ECT WHAT ACTS 2:28 REALLY MEANS !!

[God's Truth]

I'm not exactly sure what Jesus was referring to but that is definitely one of the possibilities. I've always thought of it as his suffering.

I am glad to hear you are considering it a possibility.

 

[kayaker]

When I read Jesus saying, 'It is finished' I read Jesus saying that what he came to this world to accomplish he said he completed His mission.

He left nothing to be done.
He rested when He finished His work.



He did, He said 'It is finished'.

Now, if you do not want to accept that Jesus Christ saying, 'It is finished' does mean that He said that He finished the work He came to do, then I cannot do anything about it.

I appreciate your notion, Lifeisgood!

I might add my two cents furthering your perspective, with your patience. During the Last Supper, Jesus said:

Matthew 26-29, KJV (my parentheses): "26) And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body. 27) And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; 28) For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. 29) But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new (NEW WINE, not vinegar which is old wine) with you in my Father's kingdom.​

There is no record Jesus actually drank new wine, freshly fermented wine, thereafter. Vinegar is old wine. When Jesus said "I thirst", He inspired those below His cross to offer up vinegar (old wine). When Jesus received the vinegar (old wine), He said "It is finished." Jesus fulfilled His sacrificial promise spoken to His disciples at the Last Supper: "I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom."

Vinegar was the last 'cup' Jesus received in His flesh body prior to giving up the Ghost: "It is finished."

Well, just my two cents appreciating your perspective.

kayaker

 

[turbosixx]

When I read Jesus saying, 'It is finished' I read Jesus saying that what he came to this world to accomplish he said he completed His mission.

He left nothing to be done.
He rested when He finished His work.



He did, He said 'It is finished'.

Now, if you do not want to accept that Jesus Christ saying, 'It is finished' does mean that He said that He finished the work He came to do, then I cannot do anything about it.

I read Kayaker’s post and I agree with what he is saying, here’s why.

I looked up (Strongs) the Greek word used for “it is finished” and it’s τετέλεσται (tetelestai). It’s also used in John 19:28 as “accomplished”
28 After this, Jesus, knowing that all things had already been accomplished, to fulfill the Scripture, said, "I am thirsty."

So reading verse 28 tells us everything had already been accomplished except fulfilling one more prophecy. After he fulfills the prophecy, he says “it is finished”.

Matt. 5:17 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

 

[turbosixx]

I appreciate your notion, Lifeisgood!

I might add my two cents furthering your perspective, with your patience. During the Last Supper, Jesus said:

Matthew 26-29, KJV (my parentheses): "26) And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body. 27) And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; 28) For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. 29) But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new (NEW WINE, not vinegar which is old wine) with you in my Father's kingdom.​

There is no record Jesus actually drank new wine, freshly fermented wine, thereafter. Vinegar is old wine. When Jesus said "I thirst", He inspired those below His cross to offer up vinegar (old wine). When Jesus received the vinegar (old wine), He said "It is finished." Jesus fulfilled His sacrificial promise spoken to His disciples at the Last Supper: "I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom."

Vinegar was the last 'cup' Jesus received in His flesh body prior to giving up the Ghost: "It is finished."

Well, just my two cents appreciating your perspective.

kayaker

Thanks for the insight.

 

[lifeisgood]

I appreciate your notion, Lifeisgood!

I might add my two cents furthering your perspective, with your patience. During the Last Supper, Jesus said:

Matthew 26-29, KJV (my parentheses): "26) And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body. 27) And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; 28) For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. 29) But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new (NEW WINE, not vinegar which is old wine) with you in my Father's kingdom.​

There is no record Jesus actually drank new wine, freshly fermented wine, thereafter. Vinegar is old wine. When Jesus said "I thirst", He inspired those below His cross to offer up vinegar (old wine). When Jesus received the vinegar (old wine), He said "It is finished." Jesus fulfilled His sacrificial promise spoken to His disciples at the Last Supper: "I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom."

Vinegar was the last 'cup' Jesus received in His flesh body prior to giving up the Ghost: "It is finished."

Well, just my two cents appreciating your perspective.

kayaker

Yes, He left nothing to be done.
He finished/completed His mission to the uttermost.

 

[lifeisgood]

I read Kayaker’s post and I agree with what he is saying, here’s why.

I looked up (Strongs) the Greek word used for “it is finished” and it’s τετέλεσται (tetelestai). It’s also used in John 19:28 as “accomplished”
28 After this, Jesus, knowing that all things had already been accomplished, to fulfill the Scripture, said, "I am thirsty."

So reading verse 28 tells us everything had already been accomplished except fulfilling one more prophecy. After he fulfills the prophecy, he says “it is finished”.

Matt. 5:17 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

Isn't it wonderful that the Lord teaches us so patiently.
Me first one in line.

Yes, as you said, after he fulfilled the last thing from His mission, for He had to fulfill everything He came to accomplish; otherwise, He could not rest, he said, "it is finished" and is now sitted at the right-hand of the Father.

Hallelujah to His name!
Praise and Honor and Glory to the three in one!

 

[turbosixx]

Isn't it wonderful that the Lord teaches us so patiently.
Me first one in line.

Yes, as you said, after he fulfilled the last thing from His mission, for He had to fulfill everything He came to accomplish; otherwise, He could not rest, he said, "it is finished" and is now sitted at the right-hand of the Father.

Hallelujah to His name!
Praise and Honor and Glory to the three in one!

Amen.

 

[kayaker]

You two kind poster have totally inspired me! Amen! I'm indeed thankful for your kind attention to one of my rather shorter posts. Jesus' work of the remission of sins was accomplished on the cross, indeed! Nonetheless, His truth via John 14:26 KJV continues to explode in our minds and hearts exploring His Word as children without preconceived notion. I thought I'd toss out another rendering more in line with Dan P's OP, and appreciating his posture on water baptism. The notion of water baptism being a prerequisite to salvation is known as (water) baptismal spiritual regeneration among theologians, which I am not. And, Nicodemus' quandary seems to be the cornerstone of baptismal spiritual regeneration theology subscribed to by Catholics, LDS/Mormons, Church of Christ, and others less familiar to me.

Please keep in mind that ancestry was a key issue in those days, with particular reference to Deuteronomy 7:6, 7, 8, 9 referring exclusively to Israelites, and not Jews having a more ambiguous definition (Revelation 2:9, 3:9), although I'll use that title in this instance.

Reflect momentarily on exactly who Nicodemus was. Nicodemus was a carnally minded, blue-blooded, high-born "ruler of the Jews" (John 3:1 KJV). Nicodemus was allegedly of 'royal' ancestry (John 3:10 KJV). For Nicodemus, one had to be born a Jew, AND be circumcised to have a snowball's chance to enter into the kingdom of God. Hence: carnally minded.

Nicodemus acknowledged Jesus' divinity, at least to some extent, in John 3:2 KJV later corroborated in John 10:37, 38. I go so far as to suggest Nicodemus' words in John 3:2 KJV set the stage for Jesus' infamous words, John 3:16, John 3:17... Jesus, knowing Nicodemus' significant stature, informed him he "must be born again". Do note the word "baptism" was never spoken by Jesus, or by the author John, until a later venue (John 3:22 KJV). That is a serious flaw in water baptismal spiritual regeneration theology. Furthermore, Jesus didn't say anything about being born of water at that moment.

Now, Nicodemus, the blue-blooded, high-born of royalty was carnally minded, 'flesh' minded one might say. Being such, Nicodemus didn't have a clue Jesus was talking about Spiritual rebirth. Nicodemus interpreted Jesus' mention of being born again from a purely flesh perspective. In his carnal quandary, Nicodemus asked Jesus how a man could re-enter his mother's womb and be born again (John 3:4 KJV). In other words, Nicodemus was asking Jesus how a non-Jew, a Gentile for instance, can reenter his mother's womb and be reborn a blue-blooded, high-born member of royalty as a prerequisite to enter the kingdom of God (John 3:4 KJV).

AFTER Nicodemus brought up his flesh notion of a non-Jew, for instance, being born again a Jew... Jesus THEN paraphrased Nicodemus' flesh notion of birth as being born of water, amniotic fluid. All folk are gestated and born of water. Being reborn Spiritually had nothing to do with being either born (although we all are), or re-born a Jew. Do note, Jesus did not introduce being born of water when Nicodemus first approached Jesus (John 3:3 KJV). Jesus only mentioned being born of water reflecting on Nicodemus' carnal impression of Jesus first saying, "Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3 KJV).

So, the word "baptism" wasn't even mentioned until another venue (John 3:22 KJV). Jesus' first mention of being born again had nothing to do with water or baptism (John 3:3 KJV). The carnally minded, blue-blooded, royally high-born Nicodemus just couldn't grasp the abstract Spiritual aspect of what Jesus was saying, contrasted with his concrete-minded flesh and carnal concept of being re-gestated.

I'm not suggesting water baptism as a public profession of faith is insignificant. The bottom line is water baptismal spiritual regeneration subscribers, who can do anything with water but walk on it, need to look elsewhere to corroborate their keys to the kingdom, akin to circumcision, being a hazing requirement to achieve the hope of salvation. Perhaps it's elsewhere; but, Nicodemus in his carnal mind didn't have a clue about Spiritual rebirth; and, I hazard to say water baptismal spiritual regeneration subscribers need to sharpen their pencils on Spiritual rebirth!

kayaker

 

[kayaker]

I know I don't know everything but I'm trying. You haven't answered this question. If I understand you correctly, Paul shouldn't have sins before being baptized. He had been praying for three days, had hands layed on him, received his sight and yet what does Ananias say? 16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.’

What does the passage say he did to wash away his sins?

I'm real curious which translation you're using T6. I've looked at probably ten translations of Acts 9:18 on Biblehub.com, and I cannot find the words you are quoting from that verse. I didn't find any translation that was explicitly clear that Paul was water baptized, just baptized. And, likely we both agree there there is more than one baptism involving water. So, that sorta begs the question. But, I find no explicit reference to Paul being water baptized in Acts 9:18 NIV, Acts 9:18, KJV, Acts 9:18 ESV, Acts 9:18 NSV, Acts 9:18 NAS, Acts 9:18 ISV... Undoubtedly, the translation you're using assumes Paul's baptism was with water, but I've not been able to corroborate that explicit notion in quite a number of translations.

I prefer the KJV, but will review verses from other translations, most of which are re-translations of the KJV. Rarely, but I will quote other translations when more clarity is provided.

Interestingly, with or without water baptism, before or after water baptism... baptism of the Holy Spirit doesn't appear to be all fell swoop, as in a total download, although I do suggest such happened to Paul.

kayaker

 

[turbosixx]

I'm real curious which translation you're using T6. I've looked at probably ten translations of Acts 9:18 on Biblehub.com, and I cannot find the words you are quoting from that verse. I didn't find any translation that was explicitly clear that Paul was water baptized, just baptized. And, likely we both agree there there is more than one baptism involving water. So, that sorta begs the question. But, I find no explicit reference to Paul being water baptized in Acts 9:18 NIV, Acts 9:18, KJV, Acts 9:18 ESV, Acts 9:18 NSV, Acts 9:18 NAS, Acts 9:18 ISV... Undoubtedly, the translation you're using assumes Paul's baptism was with water, but I've not been able to corroborate that explicit notion in quite a number of translations.

I prefer the KJV, but will review verses from other translations, most of which are re-translations of the KJV. Rarely, but I will quote other translations when more clarity is provided.

Interestingly, with or without water baptism, before or after water baptism... baptism of the Holy Spirit doesn't appear to be all fell swoop, as in a total download, although I do suggest such happened to Paul.

kayaker

If the verse you’re asking about is the one you have in my quote that is Acts 22:16. As for which translation I use, I use several but my primary is NASB. I use NIV a lot for discussion because it’s easier to read which I hope helps get my point across, but I don’t rely on it for authority. KJV is what I consider to be the most accurate word for word translation and is what I use when I have questions about what we are being told.

As for Paul’s baptism, I see it as water. I could go into the reason why but I’d like to make a point first. People are quick to point out Eph. 4:5 and say, “there is only one baptism and it’s Holy Spirit”. I would strongly suggest there is one baptism and its water. Peoples understanding of baptism “with" the Holy Spirit is a misconception.

The bible tells us baptism "with" the Holy Spirit happened only twice in scripture and in each circumstance it was a special situation, the apostles and the first Gentile converts.
Jesus tells the apostles they would be baptized with the Holy Spirit and we know they were on Pentecost.
Acts 1:4 Gathering them together, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised, "Which," He said, "you heard of from Me; 5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."
He describes it as being “clothed” in Luke 24:49 And behold, I am sending forth the promise of My Father upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high."

Now when Cornelius was baptized with the Holy Spirit, notice what Peter says about it.
Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as He did upon us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'
By this time, Peter had seen thousands of conversions but he says as “us at the beginning”.

I know of no other instances where the bible tells us someone was baptized "with" the Holy Spirit. I understand we receive the Holy Spirit at conversion but it’s not the same as being baptized "with" the Holy Spirit and I believe scripture proves it.

 

[turbosixx]

I'm not suggesting water baptism as a public profession of faith is insignificant.

What scripture/s are you basing this on?

 

[lifeisgood]

I know I don't know everything but I'm trying. You haven't answered this question. If I understand you correctly, Paul shouldn't have sins before being baptized. He had been praying for three days, had hands layed on him, received his sight and yet what does Ananias say? 16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.’

What does the passage say he did to wash away his sins?

Is this the passage you're talking about:

New International Version (Acts 9:16-20)
Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord--Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here--has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit." Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul's eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized [with the Holy Spirit], and after taking some food, he regained his strength. Saul spent several days with the disciples in Damascus. At once he began to preach in the synagogues that Jesus is the Son of God.

There is no record of Paul ever being water baptized. There are only two passages in the entire New Testament that mention Paul being baptized. But which baptism did he receive?
http://www.biblestudying.net/baptism6.html

 

[God's Truth]

Is this the passage you're talking about:

New International Version (Acts 9:16-20)
Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord--Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here--has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit." Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul's eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized [with the Holy Spirit], and after taking some food, he regained his strength. Saul spent several days with the disciples in Damascus. At once he began to preach in the synagogues that Jesus is the Son of God.

There is no record of Paul ever being water baptized. There are only two passages in the entire New Testament that mention Paul being baptized. But which baptism did he receive?
http://www.biblestudying.net/baptism6.html

Paul was water baptized, and he water baptized other people.

Do not twist the word of God to defend your beliefs.

We can be given the Holy Spirit before a water baptism, but that does not mean I would ever try to manipulate scripture to say something it does not.

Paul was water baptized. Why else would he need to get up.

Acts 22:16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.'


If you stop trying to defend your false beliefs and stick to the truth, you will have wisdom, then people will try to block you and not speak to you because they are ensnared and want their truth instead of God's Truth.

 

[kayaker]

If the verse you’re asking about is the one you have in my quote that is Acts 22:16.

Ahhh! Thanks for bringing this to my attention, T6! I was looking at Acts 22:18 KJV. But, on that note, it is interesting:

Acts 22:16 KJV "And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord."​

I conclude Paul's sins were figuratively washed away by calling on the 'name' of the Lord. Being baptized in the 'name' of the Jesus is quite commonly referred to in the NT. And, I delve deeper into Jesus' ancestry being the foundation of His 'name' referring, thereto. So, being baptized in the 'name' of Jesus involved the ancestral illumination Jesus was (and is) Messiah. Why didn't pre-repentant Paul & Co. accept Jesus as Messiah? They just didn't believe? Paul and those Pharisees were quite astute in the OT. They had legal grounds for saying Jesus wasn't Messiah. Jesus was a descendant of Pharez (Matthew 1:3, Luke 3:33), eldest twin son of Judah, prophesied progenitor of Messiah (Isaiah 65:9), and Judah's daughter-in-law, Tamar (Genesis 38:24, 29, 30). The quandary of Jesus' day was how could Messiah be a descendant of Pharez, conceived and born out of wedlock (Genesis 38:24, 26, 29), from a relationship contrary to Leviticus 18:15 KJV, Leviticus 20:12 KJV, Leviticus 21:7 KJV, Leviticus 21:9 KJV, Leviticus 21:13 KJV, and Leviticus 21:14 KJV? That's what pre-repentant Paul's OT fluent running buddies were saying (John 8:41 KJV). Then, how was Paul's perception of Jesus, changed? He was baptized in the 'name' of Jesus. God wrote the aforementioned Levitical Law, and only God could change it... and, He did... and there's vastly more to that story!

Paul being figuratively washed of his sins involved his lack of understanding Jesus was the prophesied Messiah. Paul was running with the Pharisee religious elite who'd tainted Paul's perception of who Messiah could be based on Mosaic Law. Speaking of such aforementioned laws, how does one Biblically reconcile Jesus being Messiah, then? I conclude, Paul was figuratively washed of his misperceptions of OT law that precluded Jesus' authenticity... Paul was washed of his sins being baptized in the 'name', the ancestry of Jesus. I'm of no resolve that Paul was or wasn't water baptized. But, Paul was clearly, in my mind, baptized in the 'name' of Jesus... His authenticity, despite Levitical Law to the contrary.

As for which translation I use, I use several but my primary is NASB. I use NIV a lot for discussion because it’s easier to read which I hope helps get my point across, but I don’t rely on it for authority. KJV is what I consider to be the most accurate word for word translation and is what I use when I have questions about what we are being told.

You are indeed quite astute to do so, I humbly suggest!

As for Paul’s baptism, I see it as water. I could go into the reason why but I’d like to make a point first. People are quick to point out Eph. 4:5 and say, “there is only one baptism and it’s Holy Spirit”. I would strongly suggest there is one baptism and its water. Peoples understanding of baptism “with" the Holy Spirit is a misconception.

I can't totally disagree with your perception that Paul was water baptized; I cannot find clarity. With all due respect, either way, water baptism (as was John the Baptizer's) does not hold a candle to being baptized in the 'name' of Jesus, His ancestry, His divine origin, irrefutable knowing that Jesus is Messiah, full cognizance Jesus is the Son of God... a job for the Holy Spirit (Matthew 14:26 KJV). Yet, other than as happened to Paul, I submit being baptized in the Holy Spirit is not a one-fell swoop, a 20-gig download, respectfully.

I appreciate your bringing up Ephesians 4:5 KJV, and do agree with you this verse is taken out of context in my mind. There is only ONE Spiritual baptism of the Holy Spirit, per se. There are multiple types of baptisms beginning with water, and Spiritual, and the twain are not mutually exclusive in my understanding. In other words, one can achieve either, or both; but, I don't see the option of both, or none. Speaking of other baptisms... Jesus' baptism was by "fire" involving ancestral "division" as He mentioned in Luke 12:49 KJV, Luke 12:50 KJV, Luke 12:51 KJV, Luke 12:52 KJV, Luke 12:53 KJV... noting Jesus intentionally failed to mention "division" between father-in-law, and son-in-law. And, I direct your attention to John 18:13 KJV being that collusion (John 11:47, 48, 49, 50, 51) was imperative for Jesus to fulfill the commandment He received from His Father (John 10:17, 18, 19, speaking of "division").

The bible tells us baptism "with" the Holy Spirit happened only twice in scripture and in each circumstance it was a special situation, the apostles and the first Gentile converts.
Jesus tells the apostles they would be baptized with the Holy Spirit and we know they were on Pentecost.

I admire your "with" distinction, T6. Luke tells us John the Baptist was "filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb" (Luke 1:15 KJV). JTB's mother Elizabeth "was filled with the Holy Ghost" (Luke 1:41 KJV. After his birth, JTB's father "Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost" (Luke 1:67 KJV, Luke 1:68 KJV). Even promptly after Jesus' birth came Simeon, and "the Holy Ghost was upon him" (Luke 2:26 KJV, Luke 2:27 KJV, Luke 2:28 KJV, Luke 2:29 KJV, Luke 2:30 KJV).

Acts 1:4 Gathering them together, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised, "Which," He said, "you heard of from Me; 5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."
He describes it as being “clothed” in Luke 24:49 And behold, I am sending forth the promise of My Father upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high."

I trust clearly you see here there is more than one kind of baptism, per se. How does one reconcile Jesus' post-resurrection words in John 20:21 KJV, John 20:22 KJV? I can only conclude receiving the Holy Ghost is not a one-fell-swoop, 20-gig download, respectfully, although I do suggest such happened to Paul. If you'll tolerate my humor, I've not seen a light shining around anyone, lately.

Now when Cornelius was baptized with the Holy Spirit, notice what Peter says about it.

Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as He did upon us at the beginning. 16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'

By this time, Peter had seen thousands of conversions but he says as “us at the beginning”.

I trust you hear the distinction between water baptism, and Spiritual baptism? These two baptisms are not mutually exclusive, and John the Baptizer was certainly "filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb" (Luke 1:15 KJV). I am curious when you think Peter was referring to "us at the beginning"? Was Peter referring to Pentecost (Acts 2:4 KJV)? Before Jesus ascended (John 20:20 KJV, John 20:21 KJV)? Perhaps, before?

I know of no other instances where the bible tells us someone was baptized "with" the Holy Spirit. I understand we receive the Holy Spirit at conversion but it’s not the same as being baptized "with" the Holy Spirit and I believe scripture proves it.

With respect to your notion "with"; possessing the Holy Spirit is the key issue in our minds, if I may be so presumptuous. Those accounts in Luke substantially suggest being "filled with" the Holy Ghost, or the Holy Ghost "fell upon" Simeon, although not "baptized", per se. So, I do respect being filled "with" the Holy Ghost, although such is evidently not a 20-gig download, respectfully. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but the "in" aspect of being baptized "in" the Holy Ghost may suggest to you that submersion "in" water accomplishes the task? Clearly there's no mention folk were baptized 'with' the 'name' of Jesus. Folk were baptized "in" the "name" of Jesus, which I perceive being OT knowledge that refutes the Pharisee notion Jesus couldn't be the ancestrally authentic Messiah being Pharez is in His ancestry.

Please explain the greater significance of being baptized "with", or "in" the Holy Spirit to help me understand your posture, T6, if you will? How is this significant to you?

kayaker

 

[lifeisgood]

Paul was water baptized, and he water baptized other people.

Do not twist the word of God to defend your beliefs.

We can be given the Holy Spirit before a water baptism, but that does not mean I would ever try to manipulate scripture to say something it does not.

Paul was water baptized. Why else would he need to get up.

Acts 22:16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.'


If you stop trying to defend your false beliefs and stick to the truth, you will have wisdom, then people will try to block you and not speak to you because they are ensnared and want their truth instead of God's Truth.

You need to learn to read for understanding.

 

[God's Truth]

When people were water baptized, they confessed their sins, then they went under the water and came up calling on his name. Just like Paul was told to do.

We call on the name of the Lord for help after we confess and repent of our sins.

We have to obey. We call on his name AFTER we confess and REPENT of our sins.

Acts 22:16
And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name

Did you read that?

We call on Jesus to help us after we admit we are sinners, confess, and repent of our sins.


Acts 2:21
And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.'

Romans 10:13 for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

2 Timothy 2:19
Nevertheless, God's solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: "The Lord knows those who are his," and, "Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness."

 

[God's Truth]

You need to learn to read for understanding.

You do not get understanding from God by reading. You can read the Bible a thousand times and not get understanding.

That is not how God gives understanding.

God does not give understanding to those who read the Bible a certain number of times.

God gives understanding to those who obey.

Would you like the scriptures that prove that?

 

[God's Truth]

The reason why people are not saved in the exact order anymore of first hearing, then believing and confessing in their heart and mouth is because most do not hear the true gospel anymore from another person, another person who then immediately water baptizes them.

That is how it was done with the Apostles.

The Apostles spoke the true gospel that saves, then the people either believed and were given the Holy Spirit at the same time as water baptism, or they were immediately water baptized after receiving the Holy Spirit.

It does not happen like that anymore.

We have to search for God, just as God has said we will have to do.

 

[lifeisgood]

You do not get understanding from God by reading. You can read the Bible a thousand times and not get understanding.

That is not how God gives understanding.

God does not give understanding to those who read the Bible a certain number of times.

God gives understanding to those who obey.

Would you like the scriptures that prove that?

You need to learn to read for understanding.

 

[turbosixx]

Is this the passage you're talking about:

New International Version (Acts 9:16-20)
Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord--Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here--has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit." Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul's eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized [with the Holy Spirit], and after taking some food, he regained his strength. Saul spent several days with the disciples in Damascus. At once he began to preach in the synagogues that Jesus is the Son of God.

There is no record of Paul ever being water baptized. There are only two passages in the entire New Testament that mention Paul being baptized. But which baptism did he receive?
http://www.biblestudying.net/baptism6.html

I see what you are saying and that is a good point. He was told he would receive his sight and then he would be filled with the Holy Spirit and looking at the verse we see he receive his sight and the he was baptized.

Nowhere in either passage does the bible say Paul was baptized with the Holy Spirit. Now, if it was Holy Spirit baptism, why would the Holy Spirit be waiting on Paul? Why would Paul need to get up? He would need to get up to be water baptized but not Holy Spirit baptized.

Acts 22:16 And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’ NKJV

Acts 9:18 Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized. NKJV

This is in keeping with how Jesus said to make disciples:
Matt. 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, NKJV

Paul himself baptized those who believed the gospel.
Acts 18:8 Then Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his household. And many of the Corinthians, hearing, believed and were baptized. NKJV