This day have I begotten you

beameup

New member
Why should I be angry? I have precedent for what I posted:

:mock:
Jewish Encyclopedia? :dizzy:
Babylonian Talmud? :chuckle:
Midrash? :nono:
These tomes were put together around 200 A.D. when Judaism was in complete disarray due to the Destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D. They reflect the concocted information of the rabbis that were trying to "recreate" Judaism without a Temple, without a priesthood, without sacrifices, without Feast-Holy Days, basically without Moses. They were also writing myths about Jesus of Nazareth in order to discredit his name. Then you are also straying into Greek Gnostic sources. :kookoo:
 

daqq

Well-known member
The historical theory has bred more hysterical sects than any Gnostic belief, who were murdered by?

One would think that such a one sporting a Mid-Acts Pauline Dispensationalist logo would know better than to start tossing out names like Gnostic but, as it was said elsewhere, no doubt, beameup bites the hand that feeds; and in this case that would be the Gnostic father of all Gnostics, Marcion, father of the modern MADites: whose canon consisted of about the same theological canon as the Mid-Acts Pauline Dispensational camp. De-book'em Danoh! Snip, snip! Instead of circumcising their own hearts they circumcise out of the scripture what they do not wish to believe, (Marcion would be proud). :chuckle:
 

daqq

Well-known member
:mock:
Jewish Encyclopedia? :dizzy:
Babylonian Talmud? :chuckle:
Midrash? :nono:
These tomes were put together around 200 A.D. when Judaism was in complete disarray due to the Destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D. They reflect the concocted information of the rabbis that were trying to "recreate" Judaism without a Temple, without a priesthood, without sacrifices, without Feast-Holy Days, basically without Moses. They were also writing myths about Jesus of Nazareth in order to discredit his name. Then you are also straying into Greek Gnostic sources. :kookoo:

The scripture references containing משיח יהוה, (Meshiah YHWH), are right there in the post.
Nothing you have said here really has anything to do with what was posted.
Smoke screen, obfuscation, denial of holy writ, de-book'em Danoh. :crackup:
 

beameup

New member
The scripture references containing משיח יהוה, (Meshiah YHWH), are right there in the post.
Nothing you have said here really has anything to do with what was posted.
Smoke screen, obfuscation, denial of holy writ, de-book'em Danoh. :crackup:

All that is necessary is a Bible and the Holy Spirit. The Spirit will guide you into all truth. I would never trust anything created by the Jews, as they have an "agenda". Similarly, I wouldn't consider anything that came out of Alexandria, Egypt after the B.C./A.D. point.
 

Ben Masada

New member
Judaism has been cast aside by Jesus Christ the Messiah and the New Testament - Judaism is not a valid faith anymore -

Okay Patrick, parting from the principle that the basis of Judaism is to observe and to teach about the Law and the Prophets as we have in Matthew 5:17-19, let's see if Jesus indeed cast his Faith aka Judaism aside as you have said or you are just talking nonsense: Jesus himself, besides his declaration to have come to fulfill all the Law and the Prophets, in a parable about the Richman and Lazarus, he said that the best way to escape hell-fire is by listening to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31)I think I have succeeded to show enough evidence that you have spoken nonsense.
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
Okay Patrick, parting from the principle that the basis of Judaism is to observe and to teach about the Law and the Prophets as we have in Matthew 5:17-19, let's see if Jesus indeed cast his Faith aka Judaism aside as you have said or you are just talking nonsense: Jesus himself, besides his declaration to have come to fulfill all the Law and the Prophets, in a parable about the Richman and Lazarus, he said that the best way to escape hell-fire is by listening to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31)I think I have succeeded to show enough evidence that you have spoken nonsense.
Judaism progressed and changed to Christianity, it's as simple as that - Judaism is a dead faith
 

Zeke

Well-known member
All that is necessary is a Bible and the Holy Spirit. The Spirit will guide you into all truth. I would never trust anything created by the Jews, as they have an "agenda". Similarly, I wouldn't consider anything that came out of Alexandria, Egypt after the B.C./A.D. point.

Yea it guided you into Roman fraud that masquerades as observable truth Luke 17:20-21, plagiarized from the Gnostic sects that taught the ancient precept of Christ within Galatians 1:12, and the hint of intent that all scripture should be interpreted by Galatians 4:24, which dances with 2Cor 3:6, a dose of 1Cor 13 does the soul good as well.
 

daqq

Well-known member
I would never trust anything created by the Jews, as they have an "agenda".

At least in that you spoke the truth, but again, you bite the hand that feeds; and how can you not see the contradiction in what you just said about every knee shall bow? Both Yeshua and Paul were Jewish, and so were all of the Apostles who wrote down the words of Yeshua, even all the Apostolic writings. You show that you really neither believe the words of Yeshua, nor Paul, nor any of the Apostolic authors, and therefore you do not bow the knee to Messiah because you do not believe his words spoken through the man Yeshua who was a Jew according to the scriptures. In fact all the scriptures you claim as your "Bible" were penned by Hebrews, Levites, and Jews; and since you see only according to the eyes of the flesh you effectively cut yourself off from what you claim to be "grafted" into. What a pitiful state of affairs king Herod has brought upon you, O king, locking you up in the prison of your own mind, (beware the leaven of Herod, as Yeshua says, [which is a particular form of doctrine]).
 

beameup

New member
At least in that you spoke the truth, but again, you bite the hand that feeds; and how can you not see the contradiction in what you just said about every knee shall bow? Both Yeshua and Paul were Jewish, and so were all of the Apostles who wrote down the words of Yeshua, bla, bla, bla, bla, bla

There you go babbling again. :dizzy: Check to see if saliva running down your cheek.
You are obviously heavily under influence of the Jewish Talmud and other phony "Jewish" writings created after 70 A.D.
As well, you appear to be heavily under the influence of Gnosticism, which was already a heresy during the time of Paul.

There is professional help available, but it may require "restraints" and some electricity. :)
 

daqq

Well-known member
There you go babbling again. :dizzy: Check to see if saliva running down your cheek.
You are obviously heavily under influence of the Jewish Talmud and other phony "Jewish" writings created after 70 A.D.
As well, you appear to be heavily under the influence of Gnosticism, which was already a heresy during the time of Paul.

There is professional help available, but it may require "restraints" and some electricity. :)

Well, you've once again succeeded in turning this into "you against me" just as the carnal man always does when he has no answer. Do you have anything to say about the actual topic? You know, if I could learn from you, I would, but you apparently having nothing to offer in the way learning. How can anyone learn from insults, accusations, and mudslinging?

What day was it that the Father said this to Yeshua???

"You are My son, this day have I begotten you."
:)

:sheep:
 

daqq

Well-known member
Ps. xviii. 51 [A. V. 50]; xx. 7 [A. V. 6]; cxxxii. 17

Psalm 132:17 LXX
17 (131:17) εκει εξανατελω κερας τω δαυιδ ητοιμασα
λυχνον τω χριστω μου

Psalm 132:17 Brenton Septuagint Translation
17 (131:17) There will I cause to spring up a horn to David: I have prepared
a lamp for mine anointed.

John 5:35 W/H
35 εκεινος ην
ο λυχνος ο καιομενος και φαινων υμεις δε ηθελησατε αγαλλιαθηναι προς ωραν εν τω φωτι αυτου

Poor, poor, Ephraim, he has no clue what he is reading:
Take him down to Yarden; let seven times pass over him.

:chuckle:
 

beameup

New member
What day was it that the Father said this to Yeshua???
"You are My son, this day have I begotten you." :)

"Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, And the Holy Spirit descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven [Father], which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased." - Luke 3:21-22

I'd be willing to bet that Jesus was baptized on Shavuot (Pentecost). The rabbinical belief was that on Pentecost "the heavens would briefly open" and a blessing would come. In the Book of Acts, the Holy Spirit came down upon the disciples/apostles as tongues of fire.

Psalm 2:7 was a prophetic utterance from outside our time domain:
"I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto ME: Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee."

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten [monogenēs] Son of God. - John 3:18
monogenēs: single of its kind, one-of-a-kind
 

daqq

Well-known member
Psalm 2:7 was a prophetic utterance from outside our time domain:
"I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto ME: Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee."

Go back and read the beginning of the thread: you now have no witness because you imagine in your vain imagination that those words were spoken somewhere "outside our time domain" and, therefore, your version of the Anointed one is disqualified because you deny that the Father ever actually spoke those words to your version of Yeshua the Anointed one. The only possible witness is Yohanan the Immerser whom the Master calls the Lamp, (from the previous post). :)
 

beameup

New member
Go back and read the beginning of the thread: you now have no witness because you imagine in your vain imagination that those words were spoken somewhere "outside our time domain" and, therefore, your version of the Anointed one is disqualified because you deny that the Father ever actually spoke those words to your version of Yeshua the Anointed one. The only possible witness is Yohanan the Immerser whom the Master calls the Lamp, (from the previous post). :)

The "monogenes" occurred at the fusion of God and man at the genetic-fusion (zygote), hence the word monogenes to describe Yeshua.

Perhaps somebody should explain to you about "the birds and bees"? :rotfl:
It appears that you have-no-clue concerning "conception". :confused:

Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name God With Us. - Isaiah 7:14
 
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daqq

Well-known member
The "monogenes" occurred at the fusion of God and man at the genetic-fusion (zygote), hence the word monogenes to describe Yeshua.

Genetic-fusion and zygotes now? :rotfl:

Do you really believe that Yeshua and his Apostles taught such buffoonery? Not that science and the modern understanding of the human reproductive system is buffoonery but that you know full well the Apostles had no knowledge of such things; and even the amount of understanding which they did have would not have been explained in such a manner. Moreover that is not what the scripture is telling us through the teachings of Yeshua which expound all spiritual and supernal things. Again, your viewpoint is nothing more than the concoctions of a carnal mind which sees all things as physical and natural. Here is the same response again from earlier today in your own "I AM" thread. I will include only the first line in my quote box but the remainder is from the same post, (so that if this post is quoted by someone the greater portion will show up in the quote box since it is my response to you again here in this thread). And in this thread, since you have already been shown to be in critical error concerning the quote from Hebrews 1:6, (found only in the Septuagint version of Deuteronomy 32:43), please remember that you have no scripture evidence for your claim that the first-begotten "entered into his creation through the birth-canal of Mary".

quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by beameup
Your creator is Jesus. All things were made by him. Then he entered into his creation through the birth-canal of Mary, and ended up dying for your sins. Now there is a man sitting on a throne in heaven.

Typical unregenrated flesh-man carnal minded understanding.
The scripture says no such thing about a "birth-canal of Mary". The only way to understand is to begin with the parables and allegories of Yeshua, which explain these things, and to begin checking into the original languages because they have been grossly misrepresented in English. For example there really is not a word or combination of words used to actually say that Mary was "pregnant" but rather it says multiple times that she was holding-retaining "en-gastri". However en-gastri means not "in the womb" but rather "in belly", and that is because the seed which Mariam retained was from consuming the Word. It is an allegory of how, once again, Messiah is formed in us, (as Paul says). So the parables about sowing, and the tares, and the earth bringing forth fruit of herself, all these actually explain this process. At the same time gaster can be used in the sense of a glutton, that is, as if a giant belly, (the flesh), along the same lines of the story of Yonah in the belly of the great fish, which in that case is koilia, (cavity), which is also used in the infancy narratives for both Elisheba and Mariam. Yet the same word, koilia, is also used for the heart or at least the chest cavity around the heart. There is always a play on words going on in the holy scriptures because they are HOLY and SPIRIT and have deep supernal meanings which exist beneath the surface text. For the same reason birth, children, sons, etc., are most often spoken of in one form or another with words that have to do with plant life reproduction, (tikto in Greek), and that is because Messiah is the one whose name is Tsemach-Branch. It is all about the seed of the Word in the kingdom of Elohim and has nothing to do with physical procreation and reproduction. Likewise the holy seed lines are all SPIRIT, and that is why the genealogies are father-to-son, and why Messiah is not born of a woman. Mariam is the final typology of Yerushalaim of above; the mother, (covenant), of those born from above. Can a man go back into the womb of his mother and be born a second time? The answer from Yeshua to Nikodemos is, Amen, Yes! and that is because he speaks of going back into the covenant and relearning-renewing the entire covenant(s) according to the Spirit, (of the Testimony of Yeshua).[End Quote. :Nineveh:
 

beameup

New member
Genetic-fusion and zygotes now? :rotfl:

Perhaps somebody should explain to you about "the birds and bees"? :rotfl:
It appears that you have-no-clue concerning "conception". :confused:

Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name God With Us. - Isaiah 7:14

And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy Child which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. - Luke 1:35
He was born the Holy Son of God.
 

daqq

Well-known member
Perhaps somebody should explain to you about "the birds and bees"? :rotfl:
It appears that you have-no-clue concerning "conception". :confused:

Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name God With Us. - Isaiah 7:14

Perhaps you should have gone and done your own investigation after what was said in your own thread earlier today, (which is now quoted above).

Isaiah 7:14 LXX
14 δια τουτο δωσει κυριος αυτος υμιν σημειον ιδου η παρθενος εν γαστρι εξει και τεξεται υιον και καλεσεις το ονομα αυτου εμμανουηλ


εν γαστρι εξει ~ "hold-retain in-stomach" (in-belly)
τεξεται - τίκτω - plant life production (as from seed)

1 Corinthians 1:26-29 KJV
26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

:sheep:
 

daqq

Well-known member
As for μητρα, the word for the physical womb, (the matrix), it is only found twice in all of the Greek New Covenant Apostolic writings:

G3388 μήτρα metra (mee'-tra) n.
the matrix.
[from G3384]
KJV: womb

The first place we find μητρα is where Luke quotes from the LXX version of the Torah, Luke 2:23, however this is merely a quote from the Torah which speaks not about the nativity account in Luke, which has already been given at this point. The text therefore merely uses an all inclusive word, as was intended in the Torah from which it is quoted, (because it also speaks of beasts and livestock, Exodus 13:2-13), and does not have to do with the infancy narrative in Luke which only uses koilia, (hollow or cavity), and gaster, (belly or stomach) when speaking of Mariam and Elisheba.

Luke 2:23 ASV
23 (as it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb
[G3388 μήτρα] shall be called holy to the Lord),

The above includes man and beast or cattle in the Torah, (Exodus 13:2-13), and therefore the usage of μήτρα is unavoidable not only because it is quoting the Torah but likewise because it also speaks of beasts, cattle, lambs, and so on. Thus, for the carnal minded interpretation of the infancy narratives, this is yet another missing link in the carnal-physical understanding because the authors clearly had the opportunity to use the word for the literal matrix or womb of Mariam and yet they did not do so, in fact, it appears they purposely avoided using the literal physical word for the womb. The usage of μητρα in Luke 2:23 actually serves to highlight this missing link in the flesh doctrine more than anything else. The only other place we find μητρα is where Paul speaks of "the deadness of Sarah's womb" in Romans:

Romans 4:19 ASV
19 And without being weakened in faith he considered his own body now as good as dead (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah's womb;
[G3388 μήτρα]

This again serves to show that Paul herein above is speaking in purely physical terms:
UNLIKE the authors of the nativity and infancy narratives! :)
 

daqq

Well-known member
What therefore does Paul intend in the following passage where he says that Elohim separated him from the koilia-hollow-belly of his mother? We know that before his spiritual rebirth he was known as Saul, a persecutor of the congregation at Yerushalaim and the faithful, and he makes mention of it all in the same passage:

Galatians 1:15
15 οτε δε ευδοκησεν ο θεος ο αφορισας με εκ κοιλιας μητρος μου και καλεσας δια της χαριτος αυτου


"εκ κοιλιας μητρος μου" ~ "from the hollow of my mother"

Galatians 1:13-16
13 For you have heard of my manner of life in time past in the religion of the Yhudim, how that beyond measure I persecuted the congregation of Elohim, and made havoc of it:
14 And I advanced in the religion of the Yhudim beyond many of mine own age among my countrymen, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers.
15 But when it was the good pleasure of Elohim, who separated me from the hollow
[koilia] of my mother, and called me through His grace:
16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the nations; straightway I conferred not with flesh and blood:


No doubt Paul speaks of his "mother" in this sense as Yerushalaim of Above; which he goes on to make plain for all, clearly stating for everyone who reads this epistle that it is an allegory of two covenants. Sarah represents Yerushalaim of Above while Hagar represents Yerushalaim of Below, that is, those who view the covenant and all things according to the eyes and mind of the physical and flesh minded natural man:

Galatians 4:22-27 KJV
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar
[Hagar].
25 For this Agar
[Hagar] is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, [of below] and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband
[cf. Isaiah 54:1-3 Mishkan-Tabernacle imagery].

The "free woman" is Sarah, the son is Yitzchak the son of promise, and therefore Sarah represents Yerushalaim of Above. The same is true of Rachel, and so on, and so on, until Mariam, who is the final typology of Yerushalaim of Above. Yerushalaim of Above is the primary Covenant, as shown in the allegory of the passage as explained above by Paul himself, and likewise shown by the Mishkan-Tabernacle imagery which is clear in Isaiah 54:1-3 from which Paul quotes. What then does the writer speak of with the following words to Timothy? Does he speak of a natural child birth or a spiritual rebirth? Did Timothy know the sacred scriptures before he was physically born into the world? Of course not! This passage then speaks yet again of spiritual rebirth:

2 Timothy 3:15
15 And that from a babe you have known the sacred scriptures, which are able to make you wise unto salvation, through faithfulness that is in Meshiah Yeshua.


Isaiah speaks of the same herein below and this is, no doubt, where Paul receives his understanding:

Isaiah 49:1-6 Septuagint
1 Hearken to me, O islands; and attend, O nations; after a long time it shall come to pass, says YHWH, from the hollow
[koilia] of my mother He has called my name: [Elohey Yisrael, Isaiah 45:3]
2 And He has made my mouth as a sharp sword, and He has hid me under the shadow of His hand; He has made me as a choice shaft, and He has hid me in His quiver.
3 And He said unto me, You are My servant, O Yisrael, and in you I will be glorified.
4 Then I said, I have labored in vain, I have given my strength for vanity, and for nothing; therefore my judgement is with YHWH, and my labor is before my Elohim.
5 And now, thus says YHWH, who formed me from the hollow
[koilia] to be His own servant, to gather Yaakob and Yisrael unto Him, and I shall be gathered and glorified before YHWH, and my Elohim shall be my strength:
6 Yea, He said unto me, Is it a great thing for you to be called My servant, to establish the tribes of Yaakob, and to recover the dispersion of Yisrael? Behold, I have given you for the covenant of the peoples, for a light of the nations, that you should be for salvation to the end of the earth!


This is Meshiah speaking, who is born not of a literal virgin or maiden according to the flesh, but rather born out of the koilia, hollow, or belly, the womb of Yerushalaim Above, and that is because Messiah is formed in us when we consume the seed of the Word, (spiritual eating with the ears and eyes; hearing and reading). And his name is Elohey Yisrael, as per Isaiah 45:3 explained previously in this thread, and in him the All Yisrael and Olive Tree of YHWH shall be gathered, that the Father may be glorified in His Yisrael. Therefore Meshiah must be formed in you, as Paul himself says, O Yisrael, for both he that sanctifies and they that are sanctified are all one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, (Hebrews 2:11), that is, they are all to become the suffering servant, Yisrael, (he must increase, but I must die off).
 

daqq

Well-known member
My joy is over-abounding :)

You know the 'Annunciation' is part of the infancy narratives, and the big VB (virgin birth) theme which further supports the 'divinity' of Christ belief, leaving aside the big debate on a particular word translated as 'young maiden' or 'virgin' ;)
We might also fancy the non-canonical infancy gospels that have some peculiar tidbits. I would directly inquire however how you appropriate or describe any divinity to the man Jesus, or is the 'Christ' a divine spirit, angel or eon that came down 'upon' and/or 'into' Jesus so that a differentiation of 'humanity' and 'deity' albeit compounded or synergized (or whatever) is to be recognized and 'subsumed' into the unique personality-complex (begun at 'marriage' of the two) of Jesus.... at any point in time (whether you see this convergence or 'adoption' at his birth or baptism).

I'm getting to the crux of the age-old Unitarian/Trinitarian debate on the constitution of Jesus, however you describe or compound his humanity and divinity (pick your ratio). Do you differentiate between the MAN Jesus and some essence or anointing of divinity that is either inherent in this unique personality (somehow) or was 'anointed' in some fashion upon him (via the 'dove' at his baptism)? Since you provide some questioning upon an actual literal/physical birth of Jesus (thru a virgin or otherwise), this would seem to throw a wrench into the gears, jamming things up a bit :) - I believe some embellishments made their way into the narratives,...by human nature.

Is Jesus 'God'? Is Jesus divine? How are the logos/word and Jesus related? Is there a human Jesus and a divine logos/word or 'Christ-spirit' that had a pre-existence before the man Jesus was born? Didn't the MAN Jesus have a beginning in time? Do you follow where I'm probing here? It may be asking from so many levels, lighting up stars in the matrix,...but some minds would like some guideposts along the path, to keep oil in their lamps, unless they are already burned out :p Now that we have some more worms out of the bowl,...we'll see if any wiggles get a bite ;)

Now with all of this said, Freelight, ( :) ), that is to say most everything in this thread beginning with the OP, I think I have answered this post which I took the liberty of bringing here from the "Jesus is God" thread, (where you had originally addressed it to myself). And with everything addressed so far in this thread as the backdrop; I knew, when I read the following account of the Annunciation, that the author of this passage truly understood the parables, allegories, idioms, and sayings of Yeshua. Apokalupsis Yaakob has been around since before Trinitarianism, which is why it is found in over 130 manuscripts, for it was widely accepted and therefore at one time extant in Europe, the Middle East, and North Africa, (Egypt and Ethiopia). Even Origen mentions a "Book of James", which is probably this infancy narrative, as the oldest surviving manuscript is now part of the Bodmer Library and was found along with about thirty other ancient manuscripts from an ancient Egyptian monastery-library.

Manuscript tradition
Some indication of the popularity of the Infancy Gospel of James may be drawn from the fact that about one hundred and thirty Greek manuscripts containing it have survived. The Gospel of James was translated into Syriac, Ethiopic, Coptic, Georgian, Old Slavonic, Armenian, Arabic, Irish and Latin. Though no early Latin versions are known, it was relegated to the apocrypha in the Gelasian decretal, so it must have been known in the West by the fifth century. As with the canonical gospels, the vast majority of the manuscripts come from the 10th century or later. The earliest known manuscript of the text, a papyrus dating to the third or early 4th century, was found in 1958; it is kept in the Bodmer Library, Geneva (Papyrus Bodmer 5). Of the surviving Greek manuscripts, the fullest text is a 10th-century codex in the Bibliothèque Nationale, Paris (Paris 1454).
http://www.ebooklibrary.org/articles/eng/protoevangelium_of_james

Because Apokalypse Yaakob was so well accepted for so long it was copied many times over, and thus, the reason for so many variations. It even goes by various titles, (most call it either the Protoevangelium of James or the Proto-Gospel of James). However there has been a good body of work done concerning it in the last century. I quote this text Greek below from the book by Bart Erdman, (which I will link below the quote), because of the amount of research that went into it and because of the plentiful footnotes which are included with the translation, (which is given for this section on the page following in the link, [Pg.53]).

The Annunciation

The Proto-Gospel of James 11:2-3
[2] Καὶ ἰδοὺ ἄγγελος Κυρίου ἔστη ἐνώπιον αὐτῆς λέγων· "Μὴ φοβοῦ, Μαρία· εὗρες γὰρ χάριν ἐνώπιον τοῦ πάντων Δεσπότου. Συνλήμψῃ ἐκ Λόγου αὐτοῦ." Ἡ δὲ ἀκούσασα Μαρία διεκρίθη ἐν ἑαυτῇ λέγουσα· "Ἐγὼ συνλήμψομαι ἀπὸ Κυρίου Θεοῦ ζῶντος καὶ γεννήσω ὡς πᾶσα γυνὴ γεννᾷ;"
[3] Καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῇ ὁ ἄγγελος Κυρίου· "
Οὐχ οὕτως, Μαρία. Δύναμις γὰρ Θεοῦ ἐπισκιάσει σοι· διὸ καὶ τὸ γεννώμενον ἐκ σου ἅγιον κληθήσεται υἱὸς Ὑψίστου. Καὶ καλέσεις τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ Ἰησοῦν· αὐτὸς γὰρ σώσει τὸν λαὸν αὐτοῦ ἐκ τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν αὐτῶν." Καὶ εἶπε Μαρία· "Ἰδοὺ ἡ δούλη Κυρίου κατενώπιον αὐτοῦ. Γένοιτό μοι κατὰ τὸ ῥῆμά σου."
https://books.google.com/books?id=C...pocryphal gospels&pg=PA52#v=onepage&q&f=false

The Malak of YHWH tells Mariam that she will conceive or capture seed from, (out of/by way of), the Logos of the Absolute Master, (Despotou/Despotes). She wonders within herself how this could be and responds by asking the Malak accordingly as follows in the rendering below. The response of the Malak of YHWH is always "undertranslated" in most every translation I have seen; for he does not just say, "Not so", (which is what most all of them say), but rather literally, "Not in that way", or "Not in that manner", and this clearly shows that whoever originally wrote this is speaking of a spiritual seed generating a spiritual child and Meshiah being formed in the person by way of the Seed of the Logos-Word of YHWH, just as Yeshua speaks about in many of his parables, allegories, idioms, and sayings.

"Οὐχ οὕτως, Μαρία" ~ "Not in that way, Maryah"

Zaddokim 3:37-42
[37] And having taken the purple she sat upon her seat and began to draw it out, and behold, Malak of YHWH stood before her, saying:
[38] Fear not, Maryah, for you have found favor before the Master of All,
and you shall conceive retaining seed from His Word.
[39] But having heard this Maryah disputed within herself, saying,
Shall I conceive from the Word of YHWH Elohim the Living and bring forth the same as every woman brings forth?
[40] And the Malak of YHWH said to her,
Not in that way Maryah; but the power of Elohim shall overshadow you, wherefore the holy one born of you shall be called a son of the Most High:
[41] And you shall call his name Yeshua; for he shall deliver his people from their sins.
[42] And Maryah said, Behold, the maidservant of YHWH is before Him: let it be unto me according to your Rhema Word.

:)
 
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