ECT True or False question (Billy Graham)

[genuineoriginal]

So the fact that we are CREATED IN CHRIST as new creatures....given the earnest of the Spirit means nothing?

Being created in Christ as a new creature does not mean nothing, but it does not mean you have already received the promised eternal life.
Being given the earnest of the spirit does not mean nothing, but it does not mean you have already received the promised eternal life.

The promise of eternal life is conditional and you can violate the conditions of that promise as many have already done.

 

[genuineoriginal]

It is true but I don't expect a Mormon to believe it.

You are a Mormon?
I thought you were just deceived by MAD OSAS doctrines.

 

[Lon]

It is true but I don't expect a Mormon to believe it.

Genuine is a Mormon?

 

[glorydaz]

Being created in Christ as a new creature does not mean nothing, but it does not mean you have already received the promised eternal life.
Being given the earnest of the spirit does not mean nothing, but it does not mean you have already received the promised eternal life.

The promise of eternal life is conditional and you can violate the conditions of that promise as many have already done.

Do you know what earnest money is? God gave us the earnest of the Spirit. Are you saying God will renege on the deal? That He is NOT able to perform the work He began in us?

 

[glorydaz]

We don't agree on the blood, as I said you are looking at it naturally, God didn't need to come as a human sacrifice to appease himself of his own wrath to save us. That's nonsense, he's far above us for that and God can't die in any way. Jesus came to bare witness to the truth and he saves us by the gospel, by the ministry of reconciliation and God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, and those who believe and have faith in God and Christ are saved the grace of God. Death doesn't save anyone, life saves, death is darkness and those who killed Jesus we were under the power of darkness and God isn't darkness in any way whatsoever. And it says in the Bible that we are saved by the life of Christ. The death we are reconciled by is death to self. Jesus was dead to his flesh, and we too are to be dead to flesh to be reconciled to God through him, and it's by this death that we glorify God. That's why Jesus said follow me (below,) because he too was dead to self will and lived by the will of God, to glorify him.

Jesus' death to self she says. :nono:

She not only denies Jesus is God, but she denies the blood. opcorn:

Rom. 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.​

 

[meshak]

Salvation: one time shot and we are somewhat responsible for keeping/maintaining it? One time shot and a done deal?

Isnt that what OSAS doctrine that Calvinists believe?

 

[marhig]

BUT, Paul wasn't obeying when the Lord met him on the road to Damascus, was he? He was busy arresting all those who believed in Jesus. But, the LORD chose Paul for this very purpose.

In fact, Paul was the PATTERN to those who came after.....Believe on HIM to everlasting life.

1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.​

Believing IS obeying. The obedience of faith. Saved by grace through faith.

Romans 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
​

How can anyone obey until they hear? I'm not talking about Paul obeying before he knew the truth, but rather obeying when he heard the truth. When Paul heard Jesus, his first words we're, "Lord, what would you have me to do". He obeyed straight away.

And faith is a gift, entering into our hearts and increasing by hearing the word of God which is given freely by God through those baring witness to the truth through Christ, and we are blessed to have a chance to hear God's word, and believing is a choice, we can believe the word of God when we hear it, or not. And obedience is doing what we are told to do when we believe. We are not told that we have to believe, but we are given a choice, we can believe the truth or not. To obey God, is to live right before him. And the obedience of faith means that we will obey God when we live by faith. Because to live by the will of God is to obey, and those who have true faith live by his will and obey him.

1 Peter 4

Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf. For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator


And yes Paul was a pattern, he followed the pattern that Jesus set forth and lived by the way and by the same example because Christ was in him, and once Christ is made manifest within our hearts, then our hearts should be changing to be like his and we should be living more and more like him as we decrease, and he increases in our hearts by the power of the Spirit. Paul walked the walk and he partook in the sufferings of Christ, he was doer of the word and not a hearer only, and he obeyed God daily in his life, turning from the ways of the flesh and living by the will of God.

Romans 6:16

What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

 

[marhig]

Once joined to Christ as His Body, there is no way He separates Himself from the believer, any more than you can up and walk away from an ear, hand or foot.

You would cut off an ear a hand or a foot if it were badly infected and couldn't be healed and in danger of causing death though wouldn't you? Because if not, then the poisoned member can infect the whole body if left.

Those who continue in God's goodness receive God's goodness, and those who don't continue in God's goodness and live by his will, will be cut off.

Romans 11

Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

 

[marhig]

Jesus' death to self she says. :nono:

She not only denies Jesus is God, but she denies the blood. opcorn:

Rom. 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.​

Of course Jesus was dead to self, he was completely dead to self, dead to self will and dead to the flesh and he lived by the will of God and through that death we are reconciled to God, because by Jesus being dead to self, he glorified the father, and we didn't see the fleshly life of Jesus because that was dead, he didn't live by the will of the flesh ever, but by the will of God, and he never sinned once and we saw the perfect way, the perfect example and the pure love of God in and through him and Satan couldn't corrupt him in any way whatsoever because he always lived by the father's will and the father never left him, because he always did that which pleased him.

Christ Jesus was in the express image of the living God bodily and the fullness of God was in him and he brought us the gospel truthfully in word and deed, and he preached the ministry of reconciliation, and God was in him reconciling the world into himself by his word and we are saved if we truly believe through faith by the grace of God.

Also, Jesus said that the Prince of this world, (which is Satan) had nothing in him. Satan couldn't touch him because God had given Christ Jesus power over all flesh, because Jesus obeyed the commandments that God had given to him completely, and he lived by God's will and not his own.

And I see the blood as spiritual and not natural as you do. By the way, in the scriptures you have quoted, it actually says that we are saved by the life of Christ Jesus!

 

[musterion]

You would cut off an ear a hand or a foot if it were badly infected and couldn't be healed and in danger of causing death though wouldn't you? Because if not, then the poisoned member can infect the whole body if left.

Paul said members of Christ are complete and perfect in Him, because of Him, not because they keep themselves safe and attached through obedience.

Those who continue in God's goodness receive God's goodness, and those who don't continue in God's goodness and live by his will, will be cut off.

Romans 11

Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Context.

He's speaking of Gentiles in general, not members of Christ.

Read ch. 9-11 straight through. Don't cherry pick.

 

[marhig]

Paul said members of Christ are complete and perfect in Him, because of Him, not because they keep themselves safe and attached through obedience.

So you don't obey God then? What if you know something you are doing before God is wrong, do you still do it?. And there are plenty of verses in the Bible that say that we must obey God in both new and old testaments. We have free will musterion, we have a choice to do what's right or to do what's wrong. And according to Paul, we will be judged on what we do, good and bad.

Context.

He's speaking of Gentiles in general, not members of Christ.

Read ch. 9-11 straight through. Don't cherry pick.

What will the gentiles in general be cut off from that they have been grafted into? Paul is talking about those who are grafted in from a wild olive tree, to a good olive tree, they are those gentiles brought in, not gentiles in general.

And how many of the gentiles in general are holy as the firstfruit is? Because if the root is holy then so are the branches. And the branches are only holy when they are grafted into the tree and are receiving water and feeding from the root. And that's not the gentiles in general.

Romans 11

For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

 

[meshak]

So you don't obey God then? What if you know something you are doing before God is wrong, do you still do it?. And there are plenty of verses in the Bible that say that we must obey God in both new and old testaments. We have free will musterion, we have a choice to do what's right or to do what's wrong. And according to Paul, we will be judged on what we do, good and bad.




What will the gentiles in general be cut off from that they have been grafted into? Paul is talking about those who are grafted in from a wild olive tree, to a good olive tree, they are those gentiles brought in, not gentiles in general.

And how many of the gentiles in general are holy as the firstfruit is? Because if the root is holy then so are the branches. And the branches are only holy when they are grafted into the tree and are receiving water and feeding from the root. And that's not the gentiles in general.

Romans 11

For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Excellent sister Amen

 

[musterion]

So you don't obey God then?

Did I say I do not obey Him?

You're a slanderer like your father the Devil. You can't stand before Scripture cited correctly so you flee to slanderous questions that are supported by NOTHING I have said.

The olive tree is not figurative of Israel. It is figurative of the place of God's blessing. The Gentile nations have obtained the blessing of God's grace DESPITE Israel's failure, since going all the way back to Moses, Israel was intended to be the channel of God's blessing to the rest of the world (the nation of priests). But God's grace bypassed blinded Israel and negated all national distinctions...Israel was cut off for unbelief, as will unbelieving Gentile nations when this dispensation of grace ends. That's what Romans ch. 9-11 is about...nations, not individuals.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Did I say I do not obey Him?

You're a slanderer like your father the Devil. You can't stand before Scripture cited correctly so you flee to slanderous questions that are supported by NOTHING I have said.

The olive tree is not figurative of Israel. It is figurative of the place of God's blessing. The Gentile nations have obtained the blessing of God's grace DESPITE Israel's failure, since going all the way back to Moses, Israel was intended to be the channel of God's blessing to the rest of the world (the nation of priests). But God's grace bypassed blinded Israel and negated all national distinctions...Israel was cut off for unbelief, as will unbelieving Gentile nations when this dispensation of grace ends. That's what Romans ch. 9-11 is about...nations, not individuals.

"God's grace bypassed blinded Israel and negated all national distinctions"

You should check and see if Israel will be redeemed. You are right about the national divisions of men being done away with.

She actually pointedly and rightly discerned the exact truth....you want to name call the innocent of your false charges because you are found to be at very least, ignorant of the Truth.



Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

 

[musterion]

"God's grace bypassed blinded Israel and negated all national distinctions"

You should check and see if Israel will be redeemed.

Absolutely, Israel will be restored to service to God.

But not during this dispensation of grace. To do so now would make Him a respecter of persons.

 

[God's Truth]

Absolutely, Israel will be restored to service to God.

But not during this dispensation of grace. To do so now would make Him a respecter of persons.

God doesn't care about blood relations to Abraham. God cares only about blood relations to the shed blood on the cross of his Son.

The only Israel that matters is spiritual Israel, and it is an Israel of the saved in Christ.

 

[popsthebuilder]

John 3: 19. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

John 3: 19. And this is the test by which men are judged--the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness more than they loved the Light, because their deeds were wicked. 20. For every wrongdoer hates the light, and does not come to the light, for fear his actions should be exposed and condemned. 21. But he who does what is honest and right comes to the light, in order that his actions may be plainly shown to have been done in God.

(But we aren't to believe that obedience means anything?!?!)

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

 

[glorydaz]

Of course Jesus was dead to self, he was completely dead to self, dead to self will and dead to the flesh and he lived by the will of God and through that death we are reconciled to God, because by Jesus being dead to self, he glorified the father, and we didn't see the fleshly life of Jesus because that was dead, he didn't live by the will of the flesh ever, but by the will of God, and he never sinned once and we saw the perfect way, the perfect example and the pure love of God in and through him and Satan couldn't corrupt him in any way whatsoever because he always lived by the father's will and the father never left him, because he always did that which pleased him.

Sorry, I can't get past this first bit of malarky, so the rest is left unread.

Besides which, it sickens me to hear our Lord's dying on the cross tossed aside like He was a piece of chopped liver. Foolish foolish woman. You have out foolished God's UNtruth.

 

[glorydaz]

Excellent sister Amen

Yep...children of the devil. :devil: :devil:

 

[glorydaz]

"God's grace bypassed blinded Israel and negated all national distinctions"

You should check and see if Israel will be redeemed. You are right about the national divisions of men being done away with.

She actually pointedly and rightly discerned the exact truth....you want to name call the innocent of your false charges because you are found to be at very least, ignorant of the Truth.



Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

The Three Stooges are of one accord. :rotfl:


Oops, make that four. Gut just showed up.