Who is a Jew or the nation Israel

[Interplanner]

God now dealing with another 'nation' (Mt 21) which is an intriguing play on the term 'ethnos'. God does not favor any of the existing 'ethnos' but the people in his Gospel's mission are one!

 

[OCTOBER23]

1 ¶ What advantage then hath the Jew?

Romans 3:2 Much every way: because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

28 he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart,

in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ:

for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth;

to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil,

of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

 

[Interplanner]

Yes v28 meshes nicely with Mt 21 on 'ethnos.'

 

[daqq]

Hi to you also.

I agree with you. Also I agree with the KJV N.T.verses which you quoted.

The critical question is: Who are "the lost sheep of the house of Israel"?

It absolutely important to discern exactly who are: "the lost sheep of the house of Israel".

The Lord confirmed:

The 'house of Israel' describes people who are under the law. They were under the curse of the law.

The Lord came to redeem them from the curse of the law.

Therefore "the lost sheep of the house of Israel" are those who were under the law, sin and punishment in hell. They are the lost because they were under the law, sin and punishment in hell and there is no salvation and deliverance under that system.

The Lord came to redeem them by introducing them to righteousness of God that is without the law, sin and punishment in hell. This is through His Spirit (the New Covenant).




The Lord came to justify the transgression of the Ten Commandments.

"The lost sheep of the house of Israel" are [SIZE=+2]not[/SIZE] those were not of the house of Israel. Quite to the contrary. The exact opposite is correct.

"The lost sheep of the house of Israel" were and continue to be all people in Israel. They have denounced the Lord and His New Covenant which is "righteousness of God that is without the law".

They denied, persecuted, tortured, blasphemed and aided the crucifixion of the Lord Jesus because he sought to introduce them and others to "righteousness of God that is without the law".

The house of Israel wanted to and continued to remain under the law, sin and punishment in hell . . . under which all sin and fall short of the glory of God. They wanted to and did stay under the curse of the law, sin and punishment in hell. This made them all "lost sheep of the house of Israel". They (Israel) were all the lost sheep of Israel and they all remained the lost sheep of Israel.


You asked that we stick to revelations in the KJV N.T. Please be forthright.

Please quote the verse in the KJV N.T. where the word, "Yeshua" appears?



You are well advise to drop the law, sin and punishment in hell and embrace "righteousness of God that is without the law" before it is too late and you are sent to hell for transgression of the law.

Only people of Israel and similar others who esteem the law, goes to hell, with Satan.

Ah, yes, the smell of fire and brimstone judgment in the morning, how can anyone do without it? But when and where did I ask "that we stick to revelations in the KJV N.T."?? I do not recall ever suggesting any such thing, in fact, did you not see the three other translations I quoted from the same passage? As for being "under the law" have you ever actually been "under" the law? I can surely tell that you have not so please yourself also be forthright. :crackup:

You apparently missed the part where Paul tells you that the Law is your "schoolmaster" to lead you to Messiah, (is it okay with you if I say Messiah instead of Christ? or will that send me plummeting into the gaping jaws of hell also?). If you would only have continued reading in that passage you would see that every child, though he or she be master of all, is "under tutors and governors" until the Bar Mitzvah, (the time appointed of the Father) when the child becomes a son:

Here is the King Jimmy and his court version for your viewing pleasure:

Galatians 3:24-29 KJV
24. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Galatians 4:1-2 KJV
1. Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
2. But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

Yes, tutors and governors: Torah, Prophets, Writings, (kings, i.e. David, Psalms). If your time appointed of the Father has not yet come then neither has your final immersion my hell fire friend, (because before you can recieve the Promise you must first do the will of God, Hebrews 10:36 KJV, 1 Thessalonians 4:3-4 KJV).

Hebrews 10:35-39 KJV
35. Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
36. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37. For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
38. Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Ah yes, those hasty Chaldeans that march through the breadth of the land, to possess the dwelling places that are not their own, (for the man is the house). They are terrible and dreadful: their judgment and their dignity proceeds of themselves. Their horses are swifter than leopards and more fierce than the evening wolves: their horsemen spread themselves, and come from far, they fly as the eagle hasting to devour the prey. They come all for violence: their faces sup up as the east wind as they gather the captivity as the sand. They scoff at kings such as yourself, O king, and the princes they scorn: they shall deride every one of your strong holds, O king. Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, that the one who reads it may run. For the vision is yet for the appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie; though it tarry, wait for it, for it will surely come, and when it does it will not tarry: for the Master has said to that one already, for a sign, "What you do, do quickly", (John 13:27) and he knows that he has but a short time. In the End of that day we shall see who is a joint-heir and son having put on Messiah by faith, (if indeed you overcome in your appointed time). :chuckle:

 

[Interplanner]

Ah, yes, the smell of fire and brimstone judgment in the morning, how can anyone do without it? But when and where did I ask "that we stick to revelations in the KJV N.T."?? I do not recall ever suggesting any such thing, in fact, did you not see the three other translations I quoted from the same passage? As for being "under the law" have you ever actually been "under" the law? I can surely tell that you have not so please yourself also be forthright. :crackup:

You apparently missed the part where Paul tells you that the Law is your "schoolmaster" to lead you to Messiah, (is it okay with you if I say Messiah instead of Christ? or will that send me plummeting into the gaping jaws of hell also?). If you would only have continued reading in that passage you would see that every child, though he or she be master of all, is "under tutors and governors" until the Bar Mitzvah, (the time appointed of the Father) when the child becomes a son:

Here is the King Jimmy and his court version for your viewing pleasure:

Galatians 3:24-29 KJV
24. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Galatians 4:1-2 KJV
1. Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
2. But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

Yes, tutors and governors: Torah, Prophets, Writings, (kings, i.e. David, Psalms). If your time appointed of the Father has not yet come then neither has your final immersion my hell fire friend, (because before you can recieve the Promise you must first do the will of God, Hebrews 10:36 KJV, 1 Thessalonians 4:3-4 KJV).

Hebrews 10:35-39 KJV
35. Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
36. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37. For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
38. Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Ah yes, those hasty Chaldeans that march through the breadth of the land, to possess the dwelling places that are not their own, (for the man is the house). They are terrible and dreadful: their judgment and their dignity proceeds of themselves. Their horses are swifter than leopards and more fierce than the evening wolves: their horsemen spread themselves, and come from far, they fly as the eagle hasting to devour the prey. They come all for violence: their faces sup up as the east wind as they gather the captivity as the sand. They scoff at kings such as yourself, O king, and the princes they scorn: they shall deride every one of your strong holds, O king. Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, that the one who reads it may run. For the vision is yet for the appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie; though it tarry, wait for it, for it will surely come, and when it does it will not tarry: for the Master has said to that one already, for a sign, "What you do, do quickly", (John 13:27) and he knows that he has but a short time. In the End of that day we shall see who is a joint-heir and son having put on Messiah by faith, (if indeed you overcome in your appointed time). :chuckle:

In one line, what is your final paragraph about?

 

[daqq]

In one line, what is your final paragraph about?

Is it not you Inter who was always touting Acts 13 in the "other" forum? You already know the drill or at least I know this was already said to you before because it was me who said it to you. Do you not know that your body is the house-temple of God and you are no more your own? This therefore applies to anyone who defiles the temple of God:

Acts 13:40-41 KJV
40. Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets;
41. Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you [Habakkuk 1:5].

Context, context, context! (Habakkuk 1 & 2) and this was said in Antioch Pisidia: it applies to everyone here. Hopefully you do not need to be told what things can defile you, (see the same passage I started with in the discussion with Gurucam, Matthew 15:18-20). :crackup:

 

[CherubRam]

The term Jew applied to all peoples of the world who worshiped the God of Abraham. The mission of the faith has always been to convert the nations to the faith.

The word "Jew" was a nickname assigned by the Babylonians to anyone who either lived in or came from the area of Judea.

A Jew is a convert to Judaism, and the Hebrews are an ethnic group of people.

Contrary to popular belief, Jews are not a race, but an assembly of people. Hebrews are a race.

A Hebrew may or may not be a Jew.

Esther 8:17
In every province and in every city, wherever the edict of the king went, there was joy and gladness among the Jews, with feasting and celebrating. And many people of other nationalities became Jews because fear of the Jews had seized them.

Zechariah 11:10
Then I took my staff called Favor and broke it, revoking the covenant I had made with all the nations.

 

[CherubRam]

The word “Jew” has become a negative connotation, which has led most people to conclude that it should not be utilized in polite conversation.
However, it is very interesting to note that it is the fulfillment of Isaiah 65:15, and even more interesting is the fact that no one is trying to fulfill that verse.


Isaiah 65:15
You will leave your name to my chosen ones as a curse; the Sovereign LORD will put you to death, but to his servants he will give another name.

Isaiah 65:15
You will leave your name for my chosen ones to use in their curses; the Sovereign LORD will put you to death, but to his servants he will give another name.

Negative connotations for the word “Jew.”
Jew.
Noun:
1. Someone of the Jewish persuasion.
2. A derogatory term for someone who is dishonest, miserly or generally regarded as not being a gentleman.

Verb:
1. To cheat, defraud, dishonest, demanding, liar, thief, sneaky.
2. To expend an excessive amount of time and effort to negotiate the lowest price for something when an ordinary person would be ashamed to do so.
3. An association with those who killed the Messiah. yehu'di or yehu'diy for Jew was used during the life of Jeremiah.

The word "Jew" (in Hebrew, "Yehudi") is derived from the name Judah, which was the name of one of Jacob's twelve sons.

For about two thousand years the word Jew has been used in a negative way.

 

[Gurucam]

Ah, yes, the smell of fire and brimstone judgment in the morning, how can anyone do without it? But when and where did I ask "that we stick to revelations in the KJV N.T."?? I do not recall ever suggesting any such thing, in fact, did you not see the three other translations I quoted from the same passage? As for being "under the law" have you ever actually been "under" the law? I can surely tell that you have not so please yourself also be forthright. :crackup:

You apparently missed the part where Paul tells you that the Law is your "schoolmaster" to lead you to Messiah, (is it okay with you if I say Messiah instead of Christ? or will that send me plummeting into the gaping jaws of hell also?). If you would only have continued reading in that passage you would see that every child, though he or she be master of all, is "under tutors and governors" until the Bar Mitzvah, (the time appointed of the Father) when the child becomes a son:

Here is the King Jimmy and his court version for your viewing pleasure:

Galatians 3:24-29 KJV
24. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Galatians 4:1-2 KJV
1. Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
2. But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

Yes, tutors and governors: Torah, Prophets, Writings, (kings, i.e. David, Psalms). If your time appointed of the Father has not yet come then neither has your final immersion my hell fire friend, (because before you can recieve the Promise you must first do the will of God, Hebrews 10:36 KJV, 1 Thessalonians 4:3-4 KJV).

Hebrews 10:35-39 KJV
35. Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
36. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37. For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
38. Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Ah yes, those hasty Chaldeans that march through the breadth of the land, to possess the dwelling places that are not their own, (for the man is the house). They are terrible and dreadful: their judgment and their dignity proceeds of themselves. Their horses are swifter than leopards and more fierce than the evening wolves: their horsemen spread themselves, and come from far, they fly as the eagle hasting to devour the prey. They come all for violence: their faces sup up as the east wind as they gather the captivity as the sand. They scoff at kings such as yourself, O king, and the princes they scorn: they shall deride every one of your strong holds, O king. Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, that the one who reads it may run. For the vision is yet for the appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie; though it tarry, wait for it, for it will surely come, and when it does it will not tarry: for the Master has said to that one already, for a sign, "What you do, do quickly", (John 13:27) and he knows that he has but a short time. In the End of that day we shall see who is a joint-heir and son having put on Messiah by faith, (if indeed you overcome in your appointed time). :chuckle:

1.) You did not say: "that we stick to revelations in the KJV N.T."??

Sorry, I corrected that post a while back.

2.) You said: 'You apparently missed the part where Paul tells you that the Law is your "schoolmaster" to lead you to Messiah,'

Paul said no such thing.

Galatians 3 KJV N.T.
24. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

'bring one onto Christ' is a state, not a messiah. This to be 'in Christ' or to be a Christian. This is to be a child of God.

Galatians: 3 KJV N.T.
26. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Also being 'justified by faith' is a justification not a messiah.

This justification is confirmed simply and clearly in the following:

Acts: 13 KJV N.T.
39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

The entire revelation is about throwing away the law when one becomes a Christian.

Before we go further, are we good with the above? Are we in agreement with the few things stated in this post?

 

[Interplanner]

You did not say: "that we stick to revelations in the KJV N.T."??

Sorry, I corrected that post a while back.

You said: 'You apparently missed the part where Paul tells you that the Law is your "schoolmaster" to lead you to Messiah,'

Paul said no such thing.

Are you saying Gal 3:23--4:7 does not exist or is not 'accepted'? Even Hebrews says it is about elementary things that were 'types' or 'shadows' not the reality itself.

 

[Gurucam]

Are you saying Gal 3:23--4:7 does not exist or is not 'accepted'? Even Hebrews says it is about elementary things that were 'types' or 'shadows' not the reality itself.

All verses in the KJV N.T. are literally correct and valid.

However, in order to get a feel for your forthrightness, I asked (in post # 89) that you responded to the following rather simple and straight forward question:

I have transferred this post to my thread.

click here:

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4534169#post4534169

 

[daqq]

All verses in the KJV N.T. are literally correct and valid.

However, in order to get a feel for your forthrightness, I asked (in post # 89) that you responded to the following rather simple and straight forward question:

I have transferred this post to my thread.

click here:

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4534169#post4534169

και κατεβησαν προς αυτον και προσηυξατο ελισαιε προς κυριον και ειπεν παταξον δη τουτο το εθνος αορασια και επαταξεν αυτους αορασια κατα το ρημα ελισαιε

 

[Ben Masada]

The term Jew applied to all peoples of the world who worshiped the God of Abraham. The mission of the faith has always been to convert the nations to the faith.

The word "Jew" was a nickname assigned by the Babylonians to anyone who either lived in or came from the area of Judea.

A Jew is a convert to Judaism, and the Hebrews are an ethnic group of people.

Contrary to popular belief, Jews are not a race, but an assembly of people. Hebrews are a race.

A Hebrew may or may not be a Jew.

Esther 8:17
In every province and in every city, wherever the edict of the king went, there was joy and gladness among the Jews, with feasting and celebrating. And many people of other nationalities became Jews because fear of the Jews had seized them.

Zechariah 11:10
Then I took my staff called Favor and broke it, revoking the covenant I had made with all the nations.

Read post #96

 

[RBBI]

I like that....

 

[CherubRam]

Many Jews are so puffed up with pride that they can not see beyond their arrogance.

Esther 8:17
In every province and in every city to which the edict of the king came, there was joy and gladness among the Jews, with feasting and celebrating. And many people of other nationalities became Jews because fear of the Jews had seized them.

 

[Ben Masada]

The word “Jew” has become a negative connotation, which has led most people to conclude that it should not be utilized in polite conversation. However, it is very interesting to note that it is the fulfillment of Isaiah 65:15, and even more interesting is the fact that no one is trying to fulfill that verse.

Isaiah 65:15 You will leave your name to my chosen ones as a curse; the Sovereign LORD will put you to death, but to his servants he will give another name.

Isaiah 65:15 You will leave your name for my chosen ones to use in their curses; the Sovereign LORD will put you to death, but to his servants he will give another name.

Negative connotations for the word “Jew.”
Jew.Noun:
1. Someone of the Jewish persuasion.
2. A derogatory term for someone who is dishonest, miserly or generally regarded as not being a gentleman.

Verb:
1. To cheat, defraud, dishonest, demanding, liar, thief, sneaky.
2. To expend an excessive amount of time and effort to negotiate the lowest price for something when an ordinary person would be ashamed to do so.
3. An association with those who killed the Messiah. yehu'di or yehu'diy for Jew was used during the life of Jeremiah.

The word "Jew" (in Hebrew, "Yehudi") is derived from the name Judah, which was the name of one of Jacob's twelve sons.

For about two thousand years the word Jew has been used in a negative way.

And here is the reason for all of the above:

THE ESSAY OF MARK TWAIN ABOUT THE JEWS

"If the statistics are right, the Jews constitute but one percent of the human race. It suggests a nebulous dim puff of star dust lost in the blaze of the Milky Way.

Properly the Jew ought hardly to be heard of, but he is heard of, has always been heard of. He is as prominent on the planet as any other people, and his commercial importance is extravagantly out of proportion to the smallness of his bulk.

His contributions to the world's list of great names in literature, science, art, music, finance, medicine, and abstruse learning are also way out of proportion to the weakness of his numbers.

He has made a marvelous fight in the world, in all the ages; and has done it with his hands tied behind him. He could be vain of himself, and be excused for it.

The Egyptian, the Babylonian, and the Persian rose, filled the planet with sound and splendor, then faded to dream-stuff and passed away; the Greek and the Roman followed suit, and made a vast noise, and they are gone. Other peoples have sprung up and held their torch high for a time, but it has burned out, and they sit either in twilight now, or have vanished.

The Jew saw them all, beat them all, and is now what he always was, exhibiting no decadence, no infirmities of age, no weakening of his parts, no slowing of his energies, no dulling of his alert and aggressive mind. All things are mortal but the Jew; all other forces pass, but he remains. What is the secret of his immortality?

Mark Twain

 

[Ben Masada]

I like that....

I knew you would. Now, read post #96 and see if you still like that.

 

[RBBI]

Maybe it's me, but I considered Mark Twain's comments to be complementary.

 

[Elia]

Esther 8:17
In every province and in every city to which the edict of the king came, there was joy and gladness among the Jews, with feasting and celebrating. And many people of other nationalities became Jews because fear of the Jews had seized them.

Bs"d

You got a problem with that?



"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".
Micah 4:5

 

[Crucible]

Esther 8:17
[...]And many people of other nationalities became Jews because fear of the Jews had seized them.

:think: