ECT What is the true root objection to MAD?

IMJerusha

IMJerusha

New member
Cross Reference said:
Defense? You have to mean "delusional".
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Not as regards the Gospel. The doctrine?....now that's a whole different matter. As you well know, we are called to contend for the faith, for certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among us. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Yeshua our only Sovereign and Lord. This is the assumption that salvation by Grace gives the right to sin without restraint.
 
andyc

andyc

New member
Bright Raven said:
I believe that contention with MAD stems over the fact that there is a gospel to the circumcision and a gospel to the uncircumcision.
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It's the same gospel. it's just that the Jews are accepted through the front door, and gentiles through the back door, but both are fellow citizens in God household of faith in Christ.

Galatians 2:7 King James Version (KJV)

7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

If it were not so, why would scripture address it?
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The message to the Jews is, "come and accept the messiah Israel rejected". The message to gentiles is, "came and meet the messiah Israel rejected".
 
andyc

andyc

New member
IMJerusha said:
It did address it. "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28

"For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile--the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, 'Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.' " Romans 10:12-13

Any doctrine that divides Yeshua as well as the Body is off. To intimate in any way that what Yeshua taught while He walked among us is different than what He taught Paul also paints a division that He would not tolerate and casts a pall on Yeshua's integrity as Mashiach. We are either for Him or we are against Him. We don't get to divide Him and those in Him.
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That's right.
It really does stink of "I am of Paul............"
 
andyc

andyc

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Ya know, this whole thing about Paul having a different gospel is just destroyed so easily when you just read about Jesus in the gospels. He was all about forgiveness, gentleness, love, joy, long suffering, and compassion compassion compassion. Even Paul said, "imitate me as I imitate Christ".

The account of the woman caught in the act of adultery comes to mind. If she was caught in the act, it must mean that the pharisees must have pulled this woman off some guy. Talk about humiliating. And then they threw her before Jesus in order to have him uphold the law of Moses in condemning her as an adulteress. This woman stood among a crowd of judges knowing that she was in a wretched position with no positive outcome.
What happens? Jesus (the judge of all men) says to her "I don't condemn you". Now if people can't see the grace of God in this passage, they are completely blind. This woman could say as Paul said, "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered; Blessed is the man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin." And this is the point of 'righteousness of faith' that Paul is trying to get across in Romans. And Paul even goes on to explain in the next verses that this blessedness has come on the circumcised and uncircumcised (Jews and gentiles). Anyone without mad glasses on will see grace and forgiveness throughout Jesus ministry.
 
IMJerusha

IMJerusha

New member
andyc said:
Ya know, this whole thing about Paul having a different gospel is just destroyed so easily when you just read about Jesus in the gospels. He was all about forgiveness, gentleness, love, joy, long suffering, and compassion compassion compassion. Even Paul said, "imitate me as I imitate Christ".

The account of the woman caught in the act of adultery comes to mind. If she was caught in the act, it must mean that the pharisees must have pulled this woman off some guy. Talk about humiliating. And then they threw her before Jesus in order to have him uphold the law of Moses in condemning her as an adulteress. This woman stood among a crowd of judges knowing that she was in a wretched position with no positive outcome.
What happens? Jesus (the judge of all men) says to her "I don't condemn you". Now if people can't see the grace of God in this passage, they are completely blind. This woman could say as Paul said, "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered; Blessed is the man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin." And this is the point of 'righteousness of faith' that Paul is trying to get across in Romans. And Paul even goes on to explain in the next verses that this blessedness has come on the circumcised and uncircumcised (Jews and gentiles). Anyone without mad glasses on will see grace and forgiveness throughout Jesus ministry.
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Throughout Yeshua's ministry and before. God's Mercy and Grace has existed from the beginning or we wouldn't be here.

And this divisive doctrine, twisting Paul's words "my gospel", works against God's plan according to Paul. "Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord." Ephesians 2:19-21
 
IMJerusha

IMJerusha

New member
Cross Reference said:
Yes, He did. That was His only reason for coming to Earth.

Can you speak of what God's Will was?
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God's Will is to bring mankind into closer relationship with Him, wanting none of us to perish. Yeshua has freed us to be obedient to God's Will, not lawlessness; to love and serve Him as Yeshua does and to love our neighbor as He loved us.
 
PneumaPsucheSoma

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
IMJerusha said:
The Gospel was in effect from the beginning of the universe. John 1:1-5...unless, of course, you don't believe that God is in all time at all time; that He is somehow constrained by time.
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The semanticism is wearying enough with the pedantic MADs.

The cut covenant of the body and blood of Jesus Christ was not accomplished in chronological time until after the ascension and Pentecost.

(And the universe is not all of creation. God created the intangible realm as well.)
 
heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
IMJerusha said:
The Gospel was in effect from the beginning of the universe.
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vs.

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Romans 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Romans 16:27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.
 
IMJerusha

IMJerusha

New member
PneumaPsucheSoma said:
The semanticism is wearying enough with the pedantic MADs.
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Sorry...sheesh!

PneumaPsucheSoma said:
The cut covenant of the body and blood of Jesus Christ was not accomplished in chronological time until after the ascension and Pentecost.
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Well, that was accomplished with Yeshua's presence on earth unless you believe He could have/would have backed out of the deal; been disobedient. But then, He would not have been spotless.

PneumaPsucheSoma said:
(And the universe is not all of creation. God created the intangible realm as well.)
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You don't think the intangible realm is creation as well? I do but I guess I'm just weird like that. :)
 
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