KingdomRose
New member
They'd better "do justly" or ask forgiveness for not doing so. "Forgive us our trespasses"! (Matthew 6:9,10) It is a requirement for all people who want to go on living.
What does God's Holy Law Demand?
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
They'd better "do justly" or ask forgiveness for not doing so. "Forgive us our trespasses"! (Matthew 6:9,10) It is a requirement for all people who want to go on living.
Ben Masada
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You ain't seen nothing yet, Nameless.
KingdomRose
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Like what? Paul taught that Jesus has already fulfilled the Law, and, indeed, the Law is obsolete and taken out of the way, by Jesus' death on the 'cross.'
"When Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, he entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation; and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through his own blood, he entered the holy place [in heaven] once for all, having obtained eternal redemption." (Hebrews 9:11,12, NASB)
"When he said, 'A new covenant,' he has made the first obsolete." (Heb.8:13)
"Having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and he has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross." (Colossians 2:14, NASB)
Ben Masada
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Yes, Nameless, HaShem's standard is perfection but, if you read Ecclesiastes 7:20 "There has never been a man upon earth to have done only good and never sinned". So, for man, perfection can't be more than the target to aim at. Why? Because we have been granted with Freewill.
KingdomRose
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Where did you get that from? :kookoo: Jesus DIED so that we could have life.(Matthew 20:28) Also, when a person is reconciled to God, he would obviously be acceptable to Him as a worshiper and a friend. How would that person not be "saved" if he were to die or the end of the age had come?
No one is "saved" now, because Jesus said that we all have to "endure to the end," of our life or of the present system of things. (Matt.24:13) But, again, true Christians have been reconciled and will be saved at the conclusion of either their lives or the end of the system.
Everyone has been reconciled by Christ's death, but we are not saved by his death. You know that, right?
KingdomRose
New member
I can't figure out what you are saying. If a person is "reconciled," he is assuredly "redeemed." Unless we are talking about the final situation of a person, like we do when we talk about being "saved."
Paul wrote to anointed Christians about the timing of their initial sealing, "You also hoped in him after you heard the word of truth, the good news about your salvation. By means of him also, after you believed, you were sealed with the promised holy spirit." (Ephesians 1:13,14) First-century Christians were indeed sealed shortly after they heard the good news and became believers in Christ (Acts 8:15-17; 10:44). Such sealing demonstrated God's approval of them, but it did not show God's FINAL approval. Paul stated that anointed Christians are "sealed unto the day of redemption" (Ephesians 4:30). This indicates that the passing of time (usually many years) is involved after that initial sealing. Anointed ones need to remain faithful from the day they are sealed with holy spirit until they day they die, or their physical bodies are changed (Romans 8:23; Phil.1:23; 2Peter 1:10).
Therefore, only at the very end of Paul's life could he say: "For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day." (2Timothy 4:6-8, KJV) Jesus also said, "Prove yourselves faithful even to death, and I will give you the crown of life." (Revelation 2:10)
So a lot depends on how faithful a person is, right up to the end of his life.
Thank you for presenting a topic that got me to think as deeply about it as is possible for me.
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Do we need to?
Yes, God has redeemed his people so that he might offer them salvation.
KingdomRose
New member
No, that's why I'm asking you for scriptural support for your idea.
Ben Masada
New member
Tell me Intojoy, if Jesus was king, what country was he a king of? Of Israel he was not because we don't have him in the records as one. And for having he been sinless, do you think Ecclesiastes 7:20 is a lie? Jesus was a man upon earth for 33 years and there has never been one who has done only good and never sinned. So, according to his own gospel aka the Tanach, he was not sinless.
For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled we shall be saved by His life. (Romans 5:10)
KingdomRose
New member
It makes sense to me in this way of putting it:
"If, when we were enemies, we became reconciled to God through the death of his Son, how much more now that we have become reconciled, shall we be saved by his life-course." All who are reconciled will see the fulfillment of the promises from God, and that fulfillment was made possible through Jesus' perfect life-course, including his sacrificial death. Now THAT makes sense and doesn't contradict hundreds of other scriptures.
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God's people have always squabbled like a bunch of sparrows, read your bible.
Ben,
I appreciate the way you disagree with me. And I appreciate your words. They are well thought out.
Your words are well understood and my soul is familiar with them.
Lol... Like a sewing circle of old, disgruntled women?
This was in reference to a brother that believes that certain laws are fulfilled in our flesh by following Jesus, as in we emulate the perfection of God in our own self righteousness.
This is awkward, because the Jews memorize the Torah, and they admit that they depend on Gods mercy.
I still await his answer, because he states that some laws are followed while others were essentially abrogated by the death of Jesus.
I was trying to understand his list of observance. Maybe his is shorter than mine, and I can trade mine in for his.
; P
That doesn't make sense to me. Everyone in heaven and on earth was reconciled, everyone.
The Mosaic law is not applicable today because of a change in jurisdiction resulting from a change in the priesthood of Israel.
Israel has been converted from the Israel of Jacob to the Israel of Jesus Christ who is Israel's rightful King.
The law applicable to us today are the instructions that God wrote and Moses placed in the ark of the covenant.