ECT What is the true root objection to MAD?

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
First, my own understanding of Mid-Acts Dispensationalism is briefly this:

God chose a nation through whom He promised to someday bless the whole earth. That nation was Israel and that choosing involved various covenants. Christ Jesus came as Israel’s promised Redeemer, and through Israel – His nation of priests – He would redeem the whole world.

The problem is, Israel rejected Him. Not every individual Jew did so but Israel corporately, as a nation, despised Him and had Him crucified by Rome. But rising from the dead and ascending into Heaven, His apostles preached that if Israel repented and believed on Him as their Messiah, He would return to establish the long-awaited Kingdom, just as God had promised and as the Old Testament prophets had foretold.

But once again, Israel refused to bow to her Messiah. After the leaders stoned Stephen to death, God temporarily set Israel aside and temporarily suspended all fulfillment of prophecy.

At that point, God began to usher in the previously unmentioned dispensation of grace, which is now in effect and will remain so until He decides to bring it to an end.

During this age of grace, salvation is no longer to the Jew first. Previously unknown blessings and riches are promised equally to Jew and Gentile alike on the simple basis of faith alone in Christ’s death, burial and resurrection for the individual’s sin, without works of any kind either to be saved, stay saved or prove that one is saved, for God knows those who are His.


That is my understanding of MAD stated as briefly as I can state it.

Now the question is, Why do people who reject MAD seem to find it more intolerable than other doctrinal systems with which they also do not agree? I have found two basic reasons.

1. They don’t really understand MAD because what they have heard is not accurate. They believe a straw man version of MAD. In response, MADs try to clarify our position but usually with limited success.

2. They do understand MAD, or enough of it to hate what it implies for their own doctrinal position. I’ve found this to be the most common of the two, at least on TOL.

When you dig deep enough, informed objections to MAD (#2 above) tend to stem from one of two related roots. The opponent to MAD believes either (a) that the Christian Church has in some sense inherited the promised blessings, signs and covenants that God made solely with, or intended only for, national Israel, or (b) that the Christian Church has replaced national Israel outright. There is usually overlap between these two positions as they do stem from the same root, but objections boil down to one or the other.

Objection (a) can be seen in the opposition to MAD by Pentecostals, charismatics, various cultists and works-oriented members of Christendom who have been deceived into adopting Israel’s deactivated covenant works or sign gifts as necessary to salvation today, or necessary to their sanctification – some version of water baptism being the #1 expression of this error. Thus very, very few within Christendom today truly believe as Paul taught, that salvation is received by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone without works. THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS but almost all opponents of MAD, if they’re honest, will admit that they believe some degree of human religious effort [works] is involved in either getting themselves saved or keeping themselves saved. According to Paul, all such are believing a false gospel (Gal 1:8-9).

Objection (b) is straightforward enough among those denominations and cults that have adopted some variation on Replacement theology, wherein it is believed God will never again deal with Israel as His nation and all of His promises (and even warnings) have already been fulfilled in the past and/or fulfilled in the Christian church; hence the foolish "Zionist" label that is sometimes thrown against MADs as well as other dispensationalists.

In my opinion, even though they claim to uphold the entirety of God's Word (which they invariably and falsely accuse MADs of not doing), those holding to either of these dual errors deny the reliability of God and His Word because He has promised to someday once again deal with the world via Christ's redeemed nation Israel. However, He will do this ONLY after He has ended this dispensation of grace wherein there is “no distinction” between Jew and Gentile. In the meantime, He is not sovereignty judging anyone for error; He is not opening the ground beneath the feet of lying teachers and false prophets. He has given His Word and His Gospel of grace. For now He has nothing more to say. Such is grace!

So while some, by God's grace, do come to see the revelation of the mystery (Eph 3:8-9), the leaven of the errors described above - taking what God intended only for Israel while rejecting all He's given to the Body of Christ, and you can't have both - can only compound, spread and grow worse as this age of grace draws to its inevitable close.

Because MAD is not Paul's Gospel, which is ontological.

Because MAD unwittingly denies the body and blood of Christ.

Because MAD presumes tangible literality and precludes spiritual literality.

Because MAD impugns God's sovereignty and assigns a failed Plan-A, etc.

But MAD is better than all the law-mongering works soteriology and rampant law methodology that has overtaken the Church at large.

Man cannot attain, retain, or maintain salvation.
 

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
How long is Mad going to ignore the Godhead?

I think it does. No orthodox Godhead, no saving Gospel.

Hm, strawmen. Since your on the correct end of the progressives, the strawmen have 2 left feet..... and check your Godhead.

I'd be interested to know exactly what you mean by these posts.

Most professing Trinitarians... aren't. And "Godhead" is English for either theotes or theiotes.
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
Because MAD is not Paul's Gospel, which is ontological.

Because MAD unwittingly denies the body and blood of Christ.

Because MAD presumes tangible literality and precludes spiritual literality.

Because MAD impugns God's sovereignty and assigns a failed Plan-A, etc.

But MAD is better than all the law-mongering works soteriology and rampant law methodology that has overtaken the Church at large.

Man cannot attain, retain, or maintain salvation.


i disagree with your first 4 statements - only if you interpret it that way. it implies nothing, unless you see implication. and your last statement is why God sent Christ. i'm not a madist, never heard of it before tol, much. just me, but i think you over complicate things. :sleep:
 

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
i disagree with your first 4 statements - only if you interpret it that way. it implies nothing, unless you see implication. and your last statement is why God sent Christ. i'm not a madist, never heard of it before tol, much. just me, but i think you over complicate things. :sleep:

Okay. Opinions vary, and you're entitled to your erroneous ones on this topic and any others.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Because MAD is not Paul's Gospel, which is ontological.

Because MAD unwittingly denies the body and blood of Christ.

Because MAD presumes tangible literality and precludes spiritual literality.

Because MAD impugns God's sovereignty and assigns a failed Plan-A, etc.

But MAD is better than all the law-mongering works soteriology and rampant law methodology that has overtaken the Church at large.

Man cannot attain, retain, or maintain salvation.

Happy to see you're still on the wrong side of logic, knowledge, and
Spiritual discernment! At least those who are members of the "Body
of Christ" KNOW who the enemies of "Paul's Gospel" are! You're
right out in the open, at least!
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
I think that was LA's point. That believers in this MAD doctrine always believe they can question the sincerity of other believers. I have never questioned your confession of Yeshua or Heir's or Tambora's. I simply leave your judgement to the One with the right to it.

Paul says that one day: (Romans 2:16) "In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel."

What does this verse mean to you?
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Y

I have not found one MADist on this board who is not rude and arrogant. It goes with the false doctrine.

I am not trying to cure you, it is impossible for you to escape your sickness because there is no room for confession of your sin in your doctrine.


LA

What about your "Predictions of death and destruction" for those
who disagree with your way of thinking? You know, beheadings,
death by fire, and being shot full of arrows? Do you consider
these, "Predictions" to be part of your preaching?
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
No, she didn't ask me what I was talking about. She violated TOL rules by cursing at me which in essence was a dare to report her which I think would have been pointless but I got my point across which is why she cursed at me. She understood perfectly as did you and if you think I'm lying about that, that is your prerogative.
You have lost your mind, lady.

What I said had ZERO to do with Knight.
I did ask what you were talking about.
I did not violate TOL rules.
There was no dare to report.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
I believe that contention with MAD stems over the fact that there is a gospel to the circumcision and a gospel to the uncircumcision.

Galatians 2:7 King James Version (KJV)

7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

If it were not so, why would scripture address it?

True!
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Hm, strawmen. Since your on the correct end of the progressives, the strawmen have 2 left feet..... and check your Godhead.

Your posts sound like a guy who really doesn't care what the
thread is all about but, out of boredom, adds some, "Nonchalant"
comment! By the way, your comments make no logical sense,
anyway! Why not go, "yawn" somewhere else, and make your
nonsensical comments? No offense, just an observation!
 

Cross Reference

New member
I believe that contention with MAD stems over the fact that there is a gospel to the circumcision and a gospel to the uncircumcision.

Galatians 2:7 King James Version (KJV)

7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

If it were not so, why would scripture address it?

Because of the rejection of Paul's preaching of it by the Jews, was it so. This was preplanned by God in order for the message of gospel given to the Jews, get out to Gentiles. Nothing more complicated than that. The reason was for God's purposed "one new man of the twain" peoples begin to happen.
 

Cross Reference

New member
I don't keep a file. If I at one time made a comment to you not being saved then it must have been because you believe that one must DO something to be saved and/or stay saved. I don't usually draw conclusions willy nilly. There must have been a reason for the conclusion. Refresh my memory. Are you saved? If so, what is the gospel of your salvation? And is there anything you had to do to be saved or stay saved? That ought to clear the air.

You should leave the room __ and shut the door behind you.
 
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