Wonderful! I was shocked at what I had thought you meant.
What is the express image of God?
- Thread starter keypurr
- Start date
Wonderful! I was shocked at what I had thought you meant.
elisabeth e
New member
I thought most Muslims believe that the Quran is in agreement with science and the natural world?
This is no longer the case?
Hi egyptianmuslim,
Thanks for sharing your holy words. I enjoy searching through the ideas, and this is one of my favorite topics.
You conclude:
And shared your proof:
From my perspective this is what I see in your verses:
... who created you (O mankind) and those who were before you
In the last phrase of Q2:21 ... I see the probability that angelic beings were created before mankind. There is evidence of this in the Christian Bible. We know that Satan was originally Lucifer ... who was a very special super-natural being with specific and special responsibilities regarding the worship of the ONE God.
Your verse does not specifically say that "those who were created before you" are "other men." The possibility is open for angels. Are there other verses within the same passages that links "other men" to "those created before"?
As I read Q2:30 I saw no mention of any "other" humans... BUT I do see a reference to "angels."
quote:
The next phrase is very interesting, but it still does not mention "other" humans. Rather the sentence talks about the reproduction of generations and generations of the same human beings that were mentioned in Q2:21.
quote
My Bible supports the truth that mankind reproduces by generation after generation, after generation ... etc.
Gen. 5:1 These are the generations of Adam
Gen. 6:9 ..... the generations of Noah
Gen. 10:1 ....the generations of the sons of
Gen. 10:32 ....the sons of Noah after their generations
Lev. 23:43 ... that your (future) generations may know that I made
All of these references refer to one generation of adults fathering future descendants. The use of "generation" does not infer "other types of human beings who didn't descend from Adam."
They (the angels) said: "Will You place therein those (men and their future descendants) who will make mischief therein and shed blood, - while we (angels) glorify You with praises and thanks (Exalted be You [O Most High God] above all[the created angels and men] that they associate with You as partners) and sanctify You." He (Allah) said (to the angels questioning Him): "I know that which you (angels) do not know."
Wow!
That last sentence is such a wonderful statement! Our scripture follows up with the answer to what it was that God knew that the Angels didn't know.
I Peter 1:3-12 (To save space, I'll try to paraphrase)
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus... who hath begotten us again unto a lively HOPE by the (demonstration of the) resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
unto an inheritance ... that fadeth not away ... (an inheritance) reserved in heaven for you (human beings).
(humans) who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation...(now since the suffering Christ are) ready to be revealed in the LAST TIME.
rejoice
that the trial of your faith ... might be found unto praise and honor and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ.
receiving the end of your faith - even the salvation of your souls.
(These were things) of salvation of which the prophets have inquired and searched ... and who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you (from God)
They (the prophets of old) searched (the truth of these things) at the time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, ... when the Spirit of Christ (long) beforehand (long before the NT times) testified of the (predicted) sufferings of the Christ, and the glory that should follow (his time of suffering.)
Unto (the past prophets) whom it (the truth) was revealed, that not unto themselves (in their day), but unto us (who live since Christ came and suffered) they (the prophets) did minister the things, (these things) which are now reported unto you by them (the disciples and followers of Jesus) that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven (by our suffering Christ); which things the angels desire to look into (or desire to investigate).
Just wow, the angels did not understand God's plan for humanity. In your own verses God said that they did not know. Their not knowing and understanding made the angels question God's reasoning by asking:
"Will You (Most High God) place therein (on earth) those (men and their future descendants) who will make mischief therein and shed blood, - while we (angels) glorify You with praises and thanks?"
Well, the angels had the hearts and behaviors of men figured out pretty good... but they did not know the plans God had for man ... Plans that are the good news of the grace God would show unto mankind - even unto the salvation of the souls of the faithful.
It amazes me that, so far, the writings you have shown me match up with verses in my Bible so well. I had no idea that this would be true.
Thanks for sharing your holy words. I enjoy searching through the ideas, and this is one of my favorite topics.
You conclude:
And shared your proof:
From my perspective this is what I see in your verses:
... who created you (O mankind) and those who were before you
In the last phrase of Q2:21 ... I see the probability that angelic beings were created before mankind. There is evidence of this in the Christian Bible. We know that Satan was originally Lucifer ... who was a very special super-natural being with specific and special responsibilities regarding the worship of the ONE God.
Your verse does not specifically say that "those who were created before you" are "other men." The possibility is open for angels. Are there other verses within the same passages that links "other men" to "those created before"?
As I read Q2:30 I saw no mention of any "other" humans... BUT I do see a reference to "angels."
quote:
The next phrase is very interesting, but it still does not mention "other" humans. Rather the sentence talks about the reproduction of generations and generations of the same human beings that were mentioned in Q2:21.
quote
My Bible supports the truth that mankind reproduces by generation after generation, after generation ... etc.
Gen. 5:1 These are the generations of Adam
Gen. 6:9 ..... the generations of Noah
Gen. 10:1 ....the generations of the sons of
Gen. 10:32 ....the sons of Noah after their generations
Lev. 23:43 ... that your (future) generations may know that I made
All of these references refer to one generation of adults fathering future descendants. The use of "generation" does not infer "other types of human beings who didn't descend from Adam."
They (the angels) said: "Will You place therein those (men and their future descendants) who will make mischief therein and shed blood, - while we (angels) glorify You with praises and thanks (Exalted be You [O Most High God] above all[the created angels and men] that they associate with You as partners) and sanctify You." He (Allah) said (to the angels questioning Him): "I know that which you (angels) do not know."
Wow!
That last sentence is such a wonderful statement! Our scripture follows up with the answer to what it was that God knew that the Angels didn't know.
I Peter 1:3-12 (To save space, I'll try to paraphrase)
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus... who hath begotten us again unto a lively HOPE by the (demonstration of the) resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
unto an inheritance ... that fadeth not away ... (an inheritance) reserved in heaven for you (human beings).
(humans) who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation...(now since the suffering Christ are) ready to be revealed in the LAST TIME.
rejoice
that the trial of your faith ... might be found unto praise and honor and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ.
receiving the end of your faith - even the salvation of your souls.
(These were things) of salvation of which the prophets have inquired and searched ... and who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you (from God)
They (the prophets of old) searched (the truth of these things) at the time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, ... when the Spirit of Christ (long) beforehand (long before the NT times) testified of the (predicted) sufferings of the Christ, and the glory that should follow (his time of suffering.)
Unto (the past prophets) whom it (the truth) was revealed, that not unto themselves (in their day), but unto us (who live since Christ came and suffered) they (the prophets) did minister the things, (these things) which are now reported unto you by them (the disciples and followers of Jesus) that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven (by our suffering Christ); which things the angels desire to look into (or desire to investigate).
Just wow, the angels did not understand God's plan for humanity. In your own verses God said that they did not know. Their not knowing and understanding made the angels question God's reasoning by asking:
"Will You (Most High God) place therein (on earth) those (men and their future descendants) who will make mischief therein and shed blood, - while we (angels) glorify You with praises and thanks?"
Well, the angels had the hearts and behaviors of men figured out pretty good... but they did not know the plans God had for man ... Plans that are the good news of the grace God would show unto mankind - even unto the salvation of the souls of the faithful.
It amazes me that, so far, the writings you have shown me match up with verses in my Bible so well. I had no idea that this would be true.
egyptianmuslim
New member
Good evening Ps82
ِThose questions tried to tell you that God did`nt create Adam in His Image, because we are in the image of Ape and some of other animals(head,neck,upper limbs,trunk, and lower limbs) this image is designed for the life on the land
1-Do you believe that God has orifices?
Muslims believe that God contains the universe and exceeds more
2-do you believe that there are borders or margins to/for God?
egyptianmuslim
New member
Quran is`nt a book of science, also God sent it primarily to uninformed bedouins, if you read all my posts here you will understand.
Elisabeth, i dont know your belief(MJ)?
egyptianmuslim
New member
Sure you know the history of Christianity and you know that thousands of people tried to explain the phenomenon of Jesus because Jesus departure was without giving any cut off/clear teachings to his followers/jews . All what you(Ps82) said is a concept like many concepts.
Hi egyptianmuslim
You shared:"Those questions I tried to tell you"
Now, according to the way I read Genesis 1 and 2 Mankind was the manifested before animals.
For me there is a difference between created and manifested.
Since we read that God used His Own WORD to speak things into being ... then Genesis 1 seems to reveal that God is calling forth things and establishing things ... setting rules of behavior ... and realms of existence and so forth.
But I don't believe that God began to manifest man, plants, and animals until Genesis 2. In that chapter God began to bring forth into visibility the things he had previously established within his spiritual essence in Gen. 1.
In Genesis 2:4,5,6,7,8,9 we are told this:
4 In the generations (the time period of producing) of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God MADE (not created but made to come forth) the earth and the heavens,
5 And every plant of the field BEFORE IT WAS IN THE EARTH, and every herb of the field BEFORE IT GREW: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and THERE WAS NOT A MAN to till the ground.
Did you see the truth?
There was a time of bringing forth/making the heavens and the earth ... and a time when there were no plants, and no men either. A time when there had been no rain upon the earth.
So ... we have the heavens and the earth and a "clean slate" for bringing forth/manifesting/or making things appear.
So, what was the order?
continued ...
FIRST:
6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
SECOND:
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground
Wow. God created the body of man right after He watered the ground... there were still no plants or animals. Watch.
THIRD
7 ... and (then God) breathed into his nostrils (that were on the body that He had formed for man) the breath of life; and (it was then that) man became a living soul.
FOURTH:
8 And the LORD God planted a garden...
Amazing: Man with a body was manifested visually before the plants were even planted! Makes me wonder [/Uwhether God had in mind that Adam would be the man to till the ground and care for those growing plants? Genesis 2:15 KJV But before God placed Adam in the Garden he manifested a few more things in this world.
FIVE, SIX, SEVEN, EIGHT... Genesis 2:914
Then came larger plants like trees, food to eat, and he brought forth rivers... and precious stones and metals ... and many other wonderful things too.
NINE:
Genesis 2:15,16 Then God put Adam within the Garden he had manifested and gave him some commands to do and not do.
TEN: Only then did God form the animals:
Genesis 2:19 Out of the ground the LORD formed every beast... etc.
According to Genesis 2 the body of man was formed before the bodies of animals... and as God manifested the animals into the visible world, he brought them to Adam to name. Genesis 2:19,20
So, I can agree with you that God created the body of men after the likeness of the parts of animals... since Adam's body came first. Genesis 1:26-27 says that God planned to give mankind a body formed after his own image and likeness.
I'd love to see your verses about the creation of the body of man.
You asked:
Surprise: No. God is an invisible spirit.
But... I do believe that the image God created that belonged just to Him, the image with which God associated himself in order to appear within his own creation unto the eyes that he gave humans ... DID have orifices!
IT had eyes, nose, ears, a mouth, arms, legs ... well, IOW, it looked like the form he gave to Adam... a male form! Only God had his image FIRST. Colossians 1:15
You believe:
I agree with you that God is infinite and "bigger than everything. In fact, I believe that all things are IN HIM and CONSISTS OF HIM. Colossians 1:16,17 He is ALL ... and ALL is in him. God did not create things out of some mystical substance called "nothing." We consist of what measures of himself he wished to share with his created beings. We can never be equal with God ... but he is able to impart unto created being by measures.
You asked:
No, not at all... BUT... within himself the invisible God has established boundaries within himself. These boundaries are established when God set certain conditions for the existence of things he planned to dwell in those conditions. Then God made laws or command unto created beings that limited them to those conditions.
Here is a quick and easy example:
God called forth LIGHT out of the deep darkness of his invisible spirit ... and later in scripture we are told that his IMAGE dwells in that unapproachable light.
Get it? The LIGHT is an established realm within God ... and His own image fits the bill for living within it.
We are later in the book of John 1:7,8,9,10 this:
John the Baptist told the world that the WORD of God, had come into the world as THAT LIGHT of the world, but the world did not recognize Him!
The reason THAT LIGHT had lost ITS glory when it came into the realm of the world is because God had established rules of existence for dwelling upon the earth as a human fleshly man ...
So, the Christ, who was to come and suffer as a man for our sake, had to give up the GLORY of THAT LIGHT and come of the essence of mortal flesh.
Thank you so much for discussing these things with me. You can tell when I become enthused, because my posts become so colorful!
You shared:"Those questions I tried to tell you"
Now, according to the way I read Genesis 1 and 2 Mankind was the manifested before animals.
For me there is a difference between created and manifested.
Since we read that God used His Own WORD to speak things into being ... then Genesis 1 seems to reveal that God is calling forth things and establishing things ... setting rules of behavior ... and realms of existence and so forth.
But I don't believe that God began to manifest man, plants, and animals until Genesis 2. In that chapter God began to bring forth into visibility the things he had previously established within his spiritual essence in Gen. 1.
In Genesis 2:4,5,6,7,8,9 we are told this:
4 In the generations (the time period of producing) of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God MADE (not created but made to come forth) the earth and the heavens,
5 And every plant of the field BEFORE IT WAS IN THE EARTH, and every herb of the field BEFORE IT GREW: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and THERE WAS NOT A MAN to till the ground.
Did you see the truth?
There was a time of bringing forth/making the heavens and the earth ... and a time when there were no plants, and no men either. A time when there had been no rain upon the earth.
So ... we have the heavens and the earth and a "clean slate" for bringing forth/manifesting/or making things appear.
So, what was the order?
continued ...
FIRST:
6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
SECOND:
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground
Wow. God created the body of man right after He watered the ground... there were still no plants or animals. Watch.
THIRD
7 ... and (then God) breathed into his nostrils (that were on the body that He had formed for man) the breath of life; and (it was then that) man became a living soul.
FOURTH:
8 And the LORD God planted a garden...
Amazing: Man with a body was manifested visually before the plants were even planted! Makes me wonder [/Uwhether God had in mind that Adam would be the man to till the ground and care for those growing plants? Genesis 2:15 KJV But before God placed Adam in the Garden he manifested a few more things in this world.
FIVE, SIX, SEVEN, EIGHT... Genesis 2:914
Then came larger plants like trees, food to eat, and he brought forth rivers... and precious stones and metals ... and many other wonderful things too.
NINE:
Genesis 2:15,16 Then God put Adam within the Garden he had manifested and gave him some commands to do and not do.
TEN: Only then did God form the animals:
Genesis 2:19 Out of the ground the LORD formed every beast... etc.
According to Genesis 2 the body of man was formed before the bodies of animals... and as God manifested the animals into the visible world, he brought them to Adam to name. Genesis 2:19,20
So, I can agree with you that God created the body of men after the likeness of the parts of animals... since Adam's body came first. Genesis 1:26-27 says that God planned to give mankind a body formed after his own image and likeness.
I'd love to see your verses about the creation of the body of man.
You asked:
Surprise: No. God is an invisible spirit.
But... I do believe that the image God created that belonged just to Him, the image with which God associated himself in order to appear within his own creation unto the eyes that he gave humans ... DID have orifices!
IT had eyes, nose, ears, a mouth, arms, legs ... well, IOW, it looked like the form he gave to Adam... a male form! Only God had his image FIRST. Colossians 1:15
You believe:
I agree with you that God is infinite and "bigger than everything. In fact, I believe that all things are IN HIM and CONSISTS OF HIM. Colossians 1:16,17 He is ALL ... and ALL is in him. God did not create things out of some mystical substance called "nothing." We consist of what measures of himself he wished to share with his created beings. We can never be equal with God ... but he is able to impart unto created being by measures.
You asked:
No, not at all... BUT... within himself the invisible God has established boundaries within himself. These boundaries are established when God set certain conditions for the existence of things he planned to dwell in those conditions. Then God made laws or command unto created beings that limited them to those conditions.
Here is a quick and easy example:
God called forth LIGHT out of the deep darkness of his invisible spirit ... and later in scripture we are told that his IMAGE dwells in that unapproachable light.
Get it? The LIGHT is an established realm within God ... and His own image fits the bill for living within it.
We are later in the book of John 1:7,8,9,10 this:
John the Baptist told the world that the WORD of God, had come into the world as THAT LIGHT of the world, but the world did not recognize Him!
The reason THAT LIGHT had lost ITS glory when it came into the realm of the world is because God had established rules of existence for dwelling upon the earth as a human fleshly man ...
So, the Christ, who was to come and suffer as a man for our sake, had to give up the GLORY of THAT LIGHT and come of the essence of mortal flesh.
Thank you so much for discussing these things with me. You can tell when I become enthused, because my posts become so colorful!
elisabeth e
New member
I know that the Quran is not a science book. Nontheless, as with the Christian bible, adherents have recently began to rush into the idea that they can validate the text by their interpretation that it aligns with science. Most of the youtube videos regarding proof of the Quran are supposed confirmations made by modern science concepts.
As to my belief, Messianic Judaism, I am not actually what most MJs would consider as an adherent. My views would likely be considered heretical and, as a highly sensitive group that does not like deviation of any kind, most MJs would not even allow me to debate in an MJ only forum, because they like to live in an echo chamber. That is also why, by and large, you will rarely run into an MJ in an open forum.
They are, however, the most appropriate label for me in this forum. This site has not offered a better label for me to use, so I use the MJ tag.
Well, it is the picture I get from reading the holy writings of the men unto whom God came with words of truth ... both the OT and NT.
You and I will probably never agree on things because I don't believe we accept each others holy writings. And from some things you have said, I'm not sure you accept all the things in your holy writings.????
It's sad that we are each looking for truth, but we aren't using the same WORD.
Even after I was able to show you that some of the verses you shared were quite compatible to verses and truths revealed within my Bible, you do not want to admit that they match.
Without common ground we cannot come to terms on what we know about God.
BUT, I've enjoyed our conversation anyway.
egyptianmuslim
New member
Yes the possibility is opened but the nearest pos. is mankind
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Q 2:30-39 tell the story of Adam, in which God told the angels that He would replace a generation other than that on the earth, the angels said "Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood ",How the Angels did know that the new generation will make mischief? , this means that the Angels expected that the new generation will be like the old one but God should place them(Angels) instead of mankind because (they"mankind" will make mischief therein and shed blood, - while we"angels" glorify You with praises and thanks ") Angels said. God said "I know that which you"Angels" do not know."
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The angels did not know that the new generation(of Adam) will be higher(intelligent) than the old one(wild) but God did know, Q 2:31. And He taught Adam all the names (of everything) , then He showed them to the angels and said, "Tell Me the names of these if you are truthful."ie Adam generation has a good memory and can talk.
The few verses you are examining seem to agree with Evolution in that it suggests that other creatures before man are the links we have to apes and all the life further down the Tree of Life from which we branched off 7 million years ago:
elisabeth e
New member
A major problem with your chart:
The genealogy in the bible is linear with only two branches and tells of a straight father-son relationship.
A chart of hominids has many branches, the relationshipe are not linear and show relationships of cousins.
You can't just photoshop biblical names into the chart. The relationships are completely distorted.
This is how the biblical genealogy is:
Your chart has Jared and Enoch as cousins, for example, as well as many other untrue relationships.
Jared is Enoch's father, not his cousin.
Wherever you are storing that image, you should right click and delete.
The genealogy in the bible is linear with only two branches and tells of a straight father-son relationship.
A chart of hominids has many branches, the relationshipe are not linear and show relationships of cousins.
You can't just photoshop biblical names into the chart. The relationships are completely distorted.
This is how the biblical genealogy is:
Your chart has Jared and Enoch as cousins, for example, as well as many other untrue relationships.
Jared is Enoch's father, not his cousin.
Wherever you are storing that image, you should right click and delete.
The few verses you are examining seem to agree with Evolution in that it suggests that other creatures before man are the links we have to apes and all the life further down the Tree of Life from which we branched off 7 million years ago:
That is not what I was suggesting. Any "other creatures" ... are to me angelic beings.
Genesis 1 and 2 reveals that the LORD God only gave commands (or set laws of behavior) for male and female to multiply and reproduce with each other. He did not add in any caveat mentioning that human's would be able to also reproduce with any other super-natural creatures like angels ... or with any natural beast like apes.
To suggest this a person would be "adding to scripture" rather than simply drawing correct conclusions from what was actually stated.
Then the image of this "god that contains the universe and exceeds more " MUST be TRUTH, an Ideal which embraces the CONCEPT that Truth is the son and corrsponding relication if the ever unfloding Reality which sires that Truth.
Hence, Allah is not one, but the father if Truthm and spirit which even men can accept mentally.
Therein was the failure oif Mohammed to understand this Trinity which even his own Koran now teaches in spite of his errors.
Angelic beings neither marry nor are given in marriages, they do not reproduce at all according to scripture:
Matthew 22:30
For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
There are two Enochs in the genealogy, one in the line of Cain and all his descendents and the other Enoch in the line of Seth.
What is understood clearly in Genesis and Science is that these two lines re-united back together when the intercourse with Neanderthals occurred as stated in Gen 6:2-4.
If you willnote the hint that two Enochs and Two Lamechs are in the genealogy, hinting to us that this was the place where we can examine the science and compare what seems to be implied factually.
14) Gen. 6:4 There were giants, (Homo Erectus of Methusaelian and Methuselahian kinds according to the bible), in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God, (that line of ascent which would not become extinct, Methuselahian links, through Seth, i.e.; Modern Homo Erectus), came in unto the daughters, (the sister species of Tubal-cain, Naamahians, a late stage Neanderthal type), of men, ("daughters" of the previous adaptation of the Methusaelian line of Cain, i.e.; Homo antecessor, derived through the line of Cain), and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men, (Neanderthals), which were of old, (powerful) men of renown (physical strength).
elisabeth e
New member
Irrelevant. Your relationships do not match either way.
And please stop posting those ridiculous pictures. I've seen them hundreds of times. They don't strengthen your argument. They make you look inept.
And please stop posting those ridiculous pictures. I've seen them hundreds of times. They don't strengthen your argument. They make you look inept.
egyptianmuslim
New member
Why are you sure that God gave them the truth(NT)?
The truth shows itself no need for holy men to show it, If we describe the image of God giving Him a name we will have many God ie if a man comes and tells to worship Mahmouda the creator of the universe which is.........., and other tells to worship Moriso the creator of the universe which is.........., and other tells to worship Sokaro the creator of the universe which is..........,
Also if God shows His image to a group of people this gives other group the right to see him or to construct their own image/idol now we will have many words of truth
Q 3:64. Say (O Muhammad ): "O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians): Come to a word that is just between us and you, that we worship none but Allah, and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords besides Allah. Then, if they turn away, say: "Bear witness that we are Muslims."
God describes Himself in Quran as a man(hand, face,emotions) but in the same time He tells that nothing is in His likeness thus muslims do`nt know the exact meaning of some part of Quran because our knowledge is limited and not comparable to that of God
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Of course there is a great match between Quran and Bible( OT and the Gospel)
The commandments of God(in Torah) and the words of Jesus(in Gospel) to the people are the most important part of Bible to me and it affects me like Quran.
God is the creator, He is One, His Characters is superior to any thing, we should do his commandments
The truth will be known completely after death.
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You asked me before about creation Of Adam
Ans:
Adam was created by the Hand of God
Q 38:75. (Allah) said: "O Iblis (Satan)! What prevents you from prostrating yourself to one whom I have created with Both My Hands. Are you too proud (to fall prostrate to Adam) or are you one of the high exalted?"
Then He gave Adam the breath of life
Q 38:71. (Remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "Truly, I am going to create man from clay".
72. So when I have fashioned him and breathed into him (his) soul created by Me, then you fall down prostrate to him."
Egyptian Muslim,
Just a quick answer to one question. I'm off to church. Why do I believe God gave man the truth?
Because I KNOW God is real, alive, and even knows what is going on in my life - even my future!
Because I believe there is a God who can do this and has shown that he is willing to have a personal relationship with me - of all people -
THEN .... I choose to trust him and believe by faith.
Just a quick answer to one question. I'm off to church. Why do I believe God gave man the truth?
Because I KNOW God is real, alive, and even knows what is going on in my life - even my future!
Because I believe there is a God who can do this and has shown that he is willing to have a personal relationship with me - of all people -
THEN .... I choose to trust him and believe by faith.
keypurr
Well-known member
Heb 1:3
(ASV) who being the effulgence of his glory, and the very image of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had made purification of sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
(BBE) Who, being the outshining of his glory, the true image of his substance, supporting all things by the word of his power, having given himself as an offering making clean from sins, took his seat at the right hand of God in heaven;
(CEV) God's Son has all the brightness of God's own glory and is like him in every way. By his own mighty word, he holds the universe together. After the Son had washed away our sins, he sat down at the right side of the glorious God in heaven.
(DRB) Who being the brightness of his glory and the figure of his substance and upholding all things by the word of his power, making purgation of sins, sitteth on the right hand of the majesty on high:
(ESV) He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
(GNB) He reflects the brightness of God's glory and is the exact likeness of God's own being, sustaining the universe with his powerful word. After achieving forgiveness for the sins of all human beings, he sat down in heaven at the right side of God, the Supreme Power.
(GW) His Son is the reflection of God's glory and the exact likeness of God's being. He holds everything together through his powerful words. After he had cleansed people from their sins, he received the highest position, the one next to the Father in heaven.
(ISV) He is the reflection of God's glory and the exact likeness of his being, and he holds everything together by his powerful word. After he had provided a cleansing from sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Highest Majesty
(KJV) Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
(NAS77) And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high;
(NASB) And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
(NET.) The Son is the radiance of his glory and the representation of his essence, and he sustains all things by his powerful word, and so when he had accomplished cleansing for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.
(NIrV) The Son is the gleaming brightness of God's glory. He is the exact likeness of God's being. He uses his powerful word to hold all things together. He provided the way for people to be made pure from sin. Then he sat down at the right hand of the King, the Majesty in heaven.
(NIV) The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.
(NKJV) who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
(NRSV) He is the reflection of God's glory and the exact imprint of God's very being, and he sustains all things by his powerful word. When he had made purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
(NRSVA) He is the reflection of God's glory and the exact imprint of God's very being, and he sustains all things by his powerful word. When he had made purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
(TNIV) The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.
GOD IS SPIRIT AND SO IS CHRIST.
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Christ is a created spirit, God's firstborn of every creature.
Learn that and the truth will unfold for you.