ECT WHAT ACTS 2:28 REALLY MEANS !!

[turbosixx]

They were all UNDER the cloud.
They all passed THROUGH the sea.
They were 'baptized' INTO MOSES.
TRANSLATION: Paul is saying that they believed what Moses told them and that that belief saved them, meaning, they followed the instructions of Moses.

I would suggest to you that Paul is giving the Corinthians a warning.
1 Cor. 10:11 These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us,

To help them take the warning to heart, he shows them they are following Christ just as the exiles followed Moses. To help them better see the parallel with them, he uses water baptism because both groups came through water. Yes, the exiles didn't get wet but if water is not a part of the equation, why even mention they were under the cloud and in the sea, twice??

Do you deny that this is water baptism?
Matt. 18:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

If you do, we have no further need for discussion.

 

[lifeisgood]

That's two baptisms, I thought there was only one?

Only ONE baptism that saves.

Water baptism does not save.
Water baptism is a symbol of the baptism that saves.

 

[lifeisgood]

I would suggest to you that Paul is giving the Corinthians a warning.
1 Cor. 10:11 These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us,

To help them take the warning to heart, he shows them they are following Christ just as the exiles followed Moses. To help them better see the parallel with them, he uses water baptism because both groups came through water. Yes, the exiles didn't get wet but if water is not a part of the equation, why even mention they were under the cloud and in the sea, twice??

Salvation from heaven = under the cloud.
In the sea = already saved.

Do you deny that this is water baptism?
Matt. 18:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

If you do, we have no further need for discussion.

Jesus is making the point that every member of the Trinity is active in the conversion of a sinner in which water baptism is a symbol.

A saved person becomes a new creature.
The Father becomes our heavenly Father.
The Son becomes our Lord.
The Spirit our indwelling enabler.

And in the act of baptism we submit ourselves to all three, and we pledge allegiance to all three participating of water baptism.

 

[turbosixx]

Jesus is making the point that every member of the Trinity is active in the conversion of a sinner in which water baptism is a symbol.

A saved person becomes a new creature.
The Father becomes our heavenly Father.
The Son becomes our Lord.
The Spirit our indwelling enabler.

And in the act of baptism we submit ourselves to all three, and we pledge allegiance to all three participating of water baptism.

How would you achieve this without be baptized in water?

 

[turbosixx]

Only ONE baptism that saves.

Water baptism does not save.
Water baptism is a symbol of the baptism that saves.

Then water baptism is usless. Why would Jesus say baptize the believers?

 

[lifeisgood]

How would you achieve this without be baptized in water?

Jesus Christ and what He did on the Cross of Calvary did that the moment I believed Him and what He did.

No water involved at all.
I was baptized into Christ and what He did.

 

[lifeisgood]

Then water baptism is usless. Why would Jesus say baptize the believers?

Not useless at all.

Water baptism is a symbol that you died, were buried, and resurrected in newness of life when you believed Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary.

 

[turbosixx]

Jesus Christ and what He did on the Cross of Calvary did that the moment I believed Him and what He did.

No water involved at all.
I was baptized into Christ and what He did.

How do you see this verse?
16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

 

[turbosixx]

Not useless at all.

Water baptism is a symbol that you died, were buried, and resurrected in newness of life when you believed Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary.

What good is a symbol if it's not how we die with Christ?

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Not useless at all.

Water baptism is a symbol that you died, were buried, and resurrected in newness of life when you believed Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary.

Until the resurrection, the Holy Spirit lives in us with these old bodies.

That is the reason for water baptism of these old bodies.

Some things of the law are still necessary.

LA

 

[lifeisgood]

How do you see this verse?
16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Those who believe in Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary (the Gospel) will be baptized into Christ and saved and those who reject the Gospel will be lost.

No water baptism involved in the baptism that saves.

 

[lifeisgood]

Until the resurrection, the Holy Spirit lives in us with these old bodies.

Yes, however not because of water baptism but because of the baptism that saves.

That is the reason for water baptism of these old bodies.

Incorrect.

The Holy Spirit comes to live in these old bodies the moment we are baptized into Christ.

Nothing to do with water baptism but all to do with the baptism that saves.

Water baptism is a symbol of the baptism that has saved one.

Some things of the law are still necessary.

LA

NOTHING from the law is necessary TO BE SAVED.
Either Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary is a FINISHED/COMPLETED work to save one or it is not.

No water baptism necessary for salvation but only the baptism that saves.

 

[lifeisgood]

What good is a symbol if it's not how we die with Christ?

The symbol tell us exactly what happened in the baptism that saved us:
- we died with Christ
- we were buried with Christ
- we were resurrected in newness of life with Christ.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Yes, however not because of water baptism but because of the baptism that saves.



Incorrect.

The Holy Spirit comes to live in these old bodies the moment we are baptized into Christ.

Nothing to do with water baptism but all to do with the baptism that saves.

Water baptism is a symbol of the baptism that has saved one.



NOTHING from the law is necessary TO BE SAVED.
Either Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary is a FINISHED/COMPLETED work to save one or it is not.

No water baptism necessary for salvation but only the baptism that saves.

Jesus disagrees with you---

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Peter disagrees with you--

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Philip disagrees with you--

Act 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Act 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
Act 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

Paul disagrees with you.--

Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.


LA

 

[turbosixx]

Those who believe in Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary (the Gospel) will be baptized into Christ and saved and those who reject the Gospel will be lost.

No water baptism involved in the baptism that saves.

I think we have reached an impass. I would suggest to you that you are looking at scripture subjectivly. If you really want to understand the truth, don’t translate it, take it for what it says in context. God Bless.

 

[lifeisgood]

Jesus disagrees with you---

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Peter disagrees with you--

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Philip disagrees with you--

Act 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Act 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
Act 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

Paul disagrees with you.--

Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

LA

If you want to believe that Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary is not enough to save you and you need to add water baptism to be saved to complete His already finished/completed work, there's nothing I can do about that.

There has never been one person in the whole world EVER saved because they were dunked in water.

Every person that has ever been saved EVER has been because they BELIEVE not because they got wet.

 

[lifeisgood]

I think we have reached an impass. I would suggest to you that you are looking at scripture subjectivly. If you really want to understand the truth, don’t translate it, take it for what it says in context. God Bless.

Believe = get saved = no water involved.

Water baptism = symbolism of being already saved = symbolism showing death/burial/resurrection in Christ.

 

[heir]

If you want to believe that Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary is not enough to save you and you need to add water baptism to be saved to complete His already finished/completed work, there's nothing I can do about that.

There has never been one person in the whole world EVER saved because they were dunked in water.

Every person that has ever been saved EVER has been because they BELIEVE not because they got wet.

Amen! Great post!

 

[turbosixx]

Believe = get saved = no water involved.

Water baptism = symbolism of being already saved = symbolism showing death/burial/resurrection in Christ.

Coulple of questions then I will leave you with it. If we are baptized with the Holy Spirit the moment we believe, then why would Paul ask these men DID they received the Holy Spirit "when they believed"? Doesn't Paul know that is how you recieve the Holy Spirit.

Acts 19:1 It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples. 2 He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit." 3 And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism." 4 Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus." 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying. 7 There were in all about twelve men.


Why doesn't Paul question what they believed or if they believed, if belief is how we receive the Holy Spirit? If belief is how we are baptized into Christ?

If water baptism is only a symbol of being already saved, then why did Paul baptize these people, who had already gotten wet, again?

 

[lifeisgood]

Couple of questions then I will leave you with it. If we are baptized with the Holy Spirit the moment we believe, then why would Paul ask these men DID they received the Holy Spirit "when they believed"? Doesn't Paul know that is how you recieve the Holy Spirit.

Spoiler

Acts 19:1 It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples. 2 He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit." 3 And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism." 4 Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus." 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying. 7 There were in all about twelve men.

No, we ARE NOT baptized WITH the Holy Spirit the moment we believe.

The baptism WITH the Holy Spirit is a separate work and is NOT automatic.

It is the same thing when the Lord said to the disciples and the ones with them ‘don’t go do anything in my name UNTIL you are baptized WITH the Holy Spirit,' which happened at Pentecost, way after they had been baptized in Christ.

“Then why would Paul ask these men DID they received the Holy Spirit "when they believed"? Doesn't Paul know that is how you recieve the Holy Spirit.”

They were baptized into Christ.
Yet not baptized with the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

The text is so clear, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit."

Paul KNEW that they had been saved, however, they had no idea that they needed the baptism with the Holy Spirit, and Paul knew that they didn’t have it either.

Why doesn't Paul question what they believed or if they believed, if belief is how we receive the Holy Spirit? If belief is how we are baptized into Christ?

Belief is how we are baptized into Christ but is not how we receive the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

If water baptism is only a symbol of being already saved, then why did Paul baptize these people, who had already gotten wet, again?

You do realize that Paul only water baptized very few, then he said he was not going to water baptize anyone because the Lord Jesus Christ had not called him to water baptize, right.

It was not Paul’s rule to water baptize because he said that the Lord had not sent him to water baptize anybody, but to preach the Gospel that points to the baptism that saves.