This day have I begotten you

[S-word]

Its your thread, and we're trying to keep it nice

Granted, Jesus is said to have seen this vision of 'anointing' but it was revealed to the writer of the passage as well, so an interesting inter-play there, as far as the record/recorder of the event. 'God' who is formless is apparently using the agency of different 'forms' to engage and coordinate his will in creation. Since He cannot be 'seen' with physical eyes in is entirety, being infinite we can only 'see' him inwardly with mental and spiritual eyes or faculty of 'knowing'.


:thumb:

What a load of Cod's wallop. It was through his physical eyes that John, the cousin of Mary, saw the spirit descend on Jesus in bodily form, namely in the form of a dove, and it was through the physical ears of John, that he heard the heavenly voice say, "You are my son, this day I have begotten thee."

And it was to John, who knew Jesus was greater than he, and believed that he was not worthy of baptising him, but did not know at that time, that Jesus was the man chosen by 'The Light Of Man,' (The Supreme personality of Godhead within the eternal Logos) until HE said, "You will see the Spirit come down and stay on a MAN , he is the one who will baptise with the Spirit."

 

[Clete]

Freelight is so nice and friendly with the heretics! Isn't it wonderful! Doesn't it just warm your heart and give you goose-pumps! :vomit:

His being nice is only laying a nice flat paved road leading to an eternal Hell for these heretics/unbelievers. Their journey will be pleasant and friendly and nice. Their destination will not be.

1 Corinthians 2:15 But he who is spiritual judges all things...


John 7:24 "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”


John 20:27 Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.”
28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”​

 

[Zeke]

This coming from a dead letter worshipper 2Cor 3:6 built on historic assumptions Gal 4:24 Matt 11:11, who doesn't even know where the KIngdom of God is located Luke 17:20-21, Acts 17:24, 1Cor 3:16, but sure shines that first adam intellect that denies all things are possible with the God Matt 19:26, of the living Mark 12:27. No man/divine seed ascends into heaven who didn't first descend John 3:13, Luke 15:11-32.

The traditional blind leading the blind who have "never tasted the more excellent way" 1Cor 12:31 13:1-13, who don't even know what spirit they channel Luke 9:54-56.

The death burial and resurrection happens within man not in secular history like you have been sold by Rome.

 

[S-word]

Freelight is so nice and friendly with the heretics! Isn't it wonderful! Doesn't it just warm your heart and give you goose-pumps! :vomit:

His being nice is only laying a nice flat paved road leading to an eternal Hell for these heretics/unbelievers. Their journey will be pleasant and friendly and nice. Their destination will not be.

1 Corinthians 2:15 But he who is spiritual judges all things...


John 7:24 "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”


John 20:27 Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.”
28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”​

Thomas the twin, is one and the same as Jude the half brother to Jesus, Thomas Didymus Jude.
Jesus says to Mary Magdalene in John 20: 17; "Go to my brothers and tell them that I am ascending to him, who is my Father and their Father, my God and their God."

 

[S-word]

This coming from a dead letter worshipper 2Cor 3:6 built on historic assumptions Gal 4:24 Matt 11:11, who doesn't even know where the KIngdom of God is located Luke 17:20-21, Acts 17:24, 1Cor 3:16, but sure shines that first adam intellect that denies all things are possible with the God Matt 19:26, of the living Mark 12:27. No man/divine seed ascends into heaven who didn't first descend John 3:13, Luke 15:11-32.

The traditional blind leading the blind who have "never tasted the more excellent way" 1Cor 12:31 13:1-13, who don't even know what spirit they channel Luke 9:54-56.

The death burial and resurrection happens within man not in secular history like you have been sold by Rome.

Are you saying that you do not believe that Jesus was a historical figure, who was crucified, died, buried, and resurrected?

 

[freelight]

Omnipresent LOVE.......

Omnipresent LOVE.......

Freelight is so nice and friendly with the heretics! Isn't it wonderful! Doesn't it just warm your heart and give you goose-pumps! :vomit:

His being nice is only laying a nice flat paved road leading to an eternal Hell for these heretics/unbelievers. Their journey will be pleasant and friendly and nice. Their destination will not be.

1 Corinthians 2:15 But he who is spiritual judges all things...


John 7:24 "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”


John 20:27 Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.”
28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”​

Lighten up Clete,.....'God' is love

God's LOVE is INFINITE

 

[Clete]

Lighten up Clete,.....'God' is love

God's LOVE is INFINITE

God hates evil people and will send them to an eternal Hell if they do not repent.

Love isn't nice, Freelight.

Love is kind but it is not nice. If you don't know the difference then you don't even know what love is.

How is it loving to just let people do whatever they want even when their actions are harmful to themselves or others?

How is it loving to treat people like they're okay when they stubbornly reject the only God that exist and who died on their behalf?

Psalm 97:10 You who love the Lord, hate evil! He preserves the souls of His saints; He delivers them out of the hand of the wicked.

Psalm 139:21 Do I not hate them, O Lord, who hate You? And do I not loathe those who rise up against You? 22 I hate them with perfect hatred; I count them my enemies.

Hosea 9:15 “All their wickedness is in Gilgal, For there I hated them. Because of the evil of their deeds I will drive them from My house; I will love them no more. All their princes are rebellious.

Zechariah 8:17 Let none of you think evil in your heart against your neighbor; And do not love a false oath. For all these are things that I hate,’ Says the Lord.”

Romans 12:9 Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good.​

Do not be Nicer Than God, Freelight. It is evil.

Clete

 

[Clete]

Thomas the twin, is one and the same as Jude the half brother to Jesus, Thomas Didymus Jude.

Irrelevant

Jesus says to Mary Magdalene in John 20: 17; "Go to my brothers and tell them that I am ascending to him, who is my Father and their Father, my God and their God."

Amen!

So what?

 

[Zeke]

Are you saying that you do not believe that Jesus was a historical figure, who was crucified, died, buried, and resurrected?

He was a pattern of the second birth that happens in man not outside us so I don't buy the secular version you do.

Sent from my A462C using TheologyOnline mobile app

 

[Zeke]

God hates evil people and will send them to an eternal Hell if they do not repent.

Love isn't nice, Freelight.

Love is kind but it is not nice. If you don't know the difference then you don't even know what love is.

How is it loving to just let people do whatever they want even when their actions are harmful to themselves or others?

How is it loving to treat people like they're okay when they stubbornly reject the only God that exist and who died on their behalf?

Psalm 97:10 You who love the Lord, hate evil! He preserves the souls of His saints; He delivers them out of the hand of the wicked.

Psalm 139:21 Do I not hate them, O Lord, who hate You? And do I not loathe those who rise up against You? 22 I hate them with perfect hatred; I count them my enemies.

Hosea 9:15 “All their wickedness is in Gilgal, For there I hated them. Because of the evil of their deeds I will drive them from My house; I will love them no more. All their princes are rebellious.

Zechariah 8:17 Let none of you think evil in your heart against your neighbor; And do not love a false oath. For all these are things that I hate,’ Says the Lord.”

Romans 12:9 Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good.​

Do not be Nicer Than God, Freelight. It is evil.

Clete

Ole clete spouting the letter that kills trained in egocentric Pavlov's dogma, even carries Babylon ID I would bet.

Sent from my A462C using TheologyOnline mobile app

 

[freelight]

Cod's wallop........

Cod's wallop........

What a load of Cod's wallop.

- not so fast. My observation of the inward subjective interpretation of scripture still holds. In a traditional-orthodox purview, a picture of the Trinity is usually presumed at this point where all 3 'aspects' or 'personalities' of 'God' are simultaneously present at the baptism. The dove has always been taken as respresenting the Holy Spirit.

It was through his physical eyes that John, the cousin of Mary, saw the spirit descend on Jesus in bodily form, namely in the form of a dove, and it was through the physical ears of John, that he heard the heavenly voice say, "You are my son, this day I have begotten thee."

Thats wonderful as far as their experience goes,...and whatever it communicates to us is subjectively interpreted. All is translated thru the subjectivity of consciousness, hence its all about how we translate and interpret it all. Such is life.

And it was to John, who knew Jesus was greater than he, and believed that he was not worthy of baptising him, but did not know at that time, that Jesus was the man chosen by 'The Light Of Man,' (The Supreme personality of Godhead within the eternal Logos) until HE said, "You will see the Spirit come down and stay on a MAN , he is the one who will baptise with the Spirit."

Super. But your interetation of this 'Son of Man' coming down upon Jesus is that it is 'Enoch' or some collective form of prophet Sonship-anointing focalized upon the person of 'Enoch' to whom some former special meaning or title was confered, then placed upon the man Jesus for his eartly ministry. Is this an accurate depiction?

 

[freelight]

Adam Kadmon......

Adam Kadmon......

He was a pattern of the second birth that happens in man not outside us so I don't buy the secular version you do.

Sent from my A462C using TheologyOnline mobile app

Indeed, Jesus is the prototype, archetype of the Son of Man/Son of God image that depicts man's own transformational process back into the original Adam-Kadmon

We are created in the image and likeness of YHWH-Elohim, and further renewed, transformed and resurrected as a 'new creation'.

 

[freelight]

More than niceness.........

More than niceness.........

God hates evil people and will send them to an eternal Hell if they do not repent.

Love isn't nice, Freelight.

Love is kind but it is not nice. If you don't know the difference then you don't even know what love is.

Love recognizes the eternal value and potential in each living soul. It operates out of that motivation looking thru the greater venue of eternity. I would be careful not make 'God' into our own 'image', and this just doesn't include our images of 'niceness', but other characteristics as well

How is it loving to just let people do whatever they want even when their actions are harmful to themselves or others?

How is it loving to treat people like they're okay when they stubbornly reject the only God that exist and who died on their behalf?

In this case, we're discussing an Adoptionist Christology, and whether this view is 'harmful' to anyone is up for debate, but I think some are assuming more 'harm' than actually exists in the context concerned. What is most important is to behold the revelation of 'God' (in reality) in the person and ministry of Jesus, - the challenge is in not allowing 'theology' or 'doctrinal interpretations' get in the way of that. (hint, hint). - there are different views and theories of 'atonement' relative to Jesus death on the cross, let alone whether he is 'God Almighty' or not.

Psalm 97:10 You who love the Lord, hate evil! He preserves the souls of His saints; He delivers them out of the hand of the wicked.

Psalm 139:21 Do I not hate them, O Lord, who hate You? And do I not loathe those who rise up against You? 22 I hate them with perfect hatred; I count them my enemies.

Hosea 9:15 “All their wickedness is in Gilgal, For there I hated them. Because of the evil of their deeds I will drive them from My house; I will love them no more. All their princes are rebellious.

Zechariah 8:17 Let none of you think evil in your heart against your neighbor; And do not love a false oath. For all these are things that I hate,’ Says the Lord.”

Romans 12:9 Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good.​

Of course if our souls are filled with divine goodness and the Spirit of God, we will abhor what is evil. This goes without saying. But some can take a distorted emphasis on this (taking 'truth-smacking' overboard, etc.), so we would be wise to still 'love others' (this includes sinners, enemies, the least of people, etc.) as Jesus taught. This does NOT mean condoning evil behavior. Dont forget the Sermon on the mount and Jesus other teachings. I love to cherry-pick too, but just saying.

Do not be Nicer Than God, Freelight. It is evil.

I dont think it would surprise you that I do not buy Bob Enyart's "version" of Christianity. Its one of the reasons I dont affiliate on this board under the denomination 'Christian'.

 

[keypurr]

Of course, He can and He did! Then He rose from the dead on the third day.

That's the gospel. Deny it at the cost of your eternal soul.

That was Jesus, not God.

Jesus the man died. God, YHWH, is eternal and can not die. He sent his Son to take the form of man to bring us light.

Clete you need to get out of the church box to see truth.

Sent from my SM-T330NU using TheologyOnline mobile app

 

[Clete]

I dont think it would surprise you that I do not buy Bob Enyart's "version" of Christianity. Its one of the reasons I dont affiliate on this board under the denomination 'Christian'.

It isn't "Bob Enyart's" as though he invented it. The plain reading of the bible couldn't be clearer.

I don't understand why I keep getting tricked into thinking that discussions with you will be productive.

 

[Clete]

That was Jesus, not God.

Jesus the man died. God, YHWH, is eternal and can not die. He sent his Son to take the form of man to bring us light.

Clete you need to get out of the church box to see truth.

Sent from my SM-T330NU using TheologyOnline mobile app

Wash rinse repeat

Wash rinse repeat

Repeat

Repeat

Repeat


This is why I never ever debate with these fools, folks. They do not know how to have a two way discussion. All they do is ignore every point you make and then repeat their position as though it refutes something I've said.

They are all - UNIVERSALLY - stupid. I've never met a single exception. It seems that being stupid is a prerequisit to rejecting the diety of Christ, in opposition to the direct and unambiguous teaching of the bible. Why they even want to call themselves 'Christian' is a mystery.


Clete

 

[freelight]

Dirty laundry........

Dirty laundry........

Wash rinse repeat

Wash rinse repeat

Repeat

Repeat

Repeat


This is why I never ever debate with these fools, folks. They do not know how to have a two way discussion. All they do is ignore every point you make and then repeat their position as though it refutes something I've said.

They are all - UNIVERSALLY - stupid. I've never met a single exception. It seems that being stupid is a prerequisit to rejecting the diety of Christ, in opposition to the direct and unambiguous teaching of the bible. Why they even want to call themselves 'Christian' is a mystery.


Clete

'Christian' is just word, term, label. It is meaningless beyond how one defines it, but definitions vary.

Still....pure Deity by definition is unborn, undying, incorruptible, infinite, immortal.

Only by associating or identifying Deity with mortality or coming into a mortal body as in the mystery of the Incarnation, can you assume somehow that 'God' somehow died....and still it's a 'mystery' and an 'assumption'. The question is whether it's a necessary one

 

[Clete]

'Christian' is just word, term, label. It is meaningless beyond how one defines it, but definitions vary.

This is true of every word, in every language, everywhere.

Still....pure Deity by definition is unborn, undying, incorruptible, infinite, immortal.

The only God that actually exists, was born a man, lived a sinless life and died in payment for your sin debt and rose from the dead three days later. That's the gospel! Reject it at the cost of having to pay your sin debt yourself.

Only by associating or identifying Deity with mortality or coming into a mortal body as in the mystery of the Incarnation, can you assume somehow that 'God' somehow died....and still it's a 'mystery' and an 'assumption'. The question is whether it's a necessary one

God died the same death that we all have or will experience. His Spirit was separated from His physical body (physical death) and He was forsaken by (i.e. separated from) God the Father. He then went to "Paradise", the place of the righteous dead, also known as "Abraham's Bosom". Jesus, the Creator of all things, died in every sense of the word that applies to people.

Those are the biblical facts and it is the Bible that defines Diety for the Christian as well as Christianity itself, not a bunch of unbleivers who want to make up their religion as they go and not you either.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[daqq]

We also find Melki, (my King), in Psalm 2:6 and in the Lukan genealogy:

Psalm 2:6-7
6 Yet have I set Melki, (My King), upon My holy mountain of Zion.
7 I will declare the decree: YHWH has said unto me, You are My Son; this day have I begotten you.

Originally Posted by daqq

The decree of Psalm 2:7 still appears in Codex Bezae:

http://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/view/MS-NN-00002-00041/371

LUKE 3:22-23 BEZAE (D)
—————— ΚΑΙ ΚΑΤΑΒΗΝΑΙ ΤΟ ΠΝΕΥΜΑ
ΤΟ ΑΓΙΟΝ ϹΩΜΑΤΙΚΩ ΕΙΔΕΙ ΩϹ ΠΕΡΙϹΤΕΡΑΝ
ΕΙϹ ΑΥΤΟΝ ΚΑΙ ΦΩΝΗΝ ΕΚ ΤΟΥ ΟΥΡΑΝΟΥ
ΓΕΝΕϹΘΑΙ ΥΙΟϹ ΜΟΥ ΕΙ ϹΥ ΕΓΩ ϹΗΜΕΡΟΝ
ΓΕΓΕΝΝΗΚΑ ϹΕ:ΗΝ ΔΕ Ι̅Η̅Ϲ ΩϹ ΕΤΩΝ ·Λ·
ΑΡΧΟΜΕΝΟϹ ΩϹ ΕΝΟΜΕΙΖΕ ΤΟ ΕΙΝΑΙ
ΥΙΟϹ —————— ΙΩϹΗΦ

Luke 3:22-23 Bezae (D)
And the Spirit the Holy One descended in corporeal-bodily form as a dove to-into him; and a voice came out of the heavens, "You are My Son, This day I have begotten you", moreover Ι̅H was about 30 years of age, as customary for one commencing to be a son — Yoseph (of Heli . . .)

And in the Lukan geneaology the names up to Zerubbabel, (or perhaps even after and all the way through), may be read according to the meanings of the names rather than simply transliterating the names as names, in other words, the names may not be only a genealogy but also a statement which may only be seen and understood by reading the meanings of each of the names. For instance Matthew means, "gift of Yaho", Melki means, "my King", and so on and so on. Thus, using the more commonly accepted Greek texts which are used for most modern English translations, as concerning the remainder of the names up to Zerubbabel, the genealogy may actually be understood something like as follows, and it is fluid, (I am not saying this is the only way to read it).

Luke 3:23c-27 W/H
23c ιωσηφ του ηλι
24 του μαθθατ του λευι του μελχι του ιανναι του ιωσηφ
25 του ματταθιου του αμως του ναουμ του εσλι του ναγγαι
26 του μααθ του ματταθιου του σεμειν του ιωσηχ του ιωδα
27 του ιωαναν του ρησα του ζοροβαβελ του σαλαθιηλ του νηρι

Luke 3:22-38
And the Spirit the Holy One descended in corporeal-bodily form as a dove to-into him; and a voice came out of the heavens, "You are My Son, This day I have begotten you", moreover Ι̅H was about 30 years of age, as customary for one commencing to be a son — Ιωσηφ of Ηλι my El, a gift of Yaho, of Levi of Melki my King, the flourishing one of Yoseph: a present of Yaho, the burden of comfort, preserved of Yaho, illuminating the small, a gift of Yaho: hear my report of Yoseph of Yhudah, of the grace of Elohim, of the head of Zerubbabel of Shealtiel of Neri of Melki of Addi of Cosam of Elmadam of Er of Yhoshua of Eliezer of Yhorim of Matthat of Levi of Shimeon of Yhudah of Yoseph of Yonam of Eliakim of Melea of Menna of Mattatha of Nathan of David of Yishay of Obed of Boaz of Salmon of Nahshon of Amminadab of Ram of Hezron of Pherez of Yhudah of Yaakob of Yitzchak of Abraham of Terah of Nahor of Serug of Reu of Peleg of Eber of Shelah of Cainan of Arphaxad of Shem of Noah of Lamech of Methuselah of Enoch of Yared of Mahalalel of Kenan of Enosh of Seth of Adam of Elohim.

My reading and understanding of the Bezae passage has evolved:

LUKE 3:22-23 BEZAE (D)
—————— ΚΑΙ ΚΑΤΑΒΗΝΑΙ ΤΟ ΠΝΕΥΜΑ
ΤΟ ΑΓΙΟΝ ϹΩΜΑΤΙΚΩ ΕΙΔΕΙ ΩϹ ΠΕΡΙϹΤΕΡΑΝ
ΕΙϹ ΑΥΤΟΝ ΚΑΙ ΦΩΝΗΝ ΕΚ ΤΟΥ ΟΥΡΑΝΟΥ
ΓΕΝΕϹΘΑΙ ΥΙΟϹ ΜΟΥ ΕΙ ϹΥ ΕΓΩ ϹΗΜΕΡΟΝ
ΓΕΓΕΝΝΗΚΑ ϹΕ:ΗΝ ΔΕ Ι̅Η̅Ϲ ΩϹ ΕΤΩΝ ·Λ·
ΑΡΧΟΜΕΝΟϹ ΩϹ ΕΝΟΜΕΙΖΕ ΤΟ ΕΙΝΑΙ
ΥΙΟϹ —————— ΙΩϹΗΦ
http://cudl.lib.cam.ac.uk/view/MS-NN-00002-00041/371

The difference being found between ανοιχθηναι -vs- ανεωχθηναι / ανεωχθηνε, (Sinaiticus), and this difference in Bezae creates an ellipsis which runs through the text, ("praying for"). There is also an ellipsis in the preceding text concerning Herod and all "the evil which he had done", (the portion in scare-quotes being the ellipsis). The Bezae text does not actually appear to even be affirming that anything had happened, showing collusion, and by that I mean that the information is actually to be found in another Gospel account, which is precisely what the same author implies in Acts 6:2-4, (imo collusion is not a bad thing because it is revealed in many other places: the twelve are as one, [Matthew in the place of Judas who fell]).

Ellipsis: "the evil which he had done" {in brackets}

Luke 3:19-20 Codex Bezae
ο δε ηρωδης ο τετραρχης ελεγχομενος ϋπ αυτου περι ηρωδειαδος της γυναικος του αδελφου αυτου και περι παντων ων εποιησεν πονηρων ο ηρωδης προσεθηκεν και τουτο επι πασιν εν-εκλισε τον ϊωανην εν φυλακη

Luke 3:19-20 Bezae
But Herod the tetrarch, having been admonished by him concerning Herodias the wife of his brother, and concerning all the evil which Herod had done: he added also unto this over all, {the evil which he had done} in that he locked up Yohanan in prison.

Ellipsis: "praying for" {in brackets}

Luke 3:21-22 Codex Bezae
εγενετο δε εν τω βαπτισθηναι απαντα τον λαον και Ι̅Η βαπτισθεντος και και προσευχομενου ανοιχθηναι τον ουρανον και καταβηναι το πνευμα το αγιον σωματικω ειδει ως περιστεραν εις αυτον και φωνην εκ του ουρανου γενεσθαι ϋιος μου ει συ εγω σημερον γεγεννηκα σε:

Luke 3:21-22 Bezae
Moreover it was that with every one of the people to be immersed, even Ι̅Η was immersing also, and praying for the heavens to be opened, and {praying for} the body-like resemblance of the Spirit of the Holy One to descend as a dove to him, and {praying for} a voice to come to be [to be generated] out of the heavens, "You are My son, this day I have begotten you."