toldailytopic: Women preaching from the pulpit. Is it wrong?

[BillyBob]

The Word of God does not contradict itself.

Now there's a thread topic if I ever saw one.

Btw, are you a female? I only ask because of your username. Seems slightly provocative. There is a tradition of assigning a letter to the cups....B...C..[or hopefully] D!!!

Oh wait, you could just as easily be the equipment manager for the Denver Broncos. :shocked:

 

[elohiym]

1 Timothy 2:12

Women are not to teach men. Women are not to teach men. Are women to teach men? Nope.

(Using your logic...)

1 Timothy 2:15

Women are saved through child bearing. Women are saved through child bearing. Are barren women able to be saved? Nope.

 

[cups]

(Using your logic...)

1 Timothy 2:15

Women are saved through childbearing. Women are saved through child bearing. Are barren women able to be saved? Nope.

Jesus. He was a baby once. That's what childbearing means. Eve was a transgressor.

 

[elohiym]

Jesus. He was a baby once.

Yes. He was born of woman.

That's what childbearing means.

No. The term "childbearing" does not mean Jesus was a baby once.

Eve was a transgressor.

Yes. Your point?

 

[Buzzword]

God will call whom He will call to what He will call them.
Anything we do that is counter to His call only harms the called individual and our witness as individuals and as a body of believers.

[/thread.]

 

[cups]

Your point?

Put on your big boy pants and quit running in circles.

 

[Sherman]

Let's evaluate these proof texts before I say anything.


1 Corinthians 14:34-35
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.


Note Paul brings up the law. Let me ask you this: Is the Body of Christ compelled to be under the Law? I say not. The letters to the church at Corinth present a unique situation. There are many Jews in the congregation. Paul in these letters address many other uniquely Jewish customs such as head coverings and passover.


1 Timothy 2:12
12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.
Note the little word 'I'. Paul doesn't permit it. He's from a Jewish back ground.
Take a look at this scripture from the book of Acts—a prophecy. This does not look like silence on the part of women to me.
Acts 2: 16-18
16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17 ‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy.

In conclusion, these instructions were given to keep the services orderly and to not cause offense. In a synagogue women had to keep quiet and to wear head coverings. Today the Church doesn't use head coverings or keep other Jewish customs. It shouldn't be enforcing this one of silence for women either. We don't follow Jewish Law.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Well if women were held to that standard in a regular church service that they could not speak at all. Not even a whisper then it wouldn't be very inviting to others, seekers, who don't understand the distinction. Although the women who do understand and respect a certain level of understanding can practice what they know to be Biblical. The elders (male as the Bible teaches) should always maintain control of the pulpit and the metting of the church.

Amen...

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Now there's a thread topic if I ever saw one.

Btw, are you a female? I only ask because of your username. Seems slightly provocative. There is a tradition of assigning a letter to the cups....B...C..[or hopefully] D!!!

Oh wait, you could just as easily be the equipment manager for the Denver Broncos. :shocked:

You're kind of a "silly goof" aren't ya??

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

God will call whom He will call to what He will call them.
Anything we do that is counter to His call only harms the called individual and our witness as individuals and as a body of believers.

[/thread.]

Except, we KNOW God doesn't call women to the pastorate, elder ship nor any other form of authority over the church...

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Put on your big boy pants and quit running in circles.

Good post!!!

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Let's evaluate these proof texts before I say anything.


1 Corinthians 14:34-35
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.


Note Paul brings up the law. Let me ask you this: Is the Body of Christ compelled to be under the Law? I say not. The letters to the church at Corinth present a unique situation. There are many Jews in the congregation. Paul in these letters address many other uniquely Jewish customs such as head coverings and passover.


1 Timothy 2:12
12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.
Note the little word 'I'. Paul doesn't permit it. He's from a Jewish back ground.
Take a look at this scripture from the book of Acts—a prophecy. This does not look like silence on the part of women to me.
Acts 2: 16-18
16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17 ‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy.

In conclusion, these instructions were given to keep the services orderly and to not cause offense. In a synagogue women had to keep quiet and to wear head coverings. Today the Church doesn't use head coverings or keep other Jewish customs. It shouldn't be enforcing this one of silence for women either. We don't follow Jewish Law.

However, Paul was speaking to "gentile" believers as well, so you're wrong in your assumption...

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

(Using your logic...)

1 Timothy 2:15

Women are saved through child bearing. Women are saved through child bearing. Are barren women able to be saved? Nope.

It speaks of physically being saved not Spiritually...

 

[Sum1sGruj]

However, Paul was speaking to "gentile" believers as well, so you're wrong in your assumption...

I knew someone would happen by that notion., that it's the law and whatnot. Jesus did not take away the law, he completed the law. The Bible explicitly says this. People like to black and white it, but the fact of the matter is that the Lamb of God made much of the law obsolete. Paul said himself that the law is the yoke of slavery. It is obvious that some things such as women not preaching in church still stands, and that is precisely why Paul was teaching it in Corinthians.

What should be common sense upon reading the Bible turns merely into copy and pasting Scripture. Women not preaching in Church is not just a thing of the Old Law, but the entirety of the Bible all the way to Eden. Men are the leaders, and that's that.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I knew someone would happen by that notion., that it's the law and whatnot. Jesus did not take away the law, he completed the law. The Bible explicitly says this. People like to black and white it, but the fact of the matter is that the Lamb of God made much of the law obsolete. Paul said himself that the law is the yoke of slavery. It is obvious that some things such as women not preaching in church still stands, and that is precisely why Paul was teaching it in Corinthians.

What should be common sense upon reading the Bible turns merely into copy and pasting Scripture. Women not preaching in Church is not just a thing of the Old Law, but the entirety of the Bible all the way to Eden. Men are the leaders, and that's that.

Good post...

 

[Sum1sGruj]

Good post...

:thumb: I shall continue on even further:

1 Corinthians 11:3
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Notice that this verse is not saying what should be, it's telling what is. This is how God made man and woman, and when men and women try to go against it, deviance occurs.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

:thumb: I shall continue on even further:

1 Corinthians 11:3
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Notice that this verse is not saying what should be, it's telling what is. This is how God made man and woman, and when men and women try to go against it, deviance occurs.

That's truth from the Bible that cannot be refuted...

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

toldailytopic: Women preaching from the pulpit. Is it wrong?

Yes.

LBC 1689: 26.9
The way appointed by Christ for calling any person qualified and gifted by the Holy Spirit for the office of bishop or elder, is that he is to be chosen by the communal vote of the church itself. He shall be solemnly set apart by fasting and prayer, with the laying on of hands by the elders of the church (if there are any previously appointed bishops or elders). Similarly, a deacon is also to be chosen by vote of the church and set apart by prayer, with the laying on of hands.

Belgic Confession, Article 30
We believe that this true church must be governed by that spiritual policy which our Lord hath taught us in His Word, namely, that there must be ministers or pastors to preach the Word of God and to administer the sacraments; also elders and deacons, who, together with the pastors, form the council of the church; that by these means the true religion may be preserved and the true doctrine everywhere propagated, likewise transgressors punished and restrained by spiritual means; also that the poor and distressed may be relieved and comforted, according to their necessities. By these means everything will be carried on in the church with good order and decency, when faithful men are chosen according to the rule prescribed by St. Paul in his epistle to Timothy.

WCF:
Nothing explicit on the topic of male ministers as the WCF is saturated with the concept of male leadership throughout, making the matter moot.

Finally, and most importantly, there is Holy Writ:

1 Ti 3:1 The saying [is] trustworthy: if anyone aspires to supervision, he desires a good work.
1 Ti 3:2 Therefore the overseer must be irreproachable, the husband of one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, skillful in teaching,
1 Ti 3:3 not addicted to wine, not a violent person, but gentle, peaceable, not loving money,
1 Ti 3:4 managing his own household well, having children in submission with all dignity
1 Ti 3:5 (but if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?),
1 Ti 3:6 not newly converted, lest he become conceited [and] fall into the condemnation of the devil.
1 Ti 3:7 But [he] must also have a good testimony from those outside, in order that he may not fall into disgrace and the trap of the devil.

See also Titus 1:6.

Now some women occupying some pulpits may claim to be the "husband of one wife", :AMR:, but I, ahem, disagree.

The matter is not cultural, but is grounded in the creation and the fall. See 1 Tim 2:13. And please don't appeal to Galatians 3:28 with some sort of egalitarian interpretive lens, the same hermeneutical lens that is used to justify homosexuality.

See also:
http://www.apuritansmind.com/pastors-study/the-public-preaching-of-women-by-r-l-dabney/

http://www.apuritansmind.com/pastor...king-in-the-church-by-dr-benjamin-b-warfield/

Getting the distinctions between the roles of men and women is vital here. A good starting place for resources on the matter: http://www.cbmw.org

Quite simply, women teaching men in a church is an act of rebellion.

AMR

 

[Angel4Truth]

Men and women back then sat on separate sides in public places, women for the first time were able to be present for spiritual teachings. As such they were disruptive calling out to their husbands on the other side - questions about the new things they were learning.

As such they were instructed of the need to be silent and ask their husbands at home so they did not continue to disrupt.

In the same chapter where its saying for them to be silent and not speak, it also talks about women praying and openly prophesying in the church.

So to state this emphatically means women cannot be active in the church is errant.

There were also female pastors and Paul ordained deaconesses.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Men and women back then sat on separate sides in public places, women for the first time were able to be present for spiritual teachings. As such they were disruptive calling out to their husbands on the other side - questions about the new things they were learning.

As such they were instructed of the need to be silent and ask their husbands at home so they did not continue to disrupt.

In the same chapter where its saying for them to be silent and not speak, it also talks about women praying and openly prophesying in the church.

So to state this emphatically means women cannot be active in the church is errant.

There were also female pastors and Paul ordained deaconesses.

Women, according to the Bible cannot be in a position of authority within the confines of the church...Period...