ECT What is Preterism

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
NCT is a form of antinomianism. NCT adherents hold that Our Lord, in some sense, brought a new, better, and higher law, virtually denying Him as the lawgiver on Sinai in the first place, and implying an imperfection in God, since the Psalmist and the very nature of God teaches us that the Law of the Lord is perfect (complete, sufficient, not needing correction, etc.). The reality is that Our Lord came and in the Sermon on The Mount corrected the Pharisaical perversions of the moral law, not abolishing the Decalogue, but reclaiming the right understanding of it. It is a most grievous and consequentially wicked error.

Within NCT folk, there is such an animus toward law. The NCT folks take certain antithetical-sounding statements by Paul, which then constitute their formal principle of theology. In practical terms, NCT adherents will usually be found in conformity (after a fashion) with most of the moral law
the 4th commandment excepted. I think NCT really do want to follow the Lord, but they also want to think of discipleship in terms that leave obedience almost out of sight.

Consider the way NCT person will read Jer.31:34. The Christian doesn't need to "hear" the law, because it is already pre-formed and perfected on the heart. "Obedience" is more a matter of re-accustomization to the re-calibrated internal compass. The disjunct between the way faith and obedience operated in the OT and the way it happens in the NT age is total. In NCT, Christianity is fundamentally a NEW religion. Sigh.

I think NCT is basically dispensationalism that has been significantly purged of some distinctive elements, and reformulated through influences that include historic covenant-theology. NCT has gone further than "progressive" dispensationalism, but I think they are both on a continuum of modification.

The NCT hostility to anything that feels like a legal principle leads to semantic games with regard to the commands of Our Lord or Apostolic imperatives. If you don't like law, then these can't be "laws." Within NCT, they are but guidance to the Spirit within the Christian, or some such. They sound like directions, but really they are more like descriptions of "what Christians do when led by the Spirit." Only the flesh, in reaction to the law, still engages in disobedience--but it's not the new you.

If we covenantalists ask the question, "what does love to God and neighbor look like?" in truth we should end up with a picture of the moral law. Yet NCT resists that definition with all its might. The New Covenant Theology proponent will say, "if you just love Jesus, if you just learn to admire who he is and what he did, then you will naturally be like him in practice without minding any directions. Whatever you do
if it doesn't appear to be opposed to Godmust be spiritual." No rules; rules just encourage the flesh. :AMR:

AMR

Do you believe the New Covenant is in place right now?

I believe the NC is in place right now, but I disagree with many of your assertions regarding NCT.

For example, I believe what James said. I believe a faith without works is a dead faith.

However, I believe the law and prophets were fulfilled in Christ Jesus. I believe the law was changed when the priesthood changed.

I believe the law of the spirit filled life in Christ Jesus has replaced the law of sin and death.

I agree that the law was perfect and good, but at the same time it was also a law of sin and death.

I know that your Reformed position teaches that the moral law is still in place today, along with the Sabbath law. Correct?
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
Do you believe the New Covenant is in place right now?

I believe the NC is in place right now, but I disagree with many of your assertions regarding NCT.

For example, I believe what James said. I believe a faith without works is a dead faith.

However, I believe the law and prophets were fulfilled in Christ Jesus. I believe the law was changed when the priesthood changed.

I believe the law of the spirit filled life in Christ Jesus has replaced the law of sin and death.

I agree that the law was perfect and good, but at the same time it was also a law of sin and death.

I know that your Reformed position teaches that the moral law is still in place today, along with the Sabbath law. Correct?

You believe that you can "deny the NC," which is "deny(ing) what Christ Jesus accomplished on the cross," but still be saved:


"If you deny the NC, then you deny what Christ Jesus accomplished on the cross.."-Craigie

Vs.

"I never said someone was saved or not saved based on whether or not they believe the NC is in place today."-Tellalie


You also, on record, assert that you can hold anti-Christ beliefs, and still, you are saved:

"All sins were paid for at the cross for all time (past, present, and future).
Darby followers don't believe that. Darby followers claim there will be animal sacrifices for sin in the future.You are anti-Christ when it comes to what was accomplished at the cross....Once again mysteryboy, you deny the one time sacrifice for sins on the cross. You claim it wasn't good enough for all sins, you claim people in the future will have to sacrifice animals for sin atonement. You adhere to these anti-Christ beliefs, and then you think your going to lecture me on grace?You're nuts! "-Tellalie

Vs.

"I never said you or any other MADist isn't saved. I said you are a legalist. "-Tellalie



On record.
 

dodge

New member
:rotfl:

You act like I never heard about the towers or wall before.

I have heard all of the arguments regarding the towers and wall.

None of them prove Preterism wrong, or that not one stone was not left standing in 70AD.

I find it telling that you won't address the consequences of your new position, and that is that you would have to have two more temples built for your eschatology to work out.

You're just as bad as the Bullingerites who claim every single event in Revelation is a yet future event, including the seven churches.

However, that's what happens when people try to defend the false teachings of dispensationalism.


The Fallacy of Preterism


Dr. David R. Reagan
Preterism is a system for the interpretation of the book of Revelation. Its strange name comes from a Latin word meaning past tense. The word is appropriate because this view holds that either all or most of the book of Revelation was fulfilled in the First Century!

The Origin of the Viewpoint

The view was developed in the 17th Century by a Jesuit priest named Luis de Alcazar (1554-1613). His purpose was to defend the Catholic Church against the attacks of the Reformers. He denied the Reformers' charge that the book of Revelation was a prophecy about the apostasy of the Roman Church. Instead, he argued that the book was a prophecy about the Church's struggles during its early years. Chapters 4 through 11 were interpreted as depicting the Church's fight against Judaism, culminating in the fall of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. Chapters 12 through 19 were viewed as the Church's struggle against paganism, ending with the fall of Rome in 476. Chapters 20 through 22 were interpreted to be a symbolic description of the glories of papal Rome. Using this clever approach, Alcazar was able to limit the range of Revelation's prophecies to the first 500 years of the Christian Era.

Alcazar was a mild Preterist. A more radical form of Preterism gained popularity in the latter part of the 20th Century and is today the most widely held version of this interpretive approach. It sees nearly all the prophecies of Revelation as fulfilled in the 70 A.D. destruction of Jerusalem, except for the resurrection of believers and the Second Coming of Jesus. It assigns the Tribulation to the fall of Israel, the great apostasy to the First Century Church, and the last days to the period between Jesus' ascension and the destruction of Jerusalem. The beast is viewed as a symbol of Nero in particular and the Roman Empire in general. The False Prophet is equated with the leadership of apostate Israel. Needless to say, many of the spokesmen for this viewpoint are anti-Semitic.

http://www.according2prophecy.org/Preterism.html
 

musterion

Well-known member
A more radical form of Preterism gained popularity in the latter part of the 20th Century and is today the most widely held version of this interpretive approach.

Yep. But of course no system is wrong just because of how new it is, according to Tet. Except in the case of dispensationalism.

Needless to say, many of the spokesmen for this viewpoint are anti-Semitic.

Glad we're not the only ones to notice that feature of preterism.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Yep. But of course no system is wrong just because of how new it is, according to Tet. Except in the case of dispensationalism.



Glad we're not the only ones to notice that feature of preterism.



Both assertions are wrong. I've heard him compare it to Mormonism and JW's because 'something was in the water' at that time and started these kind of imposed systems.

It is as indifferent about one race as the next. It affirms faith over unbelief. Faith is what determines whether we are in God's tree (ROm 11) or a new creation (Gal 6).

Very simple accusations to handle.
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
The Fallacy of Preterism

I can play your lazy game also:

How the false doctrine of Dispensationalism has damaged Christianity

"Dispensationalism eschatology was originally taught by a Plymouth Brethren evangelist named John Nelson Darby in the mid-1800’s and was popularized by the Scofield Study Bible, published initially in 1909. It gained more popularity toward the end of the 20th century through popular books such as “The Late Great Planet Earth” and a fictional series of books called “Left Behind”......."

A child can google something to make a point.

What you can't do is defend Darby's false teachings (Dispensationalism) when it is tested with scripture.
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
I've heard him compare it to Mormonism and JW's because 'something was in the water' at that time and started these kind of imposed systems.

That's correct. Dispensationalism is comparable to Mormonism and JW's because they were each invented by one person in the mid 1800's.

John Nelson Darby invented Dispensationalism.

Joseph Smith invented Mormonism.

Charles Taze Russell invented The Jehovah's Witnesses.

Ellen White invented Seventh Day Adventism.

Mary Baker Eddy invented Christian Science.

All of these "inventions" took place in the mid 1800's. That's why this era is called "The Age of the Cults".
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
I can play your lazy game also:

How the false doctrine of Dispensationalism has damaged Christianity

"Dispensationalism eschatology was originally taught by a Plymouth Brethren evangelist named John Nelson Darby in the mid-1800’s and was popularized by the Scofield Study Bible, published initially in 1909. It gained more popularity toward the end of the 20th century through popular books such as “The Late Great Planet Earth” and a fictional series of books called “Left Behind”......."

A child can google something to make a point.

What you can't do is defend Darby's false teachings (Dispensationalism) when it is tested with scripture.
"If you deny the NC, then you deny what Christ Jesus accomplished on the cross.."-Craigie

Vs.

"I never said someone was saved or not saved based on whether or not they believe the NC is in place today."-Tellalie


You pervert, and and anti-Semite piece of dung.


"Quote Originally Posted by dodge View Post

The Fallacy of Preterism

Dr. David R. Reagan...
Needless to say, many of the spokesmen for this viewpoint are anti-Semitic.http://www.according2prophecy.org/Preterism.html


http://theologyonline.com/showthread...58#post4703858

Post #611:

"The Apostle Paul was the biggest anti-Semite there ever was:.."-Preterist Tellalie Craigie


We can smell you, and your sulfur, even through the computer, you devilish, little arms/chin, rat/weasel, as you litter your satanism, on every post.


And get off this site, you obsessed psychopath, and pay attention to your "children," and big armed "wife," loser.
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
That's correct. Dispensationalism is comparable to Mormonism and JW's because they were each invented by one person in the mid 1800's.

John Nelson Darby invented Dispensationalism.

Joseph Smith invented Mormonism.

Charles Taze Russell invented The Jehovah's Witnesses.

Ellen White invented Seventh Day Adventism.

Mary Baker Eddy invented Christian Science.

All of these "inventions" took place in the mid 1800's. That's why this era is called "The Age of the Cults".

Russell "invented" your satanic AD 70-ism/Preterism, you closet Catholic, and anti Semite, and hater of the Lord Jesus Christ, Damien Craigie.
 
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