ECT What is the true root objection to MAD?

[heir]

You would be a very old Gentile at this time, Heir. :chuckle:
And the funny thing is that you don't really know if you are a Gentile or a Jew courtesy of the diaspora. The blessing is that it doesn't matter because in Yeshua there are no Jews or Gentiles.

I know exactly who we "you Gentiles" were in time past and we had NADA, ZERO, ZIP to do with Israel!

Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

Ephesians 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:


But now, we are made nigh with those who first trusted in Christ beginning with Paul (1 Timothy 1:16 KJV)!

Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

It's the mystery of the gospel concerning us!

Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

It's the fellowship of the mystery!

Ephesians 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Ephesians 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Ephesians 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

Ephesians 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Ephesians 3:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

 

[heir]

John 14:20 "At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.

At the day of Pentecost, Christ would be in his disciples. The hope of glory?

You sure do like to make MUD out of the word of God. This is mystery truth given unto Paul.

Colossians 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

Colossians 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

Colossians 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:



Ephesians 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Ephesians 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

 

[heir]

You're wanting to be literal. Therefore the gentiles Paul was talking to were grafted into the olive tree, and he explained that God would not spare these gentiles if they fell into unbelief.

Now I know you will refuse to accept that this is talking about you.

The Ephesians to whom Paul wrote the letter are notGentiles who had a standing in the olive tree at one time. :nono:

 

[IMJerusha]

Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles and was later a prisoner of Jesus Christ for us Gentiles, given a dispensation of the grace of God to give to us Gentiles, if you want to get technical. Gentiles, nonetheless.

No. Paul was/is the Apostle of Yeshua...period. He didn't just evangelize Gentiles but Jews as well...anyone who would listen actually, and the same Commission applied to the rest of the Apostles as well as to every believer. Peter commented on Paul's letters and I believe MAD is exactly what he was talking about. 2Peter 3:16 Not that I believe you are unsaved but that you are following a doctrine that Paul never intended you follow.

 

[heir]

No. Paul was/is the Apostle of Yeshua...period.

Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles and yes I agree that he went to the Jew first and also to the Greek in his provoking Acts ministry. That still does not negate that he was the only apostle of the Gentiles.

 

[andyc]

The Ephesians to whom Paul wrote the letter are notGentiles who had a standing in the olive tree at one time. :nono:

Ok...now we're talking about Paul's letter to the church at Ephesus. Here we see Paul explaining how that the ceremonial law divided Jews from gentiles, which was now abolished, meaning that both are now one through faith in Christ.
And so if Paul is explaining that gentiles are now given the same opportunity that the Jews have, they are not being treated as being distinct.

 

[heir]

No. Paul was/is the Apostle of Yeshua...period. He didn't just evangelize Gentiles but Jews as well...anyone who would listen actually, and the same Commission applied to the rest of the Apostles as well as to every believer.

Let's check that, too. Here is the "Great commission"

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

At some point in Paul's ministry Christ sent him not to baptize!

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

The twelve were never sent not to baptize!

Not to mention, through Paul God would make manifest the righteousness of God without the law (Romans 3:21-22 KJV), not to mention that the gospel Paul preached was not after man (Galatians 1:11-12 KJV), kept secret since the world began until Paul (Romans 16:25-27 KJV) and the Bible tells us why (1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV).

There's no denying the differences!

 

[heir]

Ok...now we're talking about Paul's letter to the church at Ephesus. Here we see Paul explaining how that the ceremonial law divided Jews from gentiles, which was now abolished, meaning that both are now one through faith in Christ.
And so if Paul is explaining that gentiles are now given the same opportunity that the Jews have, they are not being treated as being distinct.

nope

 

[heir]

Ok...now we're talking about Paul's letter to the church at Ephesus.

You're the one that grabbed my post of Ephesians 3 and started talking about Gentiles grafter in to the olive tree.

 

[IMJerusha]

You sure do like to make MUD out of the word of God. This is mystery truth given unto Paul.

Colossians 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

Colossians 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

Colossians 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:



Ephesians 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Ephesians 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

And it would have been a mystery to Paul and every person back then. Mashiach didn't turn out to be what Paul was taught by every learned Rabbi. And while many Gentiles were believers, they too were taught the same things as all the people of God. You're taking Paul's words and exalting them where you shouldn't.

 

[heir]

Here we see Paul explaining how that the ceremonial law divided Jews from gentiles, which was now abolished, meaning that both are now one through faith in Christ.

The middle wall of partition was between Gentiles under the handwriting of ordinances and Gentiles to whom it was against and contrary to!

 

[andyc]

The middle wall of partition was between Gentiles under the handwriting of ordinances and Gentiles to whom it was against and contrary to!

It's contrary to 'human nature', which Jewish people also possess.

Acts 15:10 "Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

This is why it was abolished for Jews and gentiles. Remember Peter's vision? Kill and eat? Don't call unclean what God has cleansed?

 

[Cross Reference]

The middle wall of partition was between Gentiles under the handwriting of ordinances and Gentiles to whom it was against and contrary to!

The middle wall of partition was more importantly the veil that enclosed the Ark of the Covenant; Holy of Holies; type of actual Presence of God.

 

[heir]

And it would have been a mystery to Paul and every person back then. Mashiach didn't turn out to be what Paul was taught by every learned Rabbi. And while many Gentiles were believers, they too were taught the same things as all the people of God. You're taking Paul's words and exalting them where you shouldn't.

Ephesians and Colossians are of Paul's prison epistles written some 25 years AFTER the Lord first appeared to Paul (the Lord promised He would appear more than once to Paul Acts 26:16 KJV) and yet we see but now truth being revealed which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, preaching of unsearchable riches of Christ, the mystery of the gospel, the fellowship of the mystery which from the beginning of the world had been hid in God! It's the manifold wisdom of God according to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord being made known by the church!

 

[IMJerusha]

Marcion's doctrine was very similar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcionism

 

[andyc]

The middle wall of partition was more importantly the veil that enclosed the Ark of the Covenant; Holy of Holies; type of actual Presence of God.

I would say that it is talking about the separation between Jew and gentile. No one had access to the most holy place. What divided Jew and gentile was the ceremonial law. What keeps us from God's literal presence is our flesh.
In Christ both Jew and gentile worship God in Spirit, and this gives both access to the most holy place. The tabernacle made without hands (heaven) where Jesus remains a priest forever on our behalf.

 

[heir]

The middle wall of partition was more importantly the veil that enclosed the Ark of the Covenant; Holy of Holies; type of actual Presence of God.

The middle wall of partition should not be confused with the temple as you seem to be confusing it. Back to studying, CR!

EDIT: my bad for calling you andy, CR. I fixed it.

 

[andyc]

The middle wall of partition should not be confused with the temple as you seem to be confusing it. Back to studying, andy!

What do you think separated Jews from gentiles that was abolished?

 

[Nick M]

Therefore the gentiles Paul was talking to were grafted into the olive tree, and he explained that God would not spare these gentiles if they fell into unbelief.

It is Israel. Those gentiles already knew of the way to God, and it was through Israel. Paul was teaching them of the Body of Christ, and the fall of Israel. Those in the Kingdom had to endure to the end.

The Body of Christ is not Israel, and you know it.

Romans 11

11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.

You can not get around this, no matter how hard you spin.

 

[Cross Reference]

It is Israel. Those gentiles already knew of the way to God, and it was through Israel. Paul was teaching them of the Body of Christ, and the fall of Israel. Those in the Kingdom had to endure to the end.

The Body of Christ is not Israel, and you know it.

Romans 11

11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.

You can not get around this, no matter how hard you spin.

Why don't pay attention to what people write before to reply??