toldailytopic: Can God change His mind?

[HisServant]

An NFL referee knows the when the game will start and knows what conditions will signal the end of the game. It doesn't follow that therefore the referee also knows all the details in-between.

Likewise, God knows the end from the beginning but that doesn't mean He has settled all the events in-between.

I disagree.. God has the game rigged so the referees calls have the outcome predetermined.

 

[Artguy]

Can God change His mind?

Normally I just read the posts and smile a bit, but I like this question.
I have to say, if God can't change his mind when he likes he wouldn't be much of a God and if he didn't change his mind from time to time I kind of think we would all have been toast a long time ago.

 

[PureX]

God is dealing with free will agents besides Himself.

The angels... mankind...

Therefore God reacts to their actions. Yes God is capable.

But it's a matter of relative perspective. God chose to give us free will, and already knows what we will do with it. So he isn't really "reacting" to an unknown so much as responding to an inevitability. (I'm only saying this for the sake of discussion, I don't really think the question even applies.)

 

[Nathon Detroit]

I disagree.. God has the game rigged so the referees calls have the outcome predetermined.

That isn't what we find in God's word.

God is merciful. Do you believe that?

To demonstrate mercy, God must have the ability to change His mind. God's mind can change from judgement to mercy (or vice versa) depending on your action.

I thank God for His mercy.

The story of Nineveh demonstrated this concept on the book of Jonah.

Jonah Chapter 3

Jonah Preaches at Nineveh
1 Now the word of the Lord came to Jonah the second time, saying, 2 “Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and preach to it the message that I tell you.” 3 So Jonah arose and went to Nineveh, according to the word of the Lord. Now Nineveh was an exceedingly great city, a three- day journey in extent. 4 And Jonah began to enter the city on the first day's walk. Then he cried out and said, “Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!”

(Knight's note, judgement had been made by God, Nineveh was toast! They had 40 more days and that was it.)

The People of Nineveh Believe

(Knight's note, whats this? The people repented based on God's judgment, praise the Lord!)

5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest to the least of them. 6 Then word came to the king of Nineveh; and he arose from his throne and laid aside his robe, covered himself with sackcloth and sat in ashes. 7 And he caused it to be proclaimed and published throughout Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste anything; do not let them eat, or drink water. 8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily to God; yes, let every one turn from his evil way and from the violence that is in his hands. 9 Who can tell if God will turn and relent, and turn away from His fierce anger, so that we may not perish?
10 Then God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God relented from the disaster that He had said He would bring upon them, and He did not do it.

(Knight's note, thankfully God is a merciful God and not a stone idol. The people repented and therefore God relented. God changed His mind and did not destroy Nineveh.)

 

[amanneredfool]

Can God change His mind?

Normally I just read the posts and smile a bit, but I like this question.
I have to say, if God can't change his mind when he likes he wouldn't be much of a God and if he didn't change his mind from time to time I kind of think we would all have been toast a long time ago.

Yet the Scriptures affirm He doesn't change His "mind" on His decrees.


“For I the LORD do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed. Malachi 3:6 ESV

 

[chickenman]

If he knows the end.. he knows everything in between.. and must be happy with what happens in between, so him ever changing his mind would kind of be unnecessary.. wouldn't it?

Here's what God says about "knowing the end".

Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am god, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it. Is. 46:9-11​

He knows the end, according to this passage, because He has planned it and plans to bring it to pass.

Who knows when the end is. Until that time comes, there are billions of lives and countless of events with which God can interact if He so chooses. And in all of that, He is capable of doing - or not doing - according to His purpose. And according to Jeremiah 18 et al, He reserves the right to say He will do something and then decide to NOT do it, depending upon what others do.

Jeremiah 18 is hard to get around.

Randy

 

[Nathon Detroit]

But it's a matter of relative perspective. God chose to give us free will, and already knows what we will do with it.

By definition free actions cannot be known. If they were known, they would be restricted by that knowledge.

We have only two options...

- Freedom of will (unrestricted by God's knowledge)
- Predetermined or pre-known will (restricted by God's knowledge)

God's word makes it clear that our will is free to do what is against God's will (that's the entire story of the Bible when it gets right down to it).

How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

 

[chickenman]

Yet the Scriptures affirm He doesn't change His "mind" on His decrees.


“For I the LORD do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed. Malachi 3:6 ESV

Man says to his wife: "You haven't changed a bit in the 20 years I've known you."

Does he mean that she has never changed her mind, or that she has never changed in character (or something else)?

Since we see numerous examples of God relenting, then how can one say He does not? Malachi 3:6 must, therefore, be speaking of His character. In Malachi 3, He speaks of how He will treat His chosen people as He always has, both in terms of judgment and in terms of mercy. And just like He did with them centuries prior to that, if they turned to Him, He would return to them.

Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the Lord of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return? Mal. 3:7​

He can do or not do...but that doesn't change Who He is.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

God's word makes it clear that our will is free to do what is against God's will (that's the entire story of the Bible when it gets right down to it).

I'm sure you've addressed this before, but I don't recall what you said. How do you address this?




Revelation 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

Revelation 17:17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.




It seems that, at least in this case, their will isn't free to go against God's will.

 

[HisServant]

To demonstrate mercy, God must have the ability to change His mind. God's mind can change from judgement to mercy (or vice versa) depending on your action.

So you believe you are equal with God and your choices can cause him to change his mind?

 

[PureX]

By definition free actions cannot be known. If they were known, they would be restricted by that knowledge.

That's only true within the actor. But in this case the actor is not the omniscient one. God is. So although we (the actor) don't know what choice we will make until we make it, God (the omniscient) still can. Our "freedom" exists because of our limited knowledge.

God's word makes it clear that our will is free to do what is against God's will (that's the entire story of the Bible when it gets right down to it).

Yes, but this doesn't preclude God from knowing what we will choose before we choose it. Nor does it invalidate the idea that God set all things in motion, and knows how it will all play out.

 

[amanneredfool]

Can God change His mind?

At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it; If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them. And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it; If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them. Jer. 18:7-10​

It doesn't get much more conclusive than this. So you can go ahead and move onto the next ToD, Knight. :e4e:

Hey,

I don't see God changing His eternal decree or position on sin............ return to me/repent and you shall live.

Can God change His mind?

Normally I just read the posts and smile a bit, but I like this question.
I have to say, if God can't change his mind when he likes he wouldn't be much of a God and if he didn't change his mind from time to time I kind of think we would all have been toast a long time ago.

Yet the Scriptures affirm He doesn't change His "mind" on His decrees.


“For I the LORD do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed. Malachi 3:6 ESV

Man says to his wife: "You haven't changed a bit in the 20 years I've known you."

Does he mean that she has never changed her mind, or that she has never changed in character (or something else)?

Since we see numerous examples of God relenting, then how can one say He does not? Malachi 3:6 must, therefore, be speaking of His character. In Malachi 3, He speaks of how He will treat His chosen people as He always has, both in terms of judgment and in terms of mercy. And just like He did with them centuries prior to that, if they turned to Him, He would return to them.

Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the Lord of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return? Mal. 3:7​

He can do or not do...but that doesn't change Who He is.

I still don't see anything unsettled, even your original example shows God knew the answer to His exhortation to return/repent and be healed/live........... men in their natural depraved being don't believe God -
“But they say, ‘That is in vain! We will follow our own plans, and will every one act according to the stubbornness of his evil heart.’ Jeremiah 18:12 ESV

Malachi 3 speaks of 2 groups....... the mockers & those "god fearers" who will be/are His treasured possession. Again, I see nothing unsettled.

The command to repent is what everyone everywhere ought to do, according to God. That it takes the free grace of a Sovereign Holy & Just God to repent.......... there is a God honoring discussion

 

[Nang]

Anyone with an open mind and eager heart to learn all about Sovereign God, could easily do an online study of the divine attribute of Immutability.

Nang

 

[andyc]

God never changes his mind, otherwise he obviously didn't think things through properly in the first place, and his word would be uncertain. Do we worship an omnipotent omniscient God? Or a God who has to juggle his plans around because the future is uncertain?
Circumstances change, and God responds to those changes as a result of any conditions that have or have not been met.

Malachi 3:6 "For I am the LORD, I do not change

 

[andyc]

Can God change His mind?

At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it; If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them. And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it; If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them. Jer. 18:7-10​

It doesn't get much more conclusive than this. So you can go ahead and move onto the next ToD, Knight. :e4e:

This does not mean that God changes his mind, because his mind is clear about the conditions here from the start. It is only from a human perspective that God appears to change his mind because the repentant guilty are hoping they are not going to get what they know they deserve.

If God actually changed his mind about something he said he was going to do, and there were no conditions to base this change on, the whole universe would implode, because all things are held together by the word of his power.

If a prophet prophesied something that didn't come to pass, the prophet would be stoned to death, and so if God spoke something that didn't come to pass, he would be no less guilty. If its God its a certainty.

 

[Lon]

It is a recent colloquial term found nowhere in scripture. Rather, we know that the term used is 'to breath' as in 'to sigh.' God doesn't literally breath either so we have to be careful not to build human conceived doctrines concerning our God. Such is warned about in scripture. We know He isn't a man nor thinks like one. It is a shame to assume that restrictions that apply strictly to us as limited creatures should by any necessity apply to Him. Rather, whatever we know and trust about Him comes from His revelation alone. There is no scripture that would allow us to think of Him as 'changing His mind.' There is no change: if we do one thing, a certain set of consequences come to be. If we choose the other, a different set of consequences. That's not a change but a specific action toward our choices one way or the other. He will never change His mind about sin. He will never change His mind about appropriate behavior. What else is there that He'd change His mind about? Change then, is not in God, but rather in a fickle people who are overtly concerned with their own will rather than His.

 

[Nang]

Agreed, andy & Lon

Change of any kind works either a better or a worse. Can God be better or can He ever be worse?

Of course not. God is absolutely perfect and thus could never be better or worse, thus God never changes in His Being, purposes or promises.

 

[andyc]

Agreed, Andy. Change of any kind works either a better or a worse. Can God be better or can He ever be worse?

Of course not. God is absolutely perfect and thus could never be better or worse, thus God never changes in His Being, purposes or promises.

That's right..
There's a Psalm that says, "you have exalted your word above your name". This means that the integrity of God stands or falls on whether or not God's word is true. This is what faith is based on, to take God at his word.

2 Corinthians 1:18 But as God is faithful, our word to you was not Yes and No.

Every promise of God is yes amen.

 

[amanneredfool]

Thank you Nang, Andy & Lon, it gets kinda lonely around here, sometimes.

 

[genuineoriginal]

This means that the integrity of God stands or falls on whether or not God's word is true. This is what faith is based on, to take God at his word.

Good. Since we are taking God at His Word, we must acknowledge that He says He changes His mind. Anything else would be ignoring God's Word in favor of our own imagination.