ECT Who is saved?

[Right Divider]

Come again? I am not mystified. Seems you don't understand what he wrote that you need someone to explain it to you. As I said: If you are born again, the mystery is solved. You will know because you will understand what it means to be born again. . . . . You didn't say whether or not you are born again. Are you? Do you know what happens when one is born again?

The mystery that you asked about is found in Ephesians and yet you have not yet identified it.

 

[Cross Reference]

The mystery that you asked about is found in Ephesians and yet you have not yet identified it.

G'bye, RD. Have a nice day.

 

[Danoh]

So no one ever had the Spirit of God in them before?

You are so ignorant that you don't even know you quoted Paul as saying something no one else knew; however, Paul was quoting the old testament scripture in Isaiah.

Isaiah 64:4
For from days of old they have not heard or perceived by ear, Nor has the eye seen a God besides You, Who acts in behalf of the one who waits for Him.

Lol - who said no one had the Spirit of God in them before - who even mentioned any of that - other than you, there?

Time to re-address some issues your mis-fire brings up...

As I've noted before, you have some sort of a reading comprehension problem.

And the sooner you consider that might actually be true, the sooner you can begin to take steps towards addressing it, and towards freeing yourself from its obvious disabling effects on your ability to arrive at the actually intended sense of another's words - including my words here.

In this, you are no better off then the so called "MADs" on here.

They too read all sorts of things into Paul that he is not asserting.

And they too prove thin-skinned, easily take offense, and resort to insults when their erroneous conclusions are pointed out to them.

Get to work on getting that out of your way already, GT.

At least consider the possibility I might actually be pointing the above out to you in your best interest.

As for Paul's quoting of Isaiah in 1 Cor. 2; he is merely making use of Isaiah's words there as a figure of speech.

His "But as it is written" is in the same sense as our modern day "as the saying goes."

He often does that.

And it throws you off; and Interplanner; and various others; including various of the so called "MADs" on here.

Paul is not even talking about the same things Isaiah was talking about.

Isaiah had been referring to information concerning Israel's even now yet future glory that was hidden in Isaiah's day.

Information later Israelite prophets would have more about revealed unto them than Isaiah had known.

In contrast, Paul is actually talking about once kept hidden information concerning the Body's glory; which is A New Creature altogether.

The Body of Christ is not Israel. And Israel.is not the Body of Christ.

And Paul at times various of Israel's prophets words as a figure of speech.

Because figures of speech tend to convey a principle common within two nevertheless different contexts - towards reminding one's intended audience of a general principle they are already familiar with from its truth within a previous, different context.

Sort of like when two people are talking about some problem with their supervisor at work, and one of them says "yeah, but as the the old saying goes - ya can't fight city hall..."

Well you and your brand of reading "comprehension" on TOL are concluding that conversation is actually about city hall...

It is not. It is citing that as a means of communicating a principle both contexts share in common.

"But as it is written" - "don't throw the baby out with the water."

No, not an actual baby. Nor actual water.

Same principle - different context.

You have taken Paul's quote of Isaiah there, literally - but he was citing Isaiah as a figure of speech.

He does that kind of thing often.

And a failure to see that has resulted in this hybrid confusion being promoted on here by various people on here, as "MAD."

It is not.

Thus, their silly questions when attempting to prove their confusion is valid to an actual Acts 9 MAD, as if an actual Acts 9 MAD is looking at things from within their obvious incompetence at the most basic of rules of grammar.

Said hybrids as MADs, GT; are just like you.

Which is both lamentable and amusing.

Now watch you both conclude some other conclusion, altogether...once more.

Rom. 5:8.

 

[God's Truth]

Lol - who said no one had the Spirit of God in them before - who even mentioned any of that - other than you, there?

Time to re-address some issues your mis-fire brings up...

As I've noted before, you have some sort of a reading comprehension problem.

And the sooner you consider that might actually be true, the sooner you can begin to take steps towards addressing it, and towards freeing yourself from its obvious disabling effects on your ability to arrive at the actually intended sense of another's words - including my words here.

In this, you are no better off then the so called "MADs" on here.

They too read all sorts of things into Paul that he is not asserting.

And they too prove thin-skinned, easily take offense, and resort to insults when their erroneous conclusions are pointed out to them.

Get to work on getting that out of your way already, GT.

At least consider the possibility I might actually be pointing the above out to you in your best interest.

As for Paul's quoting of Isaiah in 1 Cor. 2; he is merely making use of Isaiah's words there as a figure of speech.

His "But as it is written" is in the same sense as our modern day "as the saying goes."

He often does that.

And it throws you off; and Interplanner; and various others; including various of the so called "MADs" on here.

Paul is not even talking about the same things Isaiah was talking about.

Isaiah had been referring to information concerning Israel's even now yet future glory that was hidden in Isaiah's day.

Information later Israelite prophets would have more about revealed unto them than Isaiah had known.

In contrast, Paul is actually talking about once kept hidden information concerning the Body's glory; which is A New Creature altogether.

The Body of Christ is not Israel. And Israel.is not the Body of Christ.

And Paul at times various of Israel's prophets words as a figure of speech.

Because figures of speech tend to convey a principle common within two nevertheless different contexts - towards reminding one's intended audience of a general principle they are already familiar with from its truth within a previous, different context.

Sort of like when two people are talking about some problem with their supervisor at work, and one of them says "yeah, but as the the old saying goes - ya can't fight city hall..."

Well you and your brand of reading "comprehension" on TOL are concluding that conversation is actually about city hall...

It is not. It is citing that as a means of communicating a principle both contexts share in common.

"But as it is written" - "don't throw the baby out with the water."

No, not an actual baby. Nor actual water.

Same principle - different context.

You have taken Paul's quote of Isaiah there, literally - but he was citing Isaiah as a figure of speech.

He does that kind of thing often.

And a failure to see that has resulted in this hybrid confusion being promoted on here by various people on here, as "MAD."

It is not.

Thus, their silly questions when attempting to prove their confusion is valid to an actual Acts 9 MAD, as if an actual Acts 9 MAD is looking at things from within their obvious incompetence at the most basic of rules of grammar.

Said hybrids as MADs, GT; are just like you.

Which is both lamentable and amusing.

Now watch you both conclude some other conclusion, altogether...once more.

Rom. 5:8.

Do you really expect me to read all that personal opinion? Maybe later, maybe never.

 

[turbosixx]

I hope that someday you'll step back from the system of Churchianity and take the Bible for what it actually says.

I don't agree with a lot of what mainstream Christianity believes because it doesn't agree with scripture.

The mystery of Christ was NOT found in scripture until the LORD Jesus Christ gave it to Paul to put there.

I believe what was hid can be found in scripture before Paul.

Paul says the gospel he was set apart for was promised by the prophets through the scriptures.
Rom. 1:1 Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, 2 which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy Scriptures,

Jesus revealed it in parables.
Matt. 13:34 All these things Jesus said to the crowds in parables; indeed, he said nothing to them without a parable. 35 This was to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet:
“I will open my mouth in parables;
I will utter what has been hidden since the foundation of the world.”

 

[Right Divider]

I don't agree with a lot of what mainstream Christianity believes because it doesn't agree with scripture.

That's a very good start. I hope that you really continue down that path.

I believe what was hid can be found in scripture before Paul.

HID IN GOD is definitely NOT found in scripture before Paul.

Paul says the gospel he was set apart for was promised by the prophets through the scriptures.
Rom. 1:1 Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, 2 which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy Scriptures,

Once again there are MANY gospels in the Bible. Don't try to make them all the exact same thing or you'll be just as confused as many people here and in Churchianity.

Jesus revealed it in parables.
Matt. 13:34 All these things Jesus said to the crowds in parables; indeed, he said nothing to them without a parable. 35 This was to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet:
“I will open my mouth in parables;
I will utter what has been hidden since the foundation of the world.”

So many just ASSUME that these are the SAME things. How about some proof that they are?

Note that one of Paul's assignments from God was to "fulfill the Word of God", (i.e., complete). There were some things yet missing from the scriptures until Paul added them.

Col 1:25-29 (AKJV/PCE)​

(1:25) Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; (1:26) [Even] the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: (1:27) To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: (1:28) Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: (1:29) Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily. ​

Not that I'm a Greek expert, but the Greek word used in that passage for "fulfill" is 'pleroo'

G4137 πληρόω pleroo (plee-ro'-ō) v.​

1. to fully, completely fill.​

2. (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow).​

3. (figuratively) to fully supply, satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.​

[from G4134]​

KJV: accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply ​

Root(s): G4134 ​

Something was missing fro the scripture and the LORD Jesus Christ gave it to Paul to complete.

 

[turbosixx]

Once again there are MANY gospels in the Bible. Don't try to make them all the exact same thing or you'll be just as confused as many people here and in Churchianity.

I know you keeping saying there are many gospels but it might help me if you can tell me how this one is a different gospel.

Going off what it says, it tells us which gospel Paul is talking about. It's the gospel of God that he was set apart for and it was promised before hand through the scriptures.
Rom. 1:1 Paul, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated to the gospel of God 2 which He promised before through His prophets in the Holy Scriptures,
Then he calls it the gospel of Christ that has the power to save.
Rom. 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ,[a] for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

Paul tells the Galatians that the gospel of Christ is not to be perverted.
Gal. 1:6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.

So many just ASSUME that these are the SAME things. How about some proof that they are?

Luke 14:16 Then He said to him, “A certain man gave a great supper and invited many, 17 and sent his servant at supper time to say to those who were invited, ‘Come, for all things are now ready.’ 18 But they all with one accord began to make excuses. The first said to him, ‘I have bought a piece of ground, and I must go and see it. I ask you to have me excused.’ 19 And another said, ‘I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I am going to test them. I ask you to have me excused.’ 20 Still another said, ‘I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.’ 21 So that servant came and reported these things to his master. Then the master of the house, being angry, said to his servant, ‘Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in here the poor and the maimed and the lame and the blind.’ 22 And the servant said, ‘Master, it is done as you commanded, and still there is room.’ 23 Then the master said to the servant, ‘Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled. 24 For I say to you that none of those men who were invited shall taste my supper.’”

I would suggest this is the gospel being proclaimed. If you do not agree, what does it mean to you?

 

[heir]

Rubbish; you simply expect any MAD not holding to your errors to keep their mouths shut - even as you openly accuse any MADs who do not hold your errors as being "enemies."

It is one thing to hold understandings different from others MADs, but that is not your great shame - yours is that you are an extremist in every sense of that word.

You are right in your own fool mind.

Fool mind in that you insist any one who points out your errors to you, or calls you and your pals on your double-talk to others, is being divisive.

That is just your screwed up religiously rigid personality - it has nothing to do with whether your views are sound or not.

Those are two different issues, clueless.

I owe you no such "fellowship."

Rom. 5:8.

:blabla:

 

[heir]

It is in the Old Testament scriptures that the Gentiles would be included. Paul even quotes the scriptures from the Old Testament saying so.

Not these Gentiles (Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV)! Read it again~!

 

[heir]

GT - heir meant prior Gentiles with other, later Gentiles :chuckle:

Rom. 5:8.

Those who were out (Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV) are the Gentiles to whom Paul was given the dispensation of the grace of God toward versus those Gentiles he was committed a dispensation of the gospel (1 Corinthians 9:17 KJV) who were in (Galatians 3:29 KJV). Things that were different were not the same. Only a wrong divider tries to make them the same. If the shoe fits...

 

[God's Truth]

Not these Gentiles (Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV)! Read it again~!

Those Gentiles being saved is proof that you are wrong.

 

[God's Truth]

Actually, those who were out (Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV) are the Gentiles to whom Paul was given the dispensation of the grace of God toward versus those Gentiles he was committed a dispensation of the gospel (1 Corinthians 9:17 KJV) who were in (Galatians 3:29 KJV). Things that were different were not the same.

Jesus is grace, FULL OF GRACE. Jesus came with grace.

That is scripture.

Luke 2:40 And the child grew and became strong; he was filled with wisdom, and the grace of God was on him.

John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 1:16 Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given.

John 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Revelation 1:4 [ Greetings and Doxology ] John, To the seven churches in the province of Asia: Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne,

Revelation 22:21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people. Amen.

 

[heir]

Yep - several of them (not all MADs on here, though).

PTL!

 

[heir]

I was joking about it, but that is what she and some of her pals on here are rambling on about - two different kinds of Gentiles as the fellow heirs in that passage.

Rom. 5:8.

You betcha, to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery. Too bad you are not on board.

 

[heir]

There was much truth said in that jest.

Yes, that there are two Gentiles to whom Paul was first sent and those later sent. They were different...Some were in the covenants of promise, while others strangers from them.

 

[heir]

I have heard it myself and, strange how the ones saying it don't step up and claim it.

I claim it all day, every day with scripture. These (Galatians 3:29 KJV) were different than these (Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV). Only a person who doesn't believe the bible says they were the same.

 

[God's Truth]

Acts 10:43 All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."


That is about Gentiles too.


Luke 24:46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things.


The scripture said all nations.

It was prophesied that Gentiles would be saved.

Luke 24:47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

2 Samuel 22:50 Therefore I will praise you, LORD, among the nations; I will sing the praises of your name.

Psalm 117:1 Praise the LORD, all you nations; extol him, all you peoples.

Apostle Paul even quotes Psalm 117:1 to let the Gentiles know that it was said in the Old Testament that they would be brought near to God one day.

Romans 15:11 And again, "Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles; let all the peoples extol him."

Psalm 66:4 All the earth bows down to you; they sing praise to you, they sing the praises of your name."

John 4:42 They said to the woman, “We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world.”

John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, takes away the sin of the world!

1 John 2:2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

 

[heir]

I just want to know what is his definition of grace. Then we can look at dispensations.

Grace is the antithesis of works.

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

 

[God's Truth]

Prophecies of Jesus fulfilled, as shown by Gentiles believing in God---


Paul is quoting Psalm 18:49: and 2 Samuel 22:50 Therefore I will praise you, LORD, among the nations; I will sing the praises of your name.

Romans 15:9
so that the Gentiles may glorify God for His mercy. As it is written: "Therefore I will praise You among the Gentiles; I will sing hymns to Your name."


This is Paul speaking about Isaiah:


Romans 15:12 And again, Isaiah says, "The Root of Jesse will spring up, one who will arise to rule over the nations; in him the Gentiles will hope."


Paul speaking about the Gentiles and quoting the OLD TESTAMENT:


Romans 15:11 And again, "Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles; let all the peoples extol him."

Psalm 117:1Praise the LORD, all nations; Laud Him, all peoples!



Read this Old Testament scripture, it is quoted in the New Testament:


2 Samuel 22:50 Therefore I will praise you, LORD, among the nations; I will sing the praises of your name.

Romans 15:9 and, moreover, that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy. As it is written: "Therefore I will praise you among the Gentiles; I will sing the praises of your name."


...And these scriptures:


Romans 15:11 And again, "Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles; let all the peoples extol him."

Psalm 117:1 Praise the LORD, all you nations; extol him, all you peoples.

Psalm 66:4 All the earth bows down to you; they sing praise to you, they sing the praises of your name."


How can you say not these Gentiles when Paul QUOTES the OLD TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES to the saved under grace Gentiles?

 

[God's Truth]

Grace is the antithesis of works.

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Faith, belief---without right action, works---it is DEAD.

Dead faith is not the most important faith ever known, it does nothing, it does not justify, it does not make righteous, it does not sanctify, it does not save,not in any way, because, it, is, dead.