What is the express image of God?

[Ps82]

why not think of God as They
we are in Their Image

According to my studies and point of view, I think your question should possibly be:

Why not think of God as THEY ... and that WE are made in THEIR LIKENESS?

Because:
I do think that part of our make up is after the likeness of God ... or after the plural nature of God - "the THEM!" We have a visible aspect to us and an invisible nature as well.

To me "being created after God's ONE IMAGE" refers to man's outward visible body ... so, Adam's visible body was created after the visible form of God's own IMAGE.

Yet, the invisible nature of mankind is some how created after "the likeness of God" as well.

You see, I believe that there are at least two original aspects of our invisible nature (male and female). They were first mentioned in Gen.1 ... and it was not until later that the two of THEM were given one body to inhabit. For a time they were ONE inside that ONE body... until God brought invisible female forth and gave her her own unique body as a help meet to Adam and to bring forth children unto God.

Now the third aspect of the trinity concept does not come into the picture until we, as "God's chosen," are given the addition of the invisible spirit of God's Holy Spirit IN US. Then the trinity concept is complete.

The TWO - male and female - shall cleave together as husband and wife, father and mother, and become ONE!

A new ONE is born unto THEM. In a way, a person could look at the unborn child as a foreshadow of the hidden spirit of God IN THEM. As if the child was the foreshadow of the ONE to be born of Woman to save the world. (Just inserting here something that I ponder - Rev. 12 ... who was the child born of the woman with 12 stars on her crown?)

The Christ was THE ONE who was born of WOMAN, who was whisked away for a time... until his return ... when his BRIDE will one day be manifested (as the raptured church) and whisked away for a time for safety ... oh just pondering out loud here ...

But is it any wonder that Jesus said this from the cross?
WOMAN behold your Son! HE was THE ONE that was to enter the world through WOMAN.

Well, anyway ... our invisible nature is in some ways like the plural nature of God - (THEY, THEM, US, OUR, WE)

Where the outward male form that Adam kept is more like the ONE IMAGE belonging to God ... where the woman's body was not in the male image of God's form ... or after Adam's, but was a form of a unique fellow human being.

Adam's form was formed after the exact image of God's glory (perhaps missing some of the super-natural aspects) ... but Woman's form resembled the presence of MAN - kind's glory.

She was brought forth for MAN as a help mate to produce future children unto God. What an honor!!! It only became painful when "mortality" entered the bodies of the male and female.

Rambled a bit here ... but hope I made my point.

 

[chrysostom]

chrysostom, do you share your name-sakes hatred of the Jews? He taught it the Christian's duty to hate the Jews!

Quite a legacy for one dubbed "Golden-Mouthed"!

no I do not hate the Jews
and
you don't know what he was dealing with in his time

 

[WoundedEgo]

no I do not hate the Jews
and
you don't know what he was dealing with in his time

Save it for when you two give an account to God (Him, not Them)... I've heard it all before...

 

[Tambora]

But is it any wonder that Jesus said this from the cross?
WOMAN behold your Son! HE was THE ONE that was to enter the world through WOMAN.

The grammatical and natural flow of the verse shows that Jesus was referring to the "son" as the disciple that was standing there with Mary, and not Himself.

John 19 KJV
(26) When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
(27) Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
​

Mary was to behold the disciple as her son, and the disciple was to behold Mary as his mother.

 

[Tambora]

Save it for when you two give an account to God (Him, not Them)... I've heard it all before...

Which "him"?
Father, Son, or Holy Spirit?
All three are GOD.

 

[oatmeal]

Which "him"?
Father, Son, or Holy Spirit?
All three are GOD.

Except for Jesus, the son became flesh right?

But wait, God became flesh, and all three are one God, so not only did the son become flesh, the Father and the Holy Ghost became flesh as well.

So God, (Father and son and HG) became flesh.

So for Jesus to say, God is spirit would be incorrect because God became flesh!

oatmeal

 

[Tambora]

Except for Jesus, the son became flesh right?

But wait, God became flesh, and all three are one God, so not only did the son become flesh, the Father and the Holy Ghost became flesh as well.

So God, (Father and son and HG) became flesh.

So for Jesus to say, God is spirit would be incorrect because God became flesh!

oatmeal

No, silly.

The one GOD consists of three persons.

Just as one Smith family can consists of three person, yet all are still a Smith.
If one person of the Smith family takes out the trash, then the others don't need to.

Only the Son became flesh, so the others didn't need to.

 

[Ps82]

The grammatical and natural flow of the verse shows that Jesus was referring to the "son" as the disciple that was standing there with Mary, and not Himself.

John 19 KJV
(26) When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
(27) Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
​

Mary was to behold the disciple as her son, and the disciple was to behold Mary as his mother.

I believe that God can speak to more than one issue at a time!

He was speaking of himself prophetically as being "the promised ONE to be born unto WOMAN." Gen. 3:15 That's why he called Mary - WOMAN - and not Mother. Because in Genesis 3 ... female's name was still - WOMAN. It did not become Eve until Adam changed it right before they were expelled out of the Garden.

Yet, Jesus may have also been speaking about the disciple standing there that was to take care of his mother (the the WOMAN who finally bore the predestined Christ.)

Another place from the cross that he speaks to two issues is this:

Eli Eli - why have you forsaken me? Some people thought he called out a person's name ... while others explain that he was referring to God. I say both!

God did turn his back on the physical mortal son ... so that he could die physically.

But the second prophet word was this:
It was Eli, the High Priest, who originally forsake the LORD God in the days of Samuel ... that caused the LORD to change his relationship with the priesthood forever. The LORD said: BUT from now own I will only respect those (priests) who respect me and those who don't will be lightly esteemed ... and I will raise up (another) faithful priest, that shall do according to that which is in My hear and mind...I will build him a sure house ... and he shall bre My anointed FOR EVER.

From that time forward the WORD of the LORD was precious (or was rare) in those days, and there were no open vision. I Samuel 2:27-36 and I Samuel 3:1

Is it any wonder that our Lord Jesus chastised the priests and religious leaders of his day John 5:37,38,39 ... by saying that they had never had the opportunity to hear the Fathers VOICE nor to SEE his shape... and that they did not understand the scriptures ... which testified that he was the actual eternal priest that was promised to come after them back in I Samuel 2:35,36.

The priesthood (Eli and his sons) in Eli's day forsook the LORD God ... and the priesthood again in Jesus's day forsook our Lord!

 

[egyptianmuslim]

Hello egyptianmuslim,

I agree with you in some ways ...
BUT...
Our ONE spiritual God, who was able to create things out of invisibility and then bring them into the LIGHT of visibility ... was also able to create beings who would be able to behold the visible things He created.

IOW ... the invisible God created something called "visibility!"

Just as God was able to create a physical form that had life in it ... and then add additional life (that some people call man's unique "soul") to it ... in order to form a completed visible human being ... SO TOO was God able to create a living form for himself and to use IT. He associated his own unique invisible nature to this created visible image
No, we cannot see the spiritual God ... but we were created to SEE God's created specifically personal visible living form or image..

I agree with you that God may reveal some of His Spirit(Power) in a human or other things(to be His messenger) but this does`nt mean that this thing is the Mirror Image of God, ie if God indwel my soul in a dog this does`nt mean that my image is dog-like

In Exodus 24:9,10,11,12 KJV ... where it is written ... and THEY SAW GOD ... the body of heaven in HIS clearness!!!"... then these men had seen the created visible image of God (aka - His heavenly body).

.
No one saw the image of God but they may feel his Power

Is it any wonder that the Most High God created Adam (mankind) after the likeness and image of himself?

No the likeness is in some things like free well and creative ability not in image because there were many humans created by God hundreds thousands of years before Adam.

Peace of God upon you.

 

[egyptianmuslim]

Do you think it would be safe to assume that God, being a spirit, could create another spirit just like him?

I believe he did just that. Long before he created the worlds he created his Christ. God used this spirit to create everything else, time, the worlds, mankind. To show himself to mankind he put this spirit into his physical son Jesus. Seeing Jesus we can see and understand his and our God.

These are my thoughts as to what I see in scripture. I wish I understood what you believe. I'm sure it would be of interest to see another person's views on God.

Peace

Yes God could create another spirit just like him , but 1-what do you call this new spirit? 2-can God destroy this new spirit or can not?

...........................

Muslims has 2 sources of knowledge our scripture and the mind(research) contradiction must not occure between both
Quranic verses are classiefied into 2 groups
1- the clear verses
2- unclear verses
The clear verses are superior to unclear verses (control the meanings of unclear verses)
Example
In Q 5:64 God tells that he has 2 hands
Q5:64. The Jews say: "Allah's Hand is tied up (i.e. He does not give and spend of His Bounty)." Be their hands tied up and

be they accursed for what they uttered. Nay, both His Hands are widely outstretched. He spends (of His Bounty) as He

wills. Verily, the Revelation that has come to you from Allah increases in most of them their obstinate rebellion and disbelief.

We have put enmity and hatred amongst them till the Day of Resurrection. Every time they kindled the fire of war, Allah

extinguished it; and they (ever) strive to make mischief on earth. And Allah does not like the Mufsidun (mischief-makers).

But God says (There is nothing like unto Him) in Q 42:11

Q 42:11. The Creator of the heavens and the earth. He has made for you mates from yourselves, and for the cattle (also)

mates. By this means He creates you (in the wombs). There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the All-Hearer, the All-Seer

The problem is how God has 2 hands like higher mammals ?
Muslims solve this prblem by believing that God says in Q 5:64 that he has 2 hands but He is the Only One who knows what he says because Q 42:11 says (There is nothing like unto Him)
..........
Let us use our mind
What is the image of a human? is it that of sonar, CT scan, infra red, X ray, MR,Gamma camera...,..,..or any imaging methods? ,or is it due to reflection of light from the body surfaces to the retina?
Does God has body surfaces? no, thus there is no retinal image of God
Does God see us by his retina? no, it is an animal perception method
what is the eyesight of God, can we hide any thing from God? no the eyesight of God is penetrative to every things
What is the eyesight of the angels is it retinal??

 

[Ps82]

I agree with you that God may reveal some of His Spirit(Power) in a human or other things(to be His messenger) but this does`nt mean that this thing is the Mirror Image of God, ie if God indwel my soul in a dog this does`nt mean that my image is dog-like


.
No one saw the image of God but they may feel his Power


No the likeness is in some things like free well and creative ability not in image because there were many humans created by God hundreds thousands of years before Adam.

Peace of God upon you.

Are there any examples in your holy writings of where the God of Abraham appeared to him? Did God appear to any of your holy men / prophets?

The first 5 books of my Bible are full of examples where God appeared unto him and others.

My Bible even tells me that God appeared to the Egyptian Hagar ... who was the mother of Ishmael. He gave her a promise regarding her son Ishmael. Are you aware that God appeared to her?

 

[keypurr]

Yes God could create another spirit just like him , but 1-what do you call this new spirit? 2-can God destroy this new spirit or can not?

You ask a good question friend.
I would call the express image of God Christ.
I think God could destroy anything he created and his image would be his creation.

...........................

Muslims has 2 sources of knowledge our scripture and the mind(research) contradiction must not occure between both
Quranic verses are classiefied into 2 groups
1- the clear verses
2- unclear verses
The clear verses are superior to unclear verses (control the meanings of unclear verses)
Example
In Q 5:64 God tells that he has 2 hands
Q5:64. The Jews say: "Allah's Hand is tied up (i.e. He does not give and spend of His Bounty)." Be their hands tied up and

be they accursed for what they uttered. Nay, both His Hands are widely outstretched. He spends (of His Bounty) as He

wills. Verily, the Revelation that has come to you from Allah increases in most of them their obstinate rebellion and disbelief.

We have put enmity and hatred amongst them till the Day of Resurrection. Every time they kindled the fire of war, Allah

extinguished it; and they (ever) strive to make mischief on earth. And Allah does not like the Mufsidun (mischief-makers).

But God says (There is nothing like unto Him) in Q 42:11

Q 42:11. The Creator of the heavens and the earth. He has made for you mates from yourselves, and for the cattle (also)

mates. By this means He creates you (in the wombs). There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the All-Hearer, the All-Seer

The problem is how God has 2 hands like higher mammals ?
Muslims solve this prblem by believing that God says in Q 5:64 that he has 2 hands but He is the Only One who knows what he says because Q 42:11 says (There is nothing like unto Him)
..........
Let us use our mind
What is the image of a human? is it that of sonar, CT scan, infra red, X ray, MR,Gamma camera...,..,..or any imaging methods? ,or is it due to reflection of light from the body surfaces to the retina?
Does God has body surfaces? no, thus there is no retinal image of God
Does God see us by his retina? no, it is an animal perception method
what is the eyesight of God, can we hide any thing from God? no the eyesight of God is penetrative to every things
What is the eyesight of the angels is it retinal??[/QUOTE]

The human mind most likely can not see fully the power of God, but I think we get a idea. We consider Jesus a reflection of God by his actions. Most think Jesus is God, But I see him as the son of God. Sent to enlighten us. But he is a form of god because he has the express image of God.

Thank you for some of your beliefs, I did not realize that you folks though that God had hands. I think God can take any form he wishes and considering that the commandments were written by the finger of God I can see why you might think that way.

Peace

 

[keypurr]

Yes God could create another spirit just like him , but 1-what do you call this new spirit? 2-can God destroy this new spirit or can not?

You ask a good question friend.

I would call this new spirit Christ.

I think God can destroy any thing that he creates.

Muslims has 2 sources of knowledge our scripture and the mind(research) contradiction must not occure between both
Quranic verses are classiefied into 2 groups
1- the clear verses
2- unclear verses
The clear verses are superior to unclear verses (control the meanings of unclear verses)
Example
In Q 5:64 God tells that he has 2 hands
Q5:64. The Jews say: "Allah's Hand is tied up (i.e. He does not give and spend of His Bounty)." Be their hands tied up and

be they accursed for what they uttered. Nay, both His Hands are widely outstretched. He spends (of His Bounty) as He

wills. Verily, the Revelation that has come to you from Allah increases in most of them their obstinate rebellion and disbelief.

We have put enmity and hatred amongst them till the Day of Resurrection. Every time they kindled the fire of war, Allah

extinguished it; and they (ever) strive to make mischief on earth. And Allah does not like the Mufsidun (mischief-makers).

But God says (There is nothing like unto Him) in Q 42:11

Q 42:11. The Creator of the heavens and the earth. He has made for you mates from yourselves, and for the cattle (also)

mates. By this means He creates you (in the wombs). There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the All-Hearer, the All-Seer

The problem is how God has 2 hands like higher mammals ?
Muslims solve this prblem by believing that God says in Q 5:64 that he has 2 hands but He is the Only One who knows what he says because Q 42:11 says (There is nothing like unto Him)
..........
Let us use our mind
What is the image of a human? is it that of sonar, CT scan, infra red, X ray, MR,Gamma camera...,..,..or any imaging methods? ,or is it due to reflection of light from the body surfaces to the retina?
Does God has body surfaces? no, thus there is no retinal image of God
Does God see us by his retina? no, it is an animal perception method
what is the eyesight of God, can we hide any thing from God? no the eyesight of God is penetrative to every things
What is the eyesight of the angels is it retinal??

I wonder if the human mind could ever imagine the fullness of God. We see him through his son Jesus. I believe Jesus is the only one to ever hold the express image of God.

I never realized that you folks think God has hands, I see him as a spirit that could take any form hie wishes. But considering that the commandments were written by the finger of god I can see why you believe that.

Thank you for your kindness friend. If we take time to understand one another it would be a better world.

 

[egyptianmuslim]

Are there any examples in your holy writings of where the God of Abraham appeared to him? Did God appear to any of your holy men / prophets?

The first 5 books of my Bible are full of examples where God appeared unto him and others.

My Bible even tells me that God appeared to the Egyptian Hagar ... who was the mother of Ishmael. He gave her a promise regarding her son Ishmael. Are you aware that God appeared to her?

God appear to any of your holy men / prophets?[/QUOTE]
No one did see the Image of God by his eye(retinal image) but we communicate with God by our spirit (spirit to spirit contact) Moses asked God to look to His image but he fainted because the mountain was destroyed Q 7:143143. And when Musa (Moses) came at the time and place appointed by Us, and his Lord spoke to him, he said: "O my Lord! Show me (Yourself), that I may look upon You." Allah said: "You cannot see Me, but look upon the mountain if it stands still in its place then you shall see Me." So when his Lord appeared to the mountain , He made it collapse to dust, and Musa (Moses) fell down unconscious. Then when he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to You, I turn to You in repentance and I am the first of the believers."

Also Moses`s folk asked him to see God Q 4:153 . The people of the Scripture (Jews) ask you(Muhamed) to cause a book to descend upon them from heaven. Indeed they asked Musa (Moses) for even greater than that, when they said: "Show us Allah in public," but they were struck with thunder clap and lightning for their wickedness. Then they worshipped the calf even after clear proofs, evidences, and signs had come to them. (Even) so We forgave them. And We gave Musa (Moses) a clear proof of authority.
it is apparent from the 2 verses that seeing God is a silly question because it minimises God and make Him in likeness to His creation

The first 5 books of my Bible are full of examples where God appeared unto him and others.

My Bible even tells me that God appeared to the Egyptian Hagar ... who was the mother of Ishmael. He gave her a promise regarding her son Ishmael. Are you aware that God appeared to her?

It is a spirit to Spirit communication (revelation) it is like dream.

 

[egyptianmuslim]

You ask a good question friend.

I would call this new spirit Christ.

I think God can destroy any thing that he creates..

Now Christ was created and could be destroyed ie is`nt God

I wonder if the human mind could ever imagine the fullness of God. We see him through his son Jesus. I believe Jesus is the only one to ever hold the express image of God.

I never realized that you folks think God has hands, I see him as a spirit that could take any form hie wishes. But considering that the commandments were written by the finger of god I can see why you believe that.

Thank you for your kindness friend. If we take time to understand one another it would be a better world

God is the Only One Who is aware of His Fingers or His Both Hands, but i believe that the Holy Books( B or Q) ar`nt the original word of God but it is the word of God to human ie your words to a kid are different from your word to a man, God can talk and communicate with every things in the known and unknown world.
Q 18:109. Say (O Muhammad to mankind). "If the sea were ink for (writing) the Words of my Lord, surely, the sea would be exhausted before the Words of my Lord would be finished, even if we brought (another sea) like it for its aid."

Peace of God upon you

 

[dave3712]

''
.
No one saw the image of God but they may feel his Power

When Moses and the 73 others went up to thr mountain they saw God.

What Moses showed them was his discovery of an eighth Planet in the star filled heavens, one slowly moving as Planets do, through the branching sketch of the Constellations.

Uranus was then seen by these elders as a proof of a previously Unseen God, the God thereafter of the Jews and the Bible.

 

[Tambora]

Now Christ was created

No.

All things were created by Him and for Him.

Colossians 1 KJV
(16) For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:



Revelation 4 KJV
(11) Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
​

 

[Tambora]

Do you think it would be safe to assume that God, being a spirit, could create another spirit just like him?

Anything created would not be uncreated.

GOD (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) are uncreated.

 

[keypurr]

Anything created would not be uncreated.

GOD (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) are uncreated.

Please don't shoot me but I think Christ (the Spirit) is God's first creation. Only the Father is uncreated.

What is the express image of God in Hebrews 1?

 

[Tambora]

Please don't shoot me but I think Christ (the Spirit) is God's first creation. Only the Father is uncreated.

Scripture does not tell us that GOD created a spirit just like GOD.
Nor does scripture say the Son was created.

What is the express image of God in Hebrews 1?

It tells you in the previous verse so you don't have to guess.
The Son.