel of Christ that has the power to save.
Rom. 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ,[a] for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

Paul tells the Galatians that the gospel of Christ is not to be perverted.
Gal. 1:6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.
No GOOD NEWS from God should ever be perverted.

Luke 14:16 Then He said to him, “A certain man gave a great supper and invited many, 17 and sent his servant at supper time to say to those who were invited, ‘Come, for all things are now ready.’ 18 But they all with one accord began to make excuses. The first said to him, ‘I have bought a piece of ground, and I must go and see it. I ask you to have me excused.’ 19 And another said, ‘I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I am going to test them. I ask you to have me excused.’ 20 Still another said, ‘I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.’ 21 So that servant came and reported these things to his master. Then the master of the house, being angry, said to his servant, ‘Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in here the poor and the maimed and the lame and the blind.’ 22 And the servant said, ‘Master, it is done as you commanded, and still there is room.’ 23 Then the master said to the servant, ‘Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled. 24 For I say to you that none of those men who were invited shall taste my supper.’”

I would suggest this is the gospel being proclaimed. If you do not agree, what does it mean to you?
The gospel of the kingdom, sure.

The gospel of the kingdom included healing everyone.

Matt 10:5-8 (AKJV/PCE)
(10:5) These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not: (10:6) But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (10:7) And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. (10:8) Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

If you're going to preach the gospel of the kingdom, you'd better be healing and raising the dead. Take note that that is precisely what Peter and the eleven did.

Acts 5:12-16 (AKJV/PCE)
(5:12) ¶ And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch. (5:13) And of the rest durst no man join himself to them: but the people magnified them. (5:14) And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.) (5:15) Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid [them] on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them. (5:16) There came also a multitude [out] of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.

Acts 9:36-42 (AKJV/PCE)
(9:36) ¶ Now there was at Joppa a certain disciple named Tabitha, which by interpretation is called Dorcas: this woman was full of good works and almsdeeds which she did. (9:37) And it came to pass in those days, that she was sick, and died: whom when they had washed, they laid [her] in an upper chamber. (9:38) And forasmuch as Lydda was nigh to Joppa, and the disciples had heard that Peter was there, they sent unto him two men, desiring [him] that he would not delay to come to them. (9:39) Then Peter arose and went with them. When he was come, they brought him into the upper chamber: and all the widows stood by him weeping, and shewing the coats and garments which Dorcas made, while she was with them. (9:40) But Peter put them all forth, and kneeled down, and prayed; and turning [him] to the body said, Tabitha, arise. And she opened her eyes: and when she saw Peter, she sat up. (9:41) And he gave her [his] hand, and lifted her up, and when he had called the saints and widows, presented her alive. (9:42) And it was known throughout all Joppa; and many believed in the Lord.

Are you following in Peter's footsteps?
 
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God's Truth

New member
Firstly, gospel simply means GOOD NEWS.
Gospel means GOOD NEWS ABOUT JESUS.


Churchianity has tried to make GOSPEL a magic word that can have only one meaning, but that is simply not the case.

When the Bible uses the language construct "the gospel OF", it is explaining the GOOD NEW OF something in particular. For example the gospel OF THE KINGDOM, is the GOOD NEWS about the kingdom (particularly that it was "at hand", i.e., near, coming soon). The coming of the kingdom was described throughout the prophets of Israel and was no secret to those that heard Jesus proclaim THIS GOOD NEWS.
No, it is about the one and only good news, Jesus Christ.

The kingdom that Israel's prophets proclaimed had various characteristics which can be seen through their scriptural writings:
  • A King (the LORD Jesus Christ)
  • A Throne in Jerusalem (David's throne)
  • A Land (the land that God promised to Israel)
  • A Capital City (Jerusalem)
  • The list goes on and on.
The throne of David is a throne over Israel.

Jesus is sitting now on the throne over Israel.

The GOOD NEWS of the grace of God is something different and was NOT made known until it was given to Paul.

Unbelievable.

Jesus is the good news.

This happened through Israel's temporary fall and not through their rise as prophecy had proclaimed. Romans 9-11 explains this very clearly, though Churchianity has confused this in the extreme.
God doesn't care about blood relations anymore, only those who come to Jesus' blood. See John 1:13.

Here, for example, Paul makes it crystal clear that Israel will be restored:

Rom 11:15 (AKJV/PCE)
(11:15) For if the casting away of them [be] the reconciling of the world, what [shall] the receiving [of them be], but life from the dead?

Paul is NOT talking about individual resurrection, but is talking about THEM as a nation being received.
All Israel will be saved is not about every Jews being saved, it is about all Jews not being cut off and hardened forever, because God cut off unbelieving Jews while Jesus walked the earth and hardened them.

No GOOD NEWS from God should ever be perverted.


The gospel of the kingdom, sure.

The gospel of the kingdom included healing everyone.

Matt 10:5-8 (AKJV/PCE)
(10:5) These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not: (10:6) But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (10:7) And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. (10:8) Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

If you're going to preach the gospel of the kingdom, you'd better be healing and raising the dead. Take note that that is precisely what Peter and the eleven did.

Acts 5:12-16 (AKJV/PCE)
(5:12) ¶ And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch. (5:13) And of the rest durst no man join himself to them: but the people magnified them. (5:14) And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.) (5:15) Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid [them] on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them. (5:16) There came also a multitude [out] of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.

Acts 9:36-42 (AKJV/PCE)
(9:36) ¶ Now there was at Joppa a certain disciple named Tabitha, which by interpretation is called Dorcas: this woman was full of good works and almsdeeds which she did. (9:37) And it came to pass in those days, that she was sick, and died: whom when they had washed, they laid [her] in an upper chamber. (9:38) And forasmuch as Lydda was nigh to Joppa, and the disciples had heard that Peter was there, they sent unto him two men, desiring [him] that he would not delay to come to them. (9:39) Then Peter arose and went with them. When he was come, they brought him into the upper chamber: and all the widows stood by him weeping, and shewing the coats and garments which Dorcas made, while she was with them. (9:40) But Peter put them all forth, and kneeled down, and prayed; and turning [him] to the body said, Tabitha, arise. And she opened her eyes: and when she saw Peter, she sat up. (9:41) And he gave her [his] hand, and lifted her up, and when he had called the saints and widows, presented her alive. (9:42) And it was known throughout all Joppa; and many believed in the Lord.

Are you following in Peter's footsteps?

Paul healed and raised the dead too, it is how God testified to what they said as being truth.
That was during the laying of the foundation. The foundation has been laid and God already testified.
 

God's Truth

New member
I can hardly believe that RD does not know that the gospel, the good news, the kingdom of heaven, etc, it is about Jesus.

Acts 5:42
Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Messiah.

Acts 8:12
But when they believed Philip as he proclaimed the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ,they were baptized, both men and women.

Acts 8:35
Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus.

Acts 10:36
You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, announcing the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.

Acts 11:20
Some of them, however, men from Cyprus and Cyrene, went to Antioch and began to speak to Greeks also, telling them the good news about the Lord Jesus.

Mark 1:1
[ John the Baptist Prepares the Way ] The beginning of the good news about Jesus the Messiah, the Son of God,
 

Right Divider

Body part
Gospel means GOOD NEWS ABOUT JESUS.
Gospel means good news. There many "good news'" in the Bible. Not that you would know anything about the Bible.

No, it is about the one and only good news, Jesus Christ.
You are dumb, as per your usual.

The throne of David is a throne over Israel.
No kidding. Who said otherwise?

Jesus is sitting now on the throne over Israel.
Nope.

Matt 25:31-33 (AKJV/PCE)
(25:31) ¶ When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: (25:32) And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats: (25:33) And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

Unbelievable.
To an unbeliever like you, of course it is.

Jesus is the good news.
There are many good news' in the Bible.

God doesn't care about blood relations anymore, only those who come to Jesus' blood. See John 1:13.

All Israel will be saved is not about every Jews being saved, it is about all Jews not being cut off and hardened forever, because God cut off unbelieving Jews while Jesus walked the earth and hardened them.

Paul healed and raised the dead too, it is who God testified to what they said as being truth.
That was during the laying of the foundation. The foundation has been laid and God already testified.
Your complete lack of understand of why there were TWELVE apostles that will sit on TWELVE thrones judging the TWELVE tribes of Israel is duly noted.

When the New Jerusalem comes down, why does Paul get snubbed?

Rev 21:12-14 (AKJV/PCE)
(21:12) And had a wall great and high, [and] had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are [the names] of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: (21:13) On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. (21:14) And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
 

God's Truth

New member
I can hardly believe that RD doesn't know that Paul raised the dead and did many miracles.

God testified to the one and only gospel by allowing the apostles to do miraculous things.


Hebrews 2:4
God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.

Acts 14:3 So Paul and Barnabas spent considerable time there, speaking boldly for the Lord, who confirmed the message of his grace by enabling them to perform signs and wonders.

Mark 6:7 Calling the Twelve to him, he began to send them out two by two and gave them authority over impure spirits.

Matthew 10:1
Jesus called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out impure spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.
 

Right Divider

Body part
I can hardly believe that RD does not know that the gospel, the good news, the kingdom of heaven, etc, it is about Jesus.

Acts 5:42
Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Messiah.

Acts 8:12
But when they believed Philip as he proclaimed the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ,they were baptized, both men and women.

Acts 8:35
Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus.

Acts 10:36
You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, announcing the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.

Acts 11:20
Some of them, however, men from Cyprus and Cyrene, went to Antioch and began to speak to Greeks also, telling them the good news about the Lord Jesus.

Mark 1:1
[ John the Baptist Prepares the Way ] The beginning of the good news about Jesus the Messiah, the Son of God,
I know about ALL the good news in the Bible.
 

God's Truth

New member
Gospel means good news. There many "good news'" in the Bible. Not that you would know anything about the Bible.


You are dumb, as per your usual.


No kidding. Who said otherwise?


Nope.

Matt 25:31-33 (AKJV/PCE)
(25:31) ¶ When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: (25:32) And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats: (25:33) And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.


To an unbeliever like you, of course it is.


There are many good news' in the Bible.


Your complete lack of understand of why there were TWELVE apostles that will sit on TWELVE thrones judging the TWELVE tribes of Israel is duly noted.

When the New Jerusalem comes down, why does Paul get snubbed?

Rev 21:12-14 (AKJV/PCE)
(21:12) And had a wall great and high, [and] had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are [the names] of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: (21:13) On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. (21:14) And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

I already gave you scriptures saying JESUS is the good news.

Paul is not snubbed, he is one unnaturally born and the saved with him will judge.

1 Corinthians 6:3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!

1 Corinthians 15:8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.


Paul was one an apostle unnaturally born meaning he wasn't with Christ from the beginning as the other apostles were.
 

God's Truth

New member
RD seems to think that Jesus is going to give up the Greatest Throne there is for some earthly throne.

Jesus is ruling now.


The House of Jacob is the Israelites. They are the blood descendants of Jacob, the Jewish nation.

The Jews wanted an earthly king.

1 Samuel 8:7 6But the thing was displeasing in the sight of Samuel when they said, "Give us a king to judge us." And Samuel prayed to the LORD. 7The LORD said to Samuel, "Listen to the voice of the people in regard to all that they say to you, for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected Me from being king over them. 8"Like all the deeds which they have done since the day that I brought them up from Egypt even to this day-- in that they have forsaken Me and served other gods-- so they are doing to you also.

1 Samuel 8:19Nevertheless, the people refused to listen to the voice of Samuel, and they said, "No, but there shall be a king over us

20that we also may be like all the nations, that our king may judge us and go out before us and fight our battles."


This throne was a throne of the kingdom of God.


1 Chronicles 28:5 Of all my sons--and the LORD has given me many--he has chosen my son Solomon to sit on the throne of the kingdom of the LORD over Israel.


This was the last time there was an earthly king over God's kingdom:

Ezekiel 21:25 “…and thou, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Remove the diadem, and take off the crown: this shall not be the same: exalt him that is low, and abase him that is high. I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him.”


Jesus is the righteous one who would set on the throne.

Isaiah 16:5“And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.”

Amos 9:11“In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:”

So we see from the scriptures that the earthly throne of Israel was actually God's throne.

We can see from the scriptures that the Jews wanted a man to sit on that throne.

That does not negate the truth being that THAT THRONE David end up having was God's throne, but on earth because that is what the Jews wanted. They rejected God and chose an earthly king.

Jesus is the righteous one who is NOW SITTING on that throne.

When Jesus comes again, he it will be at the resurrection of the dead.

That is the last judgment and when all enemies are put under him.

THEN the NEW JERUSALEM will come down on the NEW EARTH---and Jesus HANDS OVER THE KINGDOM to the Father.

Jesus is Ruler of everything, not just over an earthly Israel.
 

Right Divider

Body part
I already gave you scriptures saying JESUS is the good news.

Paul is not snubbed, he is one unnaturally born and the saved with him will judge.

1 Corinthians 6:3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!

1 Corinthians 15:8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

Paul was one an apostle unnaturally born meaning he wasn't with Christ from the beginning as the other apostles were.
Yep.... there's a division that you have no clue about.
 
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