Lovin the Zappa...
toldailytopic: Imagine by John Lennon: love it or hate it?
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
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Lovin the Zappa...
elohiym
Well-known member
Matthew 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
some other dude
New member
That would be John Lennon!
Perfect example of applicable scripture.
John Lennon the hypocrite.
elohiym
Well-known member
elohiym
Well-known member
Matthew 7:2 For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.
some other dude
New member
Lennon wrote:
"Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people sharing all the world"
while sitting on $150 million, living in a Manhatten apartment co-op and being waited on by servants.
I don't think I'm very far off in judging him to be a hypocrite.
I don't like that particular song. I don't dislike all songs about peace. Much of heavy metal music is an indictment of violence. There are even metal songs that are written to the honor of God.
| Shadow of Deth - Megadeth | |
elohiym
Well-known member
Matthew 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
some other dude
New member
Yes, thank you. Did Lennon do that?
elohiym
Well-known member
elohiym
Well-known member
This is a normative claim.
This is an analytic claim.
Do you understand the inherint fallacy in your line of reasoning? Besides, SoD isn't a millionairre.
eameece
New member
Not a fan, but at least it is better than the banal drivel written by his Beatles companion Paul McCartney in the embarrassingly cheesy song called "Freedom".
I personally think The Beatles is a wildly overrated band. I'll grant them a role in the history of music, but it concerns a part of music I have absolutely no interest in, and that is of course pop music. I have infinitely more respect for the the genius of musicians such as Miles Davis, John Coltrane and Thelonious Monk (just to mention a few) that did just as much for music (I would argue that they did more and fare more radical things as well) both before and at the same time as The Beatles, yet they are not nearly mentioned as much as The Beatles when it comes to the history of music.
There is also the prog rock scene which started while The Beatles existed, I also find this far more interesting. Beatles may have played a part as a forerunner, but in terms of final product I think an album such as "In the Court of the Crimson King" by King Crimson is a far more interesting contribution.
But I shall end my rant about The Beatles now :chuckle:
OK, good rant. Now I'll start mine.
I thought when it came out in 1971 that it was a fairly mediocre song with lyrics that expressed the dreams that I had on my own, and many others had in the hippie era; indeed he was not the only one.
I respect Coltrane and the others, but John and the Beatles made music I can enjoy and is powerful, though some of it is screechy and not very good. But the best of their music, from Revolver and Rubber Soul, was as great as anything of the era including prog rock and jazz, and very innovative. Without those 2 albums, there would have been no prog rock at all.
elohiym
Well-known member
False. At least, the sense of what you've conveyed is false. Clearly, "millionairre" doesn't apply in this case, since we aren't talking about US dollars. But it's obvious that he was rich:
"And when the young man had heard this word, he went away sad: for he had great possessions. [23] Then Jesus said to his disciples: Amen, I say to you, that a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. [24] And again I say to you: It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 19:22-24).
Please refer to Acts 5:3-5. I'm inclined to say that there is a difference in kind between the counsel given to the rich man in the Gospel of Matthew and the practices of the early Christians described in Acts.
eameece
New member
Part two; about the lyrics.
I think by 1971 most people were free from the idea that there was heaven, or hell below us; although I think he and others later (at least) recognized and were interested in other spiritual realms which might be called heaven. But as punitive methods employed by an oppressive church, it was good they were already out of fashion. Living for today is overrated too; we live now, and yet that now is richer and more successful with past and future and other dimensions, as long as we are not addicted to worry about them.
We would all be much better off without countries. The nation state is already an anachronism; it's just a matter of time before it becomes irrelevant, and certainly not worth fighting wars over. "NO religion too" refers again to the punitive oppressive religion, but if we interpret this to mean "only ONE religion," then many of us know that is already true, that all religions are one at their highest point; only folks like a lot of posters here don't know that.
Christ's followers had no possessions and shared them with each other. If and when people have enough faith in the divine presence as the source of our supply, we won't need to hang on to possessions. But most of us don't have that much faith yet; I certainly don't. Right now, people are fear and greed motivated, so it will take a while.
As of now, the song itself has grown on me to an extent, and its popularity is amazing, as surveys and the fact that it could be sung in Times Sq on New Years Eve to a national audience and 2 million people live show. The message resonates to people on a deep level, because they know that John's vision is important; impractical for now yes, but realizable when human consciousness expands and matures enough. What can be conceived, can be achieved. Visions move us forward; without vision the people perish.
I think by 1971 most people were free from the idea that there was heaven, or hell below us; although I think he and others later (at least) recognized and were interested in other spiritual realms which might be called heaven. But as punitive methods employed by an oppressive church, it was good they were already out of fashion. Living for today is overrated too; we live now, and yet that now is richer and more successful with past and future and other dimensions, as long as we are not addicted to worry about them.
We would all be much better off without countries. The nation state is already an anachronism; it's just a matter of time before it becomes irrelevant, and certainly not worth fighting wars over. "NO religion too" refers again to the punitive oppressive religion, but if we interpret this to mean "only ONE religion," then many of us know that is already true, that all religions are one at their highest point; only folks like a lot of posters here don't know that.
Christ's followers had no possessions and shared them with each other. If and when people have enough faith in the divine presence as the source of our supply, we won't need to hang on to possessions. But most of us don't have that much faith yet; I certainly don't. Right now, people are fear and greed motivated, so it will take a while.
As of now, the song itself has grown on me to an extent, and its popularity is amazing, as surveys and the fact that it could be sung in Times Sq on New Years Eve to a national audience and 2 million people live show. The message resonates to people on a deep level, because they know that John's vision is important; impractical for now yes, but realizable when human consciousness expands and matures enough. What can be conceived, can be achieved. Visions move us forward; without vision the people perish.
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eameece
New member
some other dude
New member
Nice sidetrack. I have no interest in discussing whether Lennon was a Christian or wasn't a Christian or should have followed Christ's instructions to the rich young man.
He was a hypocrite in that he wrote a song in which he envisioned a better world with no possessions while amassing a fortune and living in the lap of luxury.
eameece
New member
And dinosaurs are the appropriate arbitrators for human musical taste. :dunce: