ThePresbyteers
New member
They go to Hell because that's the only place for unrepentant sinners to go !
toldailytopic: Are some people born predestined to go to hell?
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
- Start date
glorydaz
Well-known member
Then you obviously deny the Power of God unto Salvation. Why is the Gospel to be preached except to show the TRUE LIGHT of God? Why bother with preaching the Gospel?
That's quite a problem for you since it's the very means God uses to convict men of their sin. Your claim is that darkness is greater than God's Light....do you really want to go there?
Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Even those bitten by the "poison of sin" are able to LOOK upon Christ when He is lifted up. God always makes provision for those who seek Him, and the Gospel is that provision. There isn't a person saved who isn't required to make that choice to follow the Light....thus man has NO EXCUSE.
Numbers 21:9
And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.
Amen!!!
glorydaz
Well-known member
I don't "interpret it to be such." "Flaming fire...everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord" is the second death of Revelation.
2 Thessalonians 1:7-9
And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Well in that case how do you explain how death can be cast somewhere or affected by literal fire? Most people in my experience accept that Revelation is written in allegory. Are you also familiar with the original texts and how much of the early church didn't glean eternal torment from the scriptures?
glorydaz
Well-known member
Peter didn't start the church...he was the first of the chosen twelve which comprised the foundation of the church. Jesus is the Rock...not Peter.
The "foundation" of the Prophets and Apostles was laid, with Christ being the cornerstone.....now the building goes up. Apostolic succession is a myth propagated by the Catholic Church.
1 Corinthians 3:11
For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
2COR12:9
New member
1 Thessalonians 5:9 (ESV)
For God has not destined us for wrath,
but to obtain salvation
through our Lord Jesus Christ,
For God has not destined us for wrath,
but to obtain salvation
through our Lord Jesus Christ,
This may be ambiguous to some, but for me His intentions are crystal clear; and wouldn't you know, it lines up perfectly with how I perceive God to be, a God that is love.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Cast out...swallowed up....there will be no more death.
1 Corinthians 15:54
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
I don't see Revelation as an allegory, but it isn't usually interpreted according to the whole Word of God. IMO
Hence it's taken on a "life" of it's own that requires one to ignore the entirety of Scripture to support some particular doctrine.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
In which case the fire is allegorical. Fire consumes tangible objects not intangible 'states' hence the symbolism. So if the fire is allegorical then the 'lake of fire' is also a metaphor wouldn't you say? Revelation is full of such symbolic imagery.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Calvinists do not deny the power of the gospel message, and they, more than others, understand the importance of proclaiming the good news of Jesus Christ.
Two reasons:
Faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ is the ONLY means by which souls held in bondage to sin, death, and the devil, can learn and realize their forgiveness from God and thereby be freed to serve righteousness, and . . .
That gospel message proclaimed by the witness of regenerated saints is God's means to CALL His elect to faith in His Son. (Romans 8:28-30)
The Calvinist has no idea who God is calling to faith and service in Christ's righteousness, so the Calvinist indiscriminately preaches the gospel to all he is given opportunity to share the good news, and leaves the application of spiritual truth in the hands of God. For many are called, but few are chosen. (Matthew 22:14)
Many hear the gospel call, but do not believe, because they are bereft of the regenerating Holy Spirit. (Romans 8:9) This is not in man's control, but in God's control, who He will raise to new spiritual life and give ears to hear the gospel call. (Isaiah 6:9-10)
There are multitudes of humanity throughout time, that historically have never heard the promises of God, let alone the name of Jesus Christ, who have perished in their sins, according to the purposes, will and just powers of God.
It is a blessed age we live in now since Christ's incarnation, for the gospel is being spread to all the nations as never before and the grace of God overflows to save souls out of all the races.
This was not so before Christ, when God revealed His covenants and ordinances to only the elect nation of Israel, and a very small number of elect non-Jewish souls.
This is history . . . biblical history . . . that cannot be altered or revised, but must be accepted by faith. Faith in the wisdom, goodness, and purposes of Sovereign God.
Sinful humans cannot rewrite God's mercies by ignoring His justice, just to please and pander to the sensitivities of unbelieving men.
Romans Chapter 9 teaches election and reprobation, plain and simple, and who are you, oh men, who question His ways?
Nang
Wile E. Coyote
New member
It says that He has not destined "us" to wrath. This says nothing about "them."
Well said
The verse says to obtain salvation, so it clearly is applicable to those yet unsaved - by context the "us" would be everyone.
Nang, If there was an "elect" (the kind that was chosen before the foundation of the world) then, no matter if they were witnessed to or not, they would still be saved because it would be ordained of God! In truth God's Grace is preached to
a world of lost sinners and those who respond with faith will receive mercy, forgiveness, and eternal life through the shed blood of Christ and His resurrection!!!
a world of lost sinners and those who respond with faith will receive mercy, forgiveness, and eternal life through the shed blood of Christ and His resurrection!!!
Have you read the entire Bible, word for word??
Amen and Amen!!
Have you read the entire Bible all the way through??
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Not the OT in its entirety. Do you believe Revelation is literal?
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
You know there's no real need to ask me the same question twice....
If you're a "born again Christian" I suggest you read Genesis through Revelation word for word...Revelation uses symbolism throughout,
in part...