What disgusts you the most about beanieboy?

[beanieboy]

If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. - Jesus

This is what you are really concerned with, isn't it? At the heart of your argument is the need to be "liked".

If I don't respect someone, I rarely listen to what they say.
I see them as a blind guide, nothing more.

If someone calls hatred love, calls harshness love, calls rudeness love, and ignores rebuke from other brothers in Christ, the only conclusion that I can draw is that they are a blind guide.

 

[intro2faith]

If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. - Jesus



This is what you are really concerned with, isn't it? At the heart of your argument is the need to be "liked".

You think that I care if I'm liked? HA! Try again. That was a false accusation.

As for you whip example, that's a HIGHLY debated verse. Some say that Jesus just used the whip to get the animals out. Others say He used it to get the people AND animals out. Regardless, Jesus had pure motives. We as humans, do not always have pure motives.

Tell me, do you think it was right of Rimi to say that beanieboy is an "idiot" "pig" "wretch" "lying sack" and so forth?

You seem to like to point out those FEW times when Jesus said harsh things. What about all the times he said to treat others lovingly and live in peace with them? Eh? Sure, there are certain times when one must be harsh, but more often than not we are to be loving.

Here comes the argument...

 

[intro2faith]

The Pharisees were the ones who hated Jesus. They were constantly criticizing him, trying to trap him, telling his disciples that it offended them that Jesus would lower himself to eat with sinners....

Everyone else loved him.
Zaccheus, a tax collector, climbed a tree to see him.
Jesus didn't say, "Zach, you little midget! You make me want to puke!!"
Nope. He asked him to eat with him, which was a big deal, and was criticized for socializing with him.
When he was with Simon, a woman washed his feet with her tears and hair, and Simon thought, "surely this is not the son of God!! He would know what kind of woman she is..."

But the lowly? They gathered around to hear him because he offered them hope, good news, blessing.

The people in power (the church) were those who hated him most.

Excellent point.

 

[intro2faith]

If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. - Jesus



This is what you are really concerned with, isn't it? At the heart of your argument is the need to be "liked".

By the way. I didn't say "they will like us" I said, "they will respect us." Big difference.

 

[Army of One]

The Pharisees were the ones who hated Jesus. They were constantly criticizing him, trying to trap him, telling his disciples that it offended them that Jesus would lower himself to eat with sinners....

Everyone else loved him.
Zaccheus, a tax collector, climbed a tree to see him.
Jesus didn't say, "Zach, you little midget! You make me want to puke!!"
Nope. He asked him to eat with him, which was a big deal, and was criticized for socializing with him.
When he was with Simon, a woman washed his feet with her tears and hair, and Simon thought, "surely this is not the son of God!! He would know what kind of woman she is..."

But the lowly? They gathered around to hear him because he offered them hope, good news, blessing.

The people in power (the church) were those who hated him most.

So everyone else loved Him, except the Pharisees? I guess it was just the Pharisees yelling "Crucify Him!", or trying to throw him over the cliff in Nazareth, or begging him to leave after he cast the demons into the herd of swine? The masses were amused by His miraculous powers, but that doesn't equal love.

 

[Nineveh]

By the way. I didn't say "they will like us" I said, "they will respect us." Big difference.

Ah.

 

[beanieboy]

So everyone else loved Him, except the Pharisees? I guess it was just the Pharisees yelling "Crucify Him!", or trying to throw him over the cliff in Nazareth, or begging him to leave after he cast the demons into the herd of swine? The masses were amused by His miraculous powers, but that doesn't equal love.

Well, someone must have loved him, if they were laying palm branches down. And I am supposed to think that everyone hated him a week later?

 

[Army of One]

Well, someone must have loved him, if they were laying palm branches down. And I am supposed to think that everyone hated him a week later?

Well, yes. I think most of people laying down palm branches were probably only looking for someone to rescue them from the Romans. When it became clear that that wasn't going to happen immediately, they easily turned against Him. I'm not saying that there wasn't anyone who loved Him though, I'm just challenging your assertment that "everyone" except the religious leaders loved Him.

 

[intro2faith]

Nineveh,

I guess you didn't see post # 662. I thought I'd bring it up again so it didn't get lost in all the other posts, then you'd never see it

 

[beanieboy]

Well, yes. I think most of people laying down palm branches were probably only looking for someone to rescue them from the Romans. When it became clear that that wasn't going to happen immediately, they easily turned against Him. I'm not saying that there wasn't anyone who loved Him though, I'm just challenging your assertment that "everyone" except the religious leaders loved Him.

Who were the people that were the "multitudes" coming to hear him speak?
The tax collectors, prostitutes, farmers,

or the Pharisees?

Did the Pharisees and Sagisees ever say anything positive to him?

Jesus was constantly using them as the "Goofus" to some other Gallant.

 

[Nineveh]

Thanks for calling this post to my attention

You think that I care if I'm liked? HA! Try again. That was a false accusation.

Ok, respected by unrepentant sodomites, although you don't seem to feel it's necessary to like who you respect. Although I can't think of anyone I respect that I don't like. But whatever floats yer boat

As for you whip example, that's a HIGHLY debated verse. Some say that Jesus just used the whip to get the animals out. Others say He used it to get the people AND animals out. Regardless, Jesus had pure motives. We as humans, do not always have pure motives.

Um, the point was He was sometimes harsh.

Tell me, do you think it was right of Rimi to say that beanieboy is an "idiot" "pig" "wretch" "lying sack" and so forth?

Which of those discriptions do you not think are true?

You seem to like to point out those FEW times when Jesus said harsh things. What about all the times he said to treat others lovingly and live in peace with them? Eh? Sure, there are certain times when one must be harsh, but more often than not we are to be loving.

Perhaps we need to define what you mean by "loving". So far I get that you mean "kind, accepting and tolerant".

Here comes the argument...

Ok, you go first

 

[Army of One]

Who were the people that were the "multitudes" coming to hear him speak?
The tax collectors, prostitutes, farmers,

or the Pharisees?

I'd say it was mix. Pharisees came to hear Him speak (although usually with unpure motives), just as they came to hear the preaching of John the Baptist. My point was though, that the multitudes are fickle. Many were there just for a show. David Copperfield will easily sell out a venue, but that doesn't mean the people attending love him. They just want to be entertained.

Did the Pharisees and Sagisees ever say anything positive to him?

Jesus was constantly using them as the "Goofus" to some other Gallant.

Yes, Nicodemus was a Pharisee. Joseph of Arimathea is another example.

There were a few Pharisees that believed Him, and there were many of the "multitudes" that utterly rejected and were offended by Him. Once again, why not just clarify or correct your statement that everyone loved Him except the Pharisees?

 

[beanieboy]

I'd say it was mix. Pharisees came to hear Him speak (although usually with unpure motives), just as they came to hear the preaching of John the Baptist. My point was though, that the multitudes are fickle. Many were there just for a show. David Copperfield will easily sell out a venue, but that doesn't mean the people attending love him. They just want to be entertained.


Yes, Nicodemus was a Pharisee. Joseph of Arimathea is another example.

There were a few Pharisees that believed Him, and there were many of the "multitudes" that utterly rejected and were offended by Him. Once again, why not just clarify or correct your statement that everyone loved Him except the Pharisees?

I agree with you. Not all of the Pharisees were against him.
But I gave you several examples.
The Pharisees were offended when Jesus ate with the sinners, and rejected them.
The Pharisees were offended that Jesus forgave people's sin.
The Pharisees were offended when Jesus said they were leading people away from God.
The Pharisees were offended when he told them that they were good at doing the petty things, but did nothing for faith, mercy and justice.
They tried to trick him with the woman caught in adultery.
Jesus told a parable saying that he did not honor the Pharisee who exhalted himself.
Jesus told a parable honoring a Samaritan (considered a sinner) for loving his neighbor, while the priest and Levi (people considered holy) did not.

That's just off of the top of my head.

Can the same thing be said of lepers, prostitutes, or tax collectors (the sinners)?
Was he being harsh to them, or eating with them, which the Pharisees refused to do because they were too holy?

There are more instances of Jesus offending the "holy" than the sinners.

That is who hated Jesus the most.

 

[Army of One]

There are more instances of Jesus offending the "holy" than the sinners.

That is who hated Jesus the most.

Agreed! I never meant to suggest otherwise, I was just correcting your statement (and maybe you meant it as hyperbole, and I missed it) that only the Pharisees hated Jesus. Jesus focused most of His condemnation on the religious leaders, because they of all people should have known better, but that's not say that they were the only ones offended by Him.

 

[firechyld]

Ninevah

No, it was a radio spot on a rock station. It's been about the only one I've heard, so I wouldn't call them "common", in general. But then again, I quit listening to that station, so I wouldn't know if it's "common" for that station or not....

Was it an advertisement for a specific abortion provider, or for a pro-life group?



Army of One

I don't recall seeing any heterosexual weddings where the groom was dressed in a leather S&M outfit, looking like the "gimp" from pulp fiction.

I've been to a couple. I've also been to some extremely tasteful gay weddings.

 

[Nineveh]

firechyld,
It was for abortion. I don't recall if it was specifically for plannedbarrenhood or not, it's been a while...

 

[beanieboy]

Agreed! I never meant to suggest otherwise, I was just correcting your statement (and maybe you meant it as hyperbole, and I missed it) that only the Pharisees hated Jesus. Jesus focused most of His condemnation on the religious leaders, because they of all people should have known better, but that's not say that they were the only ones offended by Him.

Agreed.
He even offended the disciples but not by saying, "Duh, dumb*ss!" He would offend them by pointing out when they were wrong, but thought that they weren't - telling Jesus he could have sold the oil and perfumes of the women washing his feet, telling the children to stay away.

Some argue that Jesus called Peter Satan, so they can call people dumb*ss.

But look at the passage:

22Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. "Never, Lord!" he said. "This shall never happen to you!"

23Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men."

Peter rebuked Jesus, saying that he would never have to suffer nor be sacrificed.
He is telling Peter that he is getting in his way, and most Christians will understand that those temptations may have come from Satan himself, so it is even possible that he was directing that comment to Satan.

I don't think the point of the Gospel is to offend people, but to speak the truth, regardless of whether people find it offensive. If you tell people that it's more difficult for a wealthy man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven than a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, they will be offended. If you tell people that those who exhault themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exhaulted, they will be offended. If you tell someone that everytime that they tell someone to go to hell, everytime they are rude, every time they tell someone looking for food to go get a job, they have done the same to Jesus, they will be offended. If you tell people that Jesus says that we are to become a servant for one another, because it has no social status people will be offended.

They will become offended, angry, defensive, beligerant, and claim that you are the one with the weak faith, because you are too "nice."

 

[Army of One]

Agreed.
He even offended the disciples but not by saying, "Duh, dumb*ss!" He would offend them by pointing out when they were wrong, but thought that they weren't - telling Jesus he could have sold the oil and perfumes of the women washing his feet, telling the children to stay away.

Some argue that Jesus called Peter Satan, so they can call people dumb*ss.

But look at the passage:

22Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. "Never, Lord!" he said. "This shall never happen to you!"

23Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men."

Peter rebuked Jesus, saying that he would never have to suffer nor be sacrificed.
He is telling Peter that he is getting in his way, and most Christians will understand that those temptations may have come from Satan himself, so it is even possible that he was directing that comment to Satan.

I don't think the point of the Gospel is to offend people, but to speak the truth, regardless of whether people find it offensive. If you tell people that it's more difficult for a wealthy man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven than a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, they will be offended. If you tell people that those who exhault themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exhaulted, they will be offended. If you tell someone that everytime that they tell someone to go to hell, everytime they are rude, every time they tell someone looking for food to go get a job, they have done the same to Jesus, they will be offended. If you tell people that Jesus says that we are to become a servant for one another, because it has no social status people will be offended.

They will become offended, angry, defensive, beligerant, and claim that you are the one with the weak faith, because you are too "nice."

Uh oh, I'm a bit scared now. Except for one or two minor points in what you wrote, I agree. :shocked: What's the world coming to?

 

[beanieboy]

Uh oh, I'm a bit scared now. Except for one or two minor points in what you wrote, I agree. :shocked: What's the world coming to?

How many Barbara Steisand CDs do you own, hmmm?

You will find that you can find common ground with most people somewhere, unless you want to think them the enemy, and insist that the are the nemesis of you, the antithesis of everything you believe in, evil to the core. It gives a false image that we are good, and others are bad, and that no evil is within us.

Or maybe one just wants to use the word nemesis. I love that word.

 

[Army of One]

How many Barbara Steisand CDs do you own, hmmm?

You will find that you can find common ground with most people somewhere, unless you want to think them the enemy, and insist that the are the nemesis of you, the antithesis of everything you believe in, evil to the core. It gives a false image that we are good, and others are bad, and that no evil is within us.

Or maybe one just wants to use the word nemesis. I love that word.

Well, if you enjoy Barbara Streisand's music, you just might be my nemesis. :noid:

Edited: I think I'd rather hear a cat screeching as it's run over by a car than listen to her music. :chuckle: