toldailytopic: Can God change His mind?

[rainee]

Can God change His mind?

At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it; If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them. And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it; If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them. Jer. 18:7-10​

You are killing me, Chickenman.
Yes, I can love you - but you? You are killing me.

Please consider if you would accept any of this offered:

Rule number one
Remember your Scripture started with Adam not Israel.
Rule two
All prophecy is about The Lord Jesus Christ.
Oops what did I say? Jesus the Jewish Messiah.

From here you have to work out how calling and making Israel was going to work for the good of all.

But before you do - remember the first problem.
If God is God what is the relationship between Him and the evil one?

People will say the evil one does the dirty work of God.
Sure they do - some will even say Satan is the "bad" of God made manifest.

How stupid are they? Hopefully way more stupid than you.

God is good.

Some will say God is good because whatever God does is done as God and "God makes right."
This is a theological thought that kills me. Yes much like y'all kill me.
The idea "might makes right" and that supposedly helps you understand "God is always good" no matter what happens is
wrong, imho.

God is always good. Because He really is good.

But that means if we ook at the relationship between Him and the evil one in Job for example we notice two things. One, we aren't having this relationship explained to us.

And two - something is strange about it.

Does God want bad to happen according to this account? No.

Is He God? Yes.

Does the devil do anything that God has not allowed to happen? No.

But does God want these things to happen? No.

Reading it, He doesn't think Job deserves them or we deserve them.
And apparently if there were not an evil one - just in drawing from this one account - then many things would not happen.

But. God puts this way imho to acknowledging that the buck always has to stop with Him, but that there is more to the story than what we know.

Leading ultimately to Jesus and what He did for us.

But then we see Judas.

Is Judas a picture in human form of something of the early relationship between God and the evil one? Is that how the evil one does wield a certain amount of power?
Maybe.

Now look at what you quote in Jeremiah (scream scream scream) Paul describes this very thing in Romans.

How do you explain to Israel why after all those promises
that the Gentiles are coming to what should be Israel's
Good News while they get a time out?

You can go back and show two things - one is that God tells them (like here in Jeremiah) and shows an example (like in Nineveh.)

And two, you can remind everyone that this all started with Adam.
The story, the fall, the need - all starts with Adam.

So it was his bad that led to Abraham's good.
Israel's bad led to Gentile's good.
And then
Anyway the plan is just like a big long carpet unrolling and laying down.
And the devil and death will be dealt with as enemies.
And one day we will understand everything.

 

[Zeke]

Can God change His mind?

At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it; If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them. And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it; If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them. Jer. 18:7-10​

It doesn't get much more conclusive than this. So you can go ahead and move onto the next ToD, Knight. :e4e:

Don't tell me your falling for this as well! Gods revealed will isn't what He is up to, He has a hidden intent that is withheld from man until after the fact, the cross being a prime example of God not opening their eyes and mind so He could heal them because it wasn't His will at that time to do so for obvious salvation issue's concerning the world.
You think God had a light bulb go off after Jonah was swallowed by the whale as being a good sign for Christs death buriel and resurrection, or that the scene with Moses where God had a case of memory loss is really anything other than Gods will to show the role of the mediator, by this little acting Job on Gods part?, if God can change His mind in the way the open view is presenting then your not secure in unmerited favor, it wouldn't be wrong for Him to withdraw the offer because you never deserved it in the first place.

Gods the potter and isn't ignorant of mans nature and heart, when He tells them to do something knowing full well its impossible for them to do its for a reason hidden from them.

Take a cold shower, Romans 11:33-35, Psalms 2:4.

 

[john w]

Judas repented of taking the money. He did not repent in his heart for his sin, because God did not grant him saving repentance.

And God is not a man, that He should repent. (Especially on the very low level as Judas' repentance.)

This is actually a very bad comparison to make, Johnny. God Almight should never be compared to man at all, let alone a human traitor who died in disgrace.

tsk tsk

I wonder what your mommy would say . . .

Nang

My mommy would tell you, as usual, you missed it, obviously-"..... God Almight should never be compared to man at all,"-Nag Nang


Judas repented. The LORD God repented. I know, it's pretty deep, but take a deep breath, and mediate on that for a spell, Ellie Mae Nag Nang. I did. Perhaps you were predestined to figger it out.

 

[john w]

Judas' remorse doesn't make any difference. What he did was unforgivable. When he went out, it was night, and satan entered.

He did not repent, because no repentance was granted to him.

"He did not repent,"-Judas's spiritual brother andyc, CainIAm

vs.

Mt. 27
3Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,


Contrasts, as contrasting as Judas/Cain/andyc, vs. and Abel.

 

[chickenman]

Gods the potter and isn't ignorant of mans nature and heart...

Who said He was? Not me, Zeke.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Glad you said that. "Changed His mind" is nowhere in scripture.

So now you are arguing that it must be written in your favorite colloquialism for it to be scriptural? Then don't be dense when the same concept is written in a different colloquialism.

Genesis 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.​

1 Samuel 15:35 And Samuel came no more to see Saul until the day of his death: nevertheless Samuel mourned for Saul: and the LORD repented that he had made Saul king over Israel.​

2 Samuel 24:16 And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD was by the threshingplace of Araunah the Jebusite.​

1 Chronicles 21:15 And God sent an angel unto Jerusalem to destroy it: and as he was destroying, the LORD beheld, and he repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed, It is enough, stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD stood by the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite.​

Psalm 106:45 And he remembered for them his covenant, and repented according to the multitude of his mercies​

Jeremiah 26:19 Did Hezekiah king of Judah and all Judah put him at all to death? did he not fear the LORD, and besought the LORD, and the LORD repented him of the evil which he had pronounced against them? Thus might we procure great evil against our souls.​

...and more besides these...

 

[john w]

"…… Repentance means to turn from sin... We have to turn from our evil deeds in order to receive salvation…Before God justifies us, we have to choose to repent and commit ourselves to him..We are repenting of our sin nature, as well as asking for forgiveness of sins previously committed…."-andycain

"Any person who lives his life wrongly and does not repent of his sins, will be held responsible and judged for breaking God's laws and are justly consigned to death and hell. Sinners only receive what they have earned. Men reap what they sow."-Nag Nang

"That's the way, uh huh, uh huh,I like it, uh huh, uh huh...that's the way, uh huh, uh huh, I like it, uh huh, uh huh..." andycain and the Nang No Sunshine Band

 

[Zeke]

Who said He was? Not me, Zeke.

Does God change His mind from surprise or is it part of His will to do so all along? I may have mistakin your intent if so, I am sorry, but it seemed like you were agreeing with the open view stance.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Does God change His mind from surprise or is it part of His will to do so all along?

God's will is to change His mind from judgment to mercy.

Ezekiel 22:30 And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none.​

But often He has to go against His will and change His mind from blessings to curses.

Malachi 2:2 If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, to give glory unto my name, saith the LORD of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart.​

 

[andyc]

"He did not repent,"-Judas's spiritual brother andyc, CainIAm

vs.

Mt. 27
3Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,


Contrasts, as contrasting as Judas/Cain/andyc, vs. and Abel.

His repentance was not from sin, as no such repentance would be acknowledged by God. It was a self centred response, as his eventual suicide proved.

Peter said, "he has gone where he belongs", and obviously he was not talking about heaven.

 

[john w]

His repentance was not from sin, as no such repentance would be acknowledged by God. It was a self centred response, as his eventual suicide proved.

Peter said, "he has gone where he belongs", and obviously he was not talking about heaven.

vs.

"He did not repent,"-Judas's spiritual brother andyc, CainIAm


vs.

"…… Repentance means to turn from sin... We have to turn from our evil deeds in order to receive salvation…Before God justifies us, we have to choose to repent and commit ourselves to him..We are repenting of our sin nature, as well as asking for forgiveness of sins previously committed…."-andycain

When you are in a ditch, brother of Judas, stop digging.

And get saved.

 

[Lon]

So now you are arguing that it must be written in your favorite colloquialism for it to be scriptural? Then don't be dense when the same concept is written in a different colloquialism.

Genesis 6:6​ And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

1 Samuel 15:35 And Samuel came no more to see Saul until the day of his death: nevertheless Samuel mourned for Saul: and the LORD repented that he had made Saul king over Israel.​

2 Samuel 24:16 And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD was by the threshingplace of Araunah the Jebusite.​

1 Chronicles 21:15 And God sent an angel unto Jerusalem to destroy it: and as he was destroying, the LORD beheld, and he repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed, It is enough, stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD stood by the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite.​

Psalm 106:45 And he remembered for them his covenant, and repented according to the multitude of his mercies​

Jeremiah 26:19 Did Hezekiah king of Judah and all Judah put him at all to death? did he not fear the LORD, and besought the LORD, and the LORD repented him of the evil which he had pronounced against them? Thus might we procure great evil against our souls.​

...and more besides these...​

Yep, doesn't say 'changed His mind,' does it? In addition, I posted on Open Theism 3 page 2 what the problem was but you've never addressed the matter other than repetition of the above. Go ahead, dig out a concordance. "Repented" is a translation of the word 'to sigh' but we are dealing with the particular mentioned. "Changed His mind" is nowhere in scripture.

​

 

[andyc]

vs.

"He did not repent,"-Judas's spiritual brother andyc, CainIAm


vs.

"…… Repentance means to turn from sin... We have to turn from our evil deeds in order to receive salvation…Before God justifies us, we have to choose to repent and commit ourselves to him..We are repenting of our sin nature, as well as asking for forgiveness of sins previously committed…."-andycain

When you are in a ditch, brother of Judas, stop digging.

And get saved.

Oh dear

To repent, simply means to change and go in another direction, but the word has evolved to where it is usually understood today as turning from sin. You wouldn't hear too many people using that word without sinful connotations today.

"I repented of travelling in the wrong direction on the freeway"? ...No.

So, yes, in the older translations, to repent means to change in various ways, but Judas didn't repent from sin back to faith in Christ. His remorse was purely self centred.

 

[john w]

Oh dear

To repent, simply means to change and go in another direction, but the word has evolved to where it is usually understood today as turning from sin. You wouldn't hear too many people using that word without sinful connotations today.

"I repented of travelling in the wrong direction on the freeway"? ...No.

So, yes, in the older translations, to repent means to change in various ways, but Judas didn't repent from sin back to faith in Christ. His remorse was purely self centred.

Bait'nswitch-present a moving target:

"but Judas didn't repent from sin back to faith in Christ. His remorse was purely self centred."-anydycain

vs.

"He did not repent,"-Judas's spiritual brother andyc, CainIAm

"To repent, simply means to change and go in another direction, but the word has evolved to where it is usually understood today as turning from sin"-andycain

vs.

"…… Repentance means to turn from sin... We have to turn from our evil deeds in order to receive salvation…Before God justifies us, we have to choose to repent and commit ourselves to him..We are repenting of our sin nature, as well as asking for forgiveness of sins previously committed…."-andycain

Deeper, and deeper....straight jacket...

"has evolved"-Judas Jr.

And an evoutionist. "Oh dear."

 

[andyc]

Bait'nswitch-present a moving target:

"but Judas didn't repent from sin back to faith in Christ. His remorse was purely self centred."-anydycain

vs.

"He did not repent,"-Judas's spiritual brother andyc, CainIAm

"To repent, simply means to change and go in another direction, but the word has evolved to where it is usually understood today as turning from sin"-andycain

vs.

"…… Repentance means to turn from sin... We have to turn from our evil deeds in order to receive salvation…Before God justifies us, we have to choose to repent and commit ourselves to him..We are repenting of our sin nature, as well as asking for forgiveness of sins previously committed…."-andycain

Deeper, and deeper....straight jacket...

Snippets of quotes strung together from multiple posts is not an honest way to represent someone's position. Repentance from sin is an attitude of the heart, and if this attitude is genuine there will be fruit.

Acts 26:19-20
"Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, "but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.

I know you hate this because you hate repentance, and that's why you remove it from your flesh friendly gospel.

 

[chickenman]

Does God change His mind from surprise or is it part of His will to do so all along? I may have mistakin your intent if so, I am sorry, but it seemed like you were agreeing with the open view stance.

That's a bifurcation (either/or fallacy, or false dilemma fallacy), Zeke. Stick to what I very specifically said and you'll avoid that and other things like Bulverisms (your first response to me). That's always the safest bet in a discussion.

The phrase "change His mind" is really bothersome to you and others. So maybe we're not speaking the same language. So let me ask this question:

Can God say He is going to do something and then choose NOT to do what He said He would do?

Thanks, brother.
Randy

 

[john w]

Snippets of quotes strung together from multiple posts is not an honest way to represent someone's position. Repentance from sin is an attitude of the heart, and if this attitude is genuine there will be fruit.

Acts 26:19-20
"Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, "but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.

I know you hate this because you hate repentance, and that's why you remove it from your flesh friendly gospel.

vs.

"…… Repentance means to turn from sin... We have to turn from our evil deeds in order to receive salvation…Before God justifies us, we have to choose to repent and commit ourselves to him..We are repenting of our sin nature, as well as asking for forgiveness of sins previously committed…."-andycain

"from your flesh friendly gospel'-Judas Jr.

Good one....987,765th for this sound byte.


Your "good news," "unfleshly:"

" Repentance means to turn from sin... We have to turn from our evil deeds in order to receive salvation"

Bad news...admits he is lost.

"if this attitude is genuine there will be fruit."-Judas, Jr.

I see......"genuine"...."will be fruit."

Translation: I, Judas Jr., once again confirm that I am clueless as to what happened to the sin/sins, issue 2000 years ago, and why, as I talked to my Muslim, Buddhist neighbor just this morning, and told them they are saved, as they have a "genuine attitude," and they have "fruit."

You talk like them. They talk like you. We know.


Get saved, perverter.

 

[sky.]

And here I thought that jw was calling Knight a Judas.

 

[andyc]

vs.

"…… Repentance means to turn from sin... We have to turn from our evil deeds in order to receive salvation…Before God justifies us, we have to choose to repent and commit ourselves to him..We are repenting of our sin nature, as well as asking for forgiveness of sins previously committed…."-andycain

"from your flesh friendly gospel'-Judas Jr.

Good one....987,765th for this sound byte.


Your "good news," "unfleshly:"

" Repentance means to turn from sin... We have to turn from our evil deeds in order to receive salvation"

Bad news...admits he is lost.

"if this attitude is genuine there will be fruit."-Judas, Jr.

I see......"genuine"...."will be fruit."

Translation: I, Judas Jr., once again confirm that I am clueless as to what happened to the sin/sins, issue 2000 years ago, and why, as I talked to my Muslim, Buddhist neighbor just this morning, and told them they are saved, as they have a "genuine attitude," and they have "fruit.

You talk like them. They talk like you. We know.


Get saved, perverter.

The removal of repentance from sin from your gospel = no gospel.
You're only into the feel good carnal flesh fest message.

 

[andyc]

No "fixin' up, committing your life...surrendering your life...exhibiting a subjective, emotional, genuine, sincere desire for change....turning from sin....stop committing sin.......blah blah blah"=

Luke 13:3 .....unless you repent you will all likewise perish.

Luke 24:47 "and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Acts 3:19 "Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,

Mark 6:12 So they went out and preached that people should repent.

2 Corinthians 7:10 For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death.

2 Timothy 2:25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

Take your self righteous," genuinely... sincerely...desire..." "commitment" and stuff it. The LORD God needs nothing from you, will not justify you based upon your "intentions", your "commitment" your "sincerity", your "genuineness",

Acts 8:13 Then Simon himself also believed; and when he was baptized he continued with Philip, and was amazed, seeing the miracles and signs which were done................

But Peter said to him, "Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money! 21 "You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God. 22 "Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you. 23 "For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity."

In order to get around these awkward verses, the hyper dispensationalists invent different gospels for different dispensations, but you never see them mentioned in scripture.