Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
OK.
when did Peter use the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven ?
- Thread starter DAN P
- Start date
Derf
Well-known member
Umm...that dizziness was coming from your doctrine.The gospels are hid from those who are lost.
"Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven...... This is the Kingdom that was preached when Jesus walked the earth, and even after He'd resurrected. Peter and the remnant still preached that the Kingdom was at hand.
Jesus was teaching the Apostles to pray while they waited for that KINGDOM ON EARTH, where Jesus would sit on David's throne. (ZION - Jerusalem) The Jews were living under Roman rule, and when their Messiah arrived, they knew the Kingdom was at hand.
Paul never preaches about the Kingdom on earth.
Ours is a spiritual kingdom. Plain and simple. Until you figure that out, you'll continue to get dizzier and dizzier as your post above makes clear.
You can only say Paul preached a different kingdom from extra-biblical knowledge. The text doesn't support it. Here, you show me the difference. Tell me without looking in your bible who was doing the speaking in each of the following:
Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, ...
Confirming the souls of the disciples, [and] exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
... speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
And he ... spake boldly ..., disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.
But when they believed [him] preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, ...
glorydaz
Well-known member
I've been thinking about this a lot lately, and what this meant to Peter, personally. Here he was following the law while Jesus walked among us. They kept all the observances, etc. The Lord's timing is so good. The messengers are on the way from Cornelius, and Peter was praying up on the house top. Then he gets hungry....the food wasn't ready. So, hungry, Peter falls into a trance, and was greeted by all these horrible unclean things that he wasn't even supposed to touch. I don't think it was just about clean and unclean animals or people, but it was that Peter was being shown that his own righteousness didn't come from the law. After all, God, Himself, gave him a perfect illustration. Take and eat. Peter was still zealous of the law, but he was seeing that it wasn't the law that saved.
Acts 10:9 On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour: 10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance, 11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: 12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. 13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. 14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
glorydaz
Well-known member
So you take a few words and want me to tell you who is talking.
You're quite the little nut job, aren't you?
Derf
Well-known member
If you want to narrow it down, just tell me which are Paul and which are someone preaching the physical kingdom.
glorydaz
Well-known member
I don't have to narrow it down. When I read the Bible, I don't jump around like a little chicken picking at grain. I actually read the content of the verses under discussion. I know you don't work that way, but that's how it works in my world.
There was an old show called, "Name that Tune" and a few notes would be played so a person could guess. A few more notes would be played. It was a fun game, and they were all really well known tunes. Go Youtube it. I'm sure it'll show up. Play that for awhile, and when you're ready to converse about the Bible, I'm here.
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I agree with your point concerning the Law, but why can't you also see that the Gentiles were also "released" from the condemnation (?), (maybe ostracism would be a better word), of the Jews?
Jew and Gentile are now one man, if in Christ.
As it is written..."But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both (Jew and Gentile) one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;" (Eph 2:13-15)
The one single gospel saves both Jew and gentile.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Why can't you see there are different messages?
Because there is only one message.
At first, that "good news" was "a Savior is coming".
Later, the "good news" was that "He has come and died for our sins and was raised from the dead".
Why do you refuse to believe that Jews can also benefit from the grace of God?
glorydaz
Well-known member
Normally, when people are conversing on a forum they don't ask a question with a false accusation.
"Loaded question" indeed.
Derf
Well-known member
Well I am glad you do believe that Jews and Gentiles a have all the same rights and privilege's, and duties, in the NT "Church by Christ Jesus (Eph 3:21)".
The doctrinal tenets of MAD seemed to be a cleaver between Jews and Gentiles.
I'm glad I was misreading it.
To be "grafted onto" the chosen people causes me much rejoicing.
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
You're not grafted onto Israel. Believing Gentiles and believing Israel are both grafted onto the Root. Gentiles are wild tree branches, while Israel are natural branches, but both are grafted on because Israel was cut off.
Did I say I was grafted onto Israel?
I said the chosen people.
What you refer to as Israel, is just a country.
What I refer to as Israel, is the children of God.
A border and a flag doesn't qualify anyone to call themselves Israelites.
And Eph 1:4 says that we are chosen ( before /eklegomai Pro ) the foundation of the world .
and Israel was chosen ( from /apo ) the foundation of the world , Matt 13:35 , a bid difference .
the body of Christ is never Grafted into Christ and when we are saved ,wwe become part of Christ who is the head and we are the body when the Holy Spirit places us into Christ 1 Cor 12:13 -27 .
dan p
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Are you writing about the political Israel or the Spiritual Israel?
All men, Gentile and Israelite, that are in Christ, were chosen before the foundation of the world.
And when the scriptures were written , only the little flock was the known ( from /apo ) as written in Matt 13:33-35 .
The gentiles are spoken about Eph 1:4 .
the n keys of the kingdom of heaven can not be used until the millennial kingdom .
dan p
Either you don't consider yourself one of Jesus' sheep, or you don't think Jewish converts were known since before the word was.
(I'm assuming you are a Gentile believer)
Agreed, but I think all converts were known since before the foundation of the world.
I don't agree, as the keys Peter and the other apostles were given have already ushered hundreds of believers into the kingdom of God, which is in our hearts.
That "rock", or key, was this..."And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." (Matt 16:16)
The church is founded on it.
It is the name we call upon at our baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
I hope you aren't one of those folks who thinks Peter is really at some pearly gates.
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
Billions.