This is what emboldened white supremacists look like

[ClimateSanity]

I think it would depend on how the monuments are taken down. If a community decides to remove one then I'm not sure how your liberty is being removed.

If it's a minority that removes them, it's totalitarian. What is going on is no different than ISIS destroying monuments. If you want to remove a culture from your society, remove it's history first. Our history has already been revised beyond recognition by the stalinists in our society. They have been taking down our visual reminders too. Soon, we will have no real history and we can safely be removed from society like has already begun. Much of the remaining members of our society have been relegated to the backwoods and left to live off government scraps and opioids.

 

[ClimateSanity]

Could it also be the same for the endless examples of vandalism that Tambora is linking to?

Is it possible that vandals are idiots, regardless of their political tribe?

All of you are totalitarian

 

[ClimateSanity]

So why do you grant that for conservatives but seem willing to broad-brush liberals?

Because you all are driven by the same philosophy. You all listen to the same people. You give sanction to your idiots and justify it. We don't.

 

[Tambora]

That's mildly amusing, seeing it coming from the very guy who reported her and wants her shut down.

HA!

Textbook example of dramatic irony. Tends to happen to the most tragically self-ignorant of characters like yourself.

Are the emboldened liberals still trying to convince someone that this has nothing to do with the 'black lives matter' movement?
Oh never mind, I already know the answer.
:thumb:

 

[WizardofOz]

Careful, ClimateSanity is foaming at the mouth.

Is it currently too warm or cold where you are?

 

[rexlunae]

If it's a minority that removes them, it's totalitarian.

It's the elected government of these communities.

What is going on is no different than ISIS destroying monuments. If you want to remove a culture from your society, remove it's history first.

No one can remove the history of the Civil War, the Confederacy, or early American history. What you can change is how we engage with it.

Our history has already been revised beyond recognition by the stalinists in our society. They have been taking down our visual reminders too. Soon, we will have no real history and we can safely be removed from society like has already begun. Much of the remaining members of our society have been relegated to the backwoods and left to live off government scraps and opioids.

These things aren't being destroyed. They're being removed from the places of honor in which they were built. You can still find Nazi artwork and statues, but for the most part, you have to find it in museums. The goal is not to rewrite the history, but to reveal it for what it was, and for that purpose, even relics of shame must be preserved. Just not in places of honor and dignity.

 

[Town Heretic]

If it's a minority that removes them, it's totalitarian.

Not necessarily. In a republic where the majority doesn't care enough a concerned minority can alter things without totalitarianism raising its head.

What is going on is no different than ISIS destroying monuments.

It's very different on a number of levels, beginning with the fact that relocation isn't destruction.

If you want to remove a culture from your society, remove it's history first.

Which no one is doing.

Our history has already been revised beyond recognition by the stalinists in our society.

Which is complete nonsense.

They have been taking down our visual reminders too.

They aren't yours. They belong to the communities that preserve and place them and if they want them down its right that they come down.

 

[WizardofOz]

If it's a minority that removes them, it's totalitarian.

So we can safely add "totalitarian" to the looong list of things you don't understand. Can we take an example of a Confederate memorial being removed and see how these things legally play out?

New Orleans begins removing second Confederate monument

The statue, which stood for 106 years, is the second monument to come down after the New Orleans City Council voted to remove the four landmarks in 2015. After years of heated public debate and legal battles, recent court decisions paved the way for the city to relocate the four monuments.

Those dang totalitarian city council members...:hammer:

What is going on is no different than ISIS destroying monuments.

Really? You don't see a single difference?
Or you willfully don't see?

If you want to remove a culture from your society, remove it's history first.

I guess Germany is wrong to remove Nazi symbolism and Russia is wrong to topple statues of Stalin...right? I mean, it's a part of their history so it must stand.

Our history has already been revised beyond recognition by the stalinists in our society.

Stalinists...

Kids say the darndest things.

They have been taking down our visual reminders too. Soon, we will have no real history and we can safely be removed from society like has already begun. Much of the remaining members of our society have been relegated to the backwoods and left to live off government scraps and opioids.

I guess that does explain something about you...

 

[Town Heretic]

Because you all are driven by the same philosophy.

Take back/make great again?

You all listen to the same people.

Fox News? Limbaugh? Savage? Drudge? Glenn Beck?

You give sanction to your idiots and justify it.

Fake news?

We don't.

lain: :rotfl:

 

[rexlunae]

I guess Germany is wrong to remove Nazi symbolism and Russia is wrong to topple statues of Stalin...right? I mean, it's a part of their history so it must stand.

For that matter, Americans and Iraqis removing statues of Saddam Hussein...

 

[drbrumley]

No, the Union was there when he arrived.

Pray tell Town, what union was this by chance? Was there a contract? An agreement of some sort? Signed by whom?

He simply kept slave owners from separating it.

I see. Those dastardly slave owners again. Of course, your blaming those who actually fought the battles as rallying behind slaveowners, thereby guilty by association.

They weren't freed by omission.

They weren't freed by commission either.

Rather, culpable by active defense and you'll likely never get it, but your descendants will.

:noid:

 

[Town Heretic]

Pray tell Town, what union was this by chance? Was there a contract? An agreement of some sort? Signed by whom?

One entered into by each state. I'm not interested in rearguing the "We had a right to withdraw!" bit that is largely used to not address why those states wanted to in the first place, the actual sponsoring point of the war that settled the question along with that issue.

I see. Those dastardly slave owners again.

Trivializing evil is never a good idea, dr.

Of course, your blaming those who actually fought the battles as rallying behind slaveowners, thereby guilty by association.

If you attempt to fight off the police who are trying to raid a whore house the fact that you aren't an owner is a thin distinction.

They weren't freed by commission either.

To be more pointed then, they were freed by action, not omission. Whatever Lincoln's failings, he worked to see that end and that end was good, as was preserving the Union against the separation of states that were intent on protecting and expanding the reach of slavery.

:noid:

:chuckle:

 

[ClimateSanity]

Idiots....see ya

 

[WizardofOz]

Idiots....see ya

:allsmile:
Backside hurting?
[MENTION=17591]ClimateSanity[/MENTION] posting on TOL

Spoiler

 

[Tambora]

I guess Germany is wrong to remove Nazi symbolism and Russia is wrong to topple statues of Stalin...right? I mean, it's a part of their history so it must stand.

Yep, their HISTORY.
A historical part of their own history should not be removed just because those today do not agree with how their history went.
That part of their history is over and the historical monuments are just that ..... HISTORICAL, and do not represent their current history.

Heck, I wouldn't want to look at a statue of Obama.
But I cannot deny he is a HISTORICAL part of our HISTORY, like him or not.
And NO PART of our history needs to be wiped out because some didn't like it.
That's just stupid and petty and making mountains out of molehills to do so.

 

[WizardofOz]

Yep, their HISTORY.
A historical part of their own history should not be removed just because those today do not agree with how their history went.
That part of their history is over and the historical monuments are just that ..... HISTORICAL, and do not represent their current history.

Heck, I wouldn't want to look at a statue of Obama.
But I cannot deny he is a HISTORICAL part of our HISTORY, like him or not.
And NO PART of our history needs to be wiped out because some didn't like it.
That's just stupid and petty and making mountains out of molehills to do so.

Look at the example of the story of Confederate memorials in New Orleans. They are being relocated, not destroyed.

Now, if a town that has such a memorial decides that they want it removed, is there a problem with them legally doing so? What's the harm?

The mayor's office said the city has secured private funding to remove the moments. Landrieu said the statues will be put in storage while the city looks for a suitable place to display them, such as a museum.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Do you think it does a good job representing all Southerners? Or just some of them?

Dont know and dont care, i know what it means to me.I dont speak for anyone but me on my opinion on it.

 

[drbrumley]

Look at the example of the story of Confederate memorials in New Orleans. They are being relocated, not destroyed.

Now, if a town that has such a memorial decides that they want it removed, is there a problem with them legally doing so? What's the harm?

The mayor's office said the city has secured private funding to remove the moments. Landrieu said the statues will be put in storage while the city looks for a suitable place to display them, such as a museum.

Ok, that's fine, then we should move the Lincoln Memorial to a museum.

 

[Angel4Truth]

For folks to see before the racists cry-baby intolerant bigoted liberals use YOUR hard earned money to destroy any remnant of our history.

And they think WE are the problem?????
ROFL!

:thumb:

 

[Tambora]

Look at the example of the story of Confederate memorials in New Orleans. They are being relocated, not destroyed.

Now, if a town that has such a memorial decides that they want it removed, is there a problem with them legally doing so? What's the harm?

It's no no problem for sheep.
They will go along which ever wind is blowing at the time.


This whole 'I'm offended' movement has gotten ridiculously stupid and embarrassing.
I honestly cannot believe folks are not embarrassed by all the hubbub from spoiled brats about historical statues, for crying out loud.