These are NOT the same gospel

[Idolater]

The Remnant = Green

So, didn't you just show that there is no 'Gospel' that involves works and lawkeeping? Viz., there is a Remnant "no longer of works."

 

[Hoping]

Yippee for you. That's in the future....which is fine since you're still under the law and must endure to the end.

Done and did.
Over.
The remission of my past sins was completed at my water baptism in the name of the Lord for the remission of sins: just as Peter said in Acts 2:38.
And thankfully, God gives all the repentant the ways and means to endure faithfully till the end.
Praise be to God !

Mine are forgiven already. I don't have to wait until the Lord returns.

All you wait for is the judgement of the last day...just like the rest of us.

 

[Hoping]

Not always:
Romans 2:17 KJV
Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,

More proof that Paul spoke, and wrote, to both Jews and Gentiles.

 

[Right Divider]

More proof that Paul spoke, and wrote, to both Jews and Gentiles.

Who said otherwise? (Also note that Paul is not speaking directly to Jews in that verse, he's explaining something in general).

Paul is OUR pattern 1 Tim 1:16

You are lost in your false doctrine.

 

[Hoping]

Who said otherwise? (Also note that Paul is not speaking directly to Jews in that verse, he's explaining something in general).

Paul is OUR pattern 1 Tim 1:16

You are lost in your false doctrine.

I thought I was agreeing with you.

 

[glorydaz]

This could be helpful: https://graceambassadors.com/books/romans/the-context-of-romans-9-11

Wow, that lays it out so clearly. Thank you for sharing, RD.

 

[JudgeRightly]

So, didn't you just show that there is no 'Gospel' that involves works and lawkeeping? Viz., there is a Remnant "no longer of works."

See the following:

This could be helpful: https://graceambassadors.com/books/romans/the-context-of-romans-9-11

 

[glorydaz]

... about Israel:

I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying,“ Lord, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life” ?But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace.And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.Just as it is written: “God has given them a spirit of stupor, Eyes that they should not see And ears that they should not hear, To this very day.”And David says: “Let their table become a snare and a trap, A stumbling block and a recompense to them.Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see, And bow down their back always.”I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them.For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches.And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree,do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.”Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins.”Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience,even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy.For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!“For who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has become His counselor?”“Or who has first given to Him And it shall be repaid to him?”For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen. - Romans 11:1-36 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans11:1-36&version=NKJV

Israel, particularly unbelieving Israel = Brown
Body of Christ, particularly his audience = Blue
The World, Gentiles = Grey
The Remnant = Green

I don't think the YOU is speaking to the body of Christ, but to those who believed Christ was the Messiah.

 

[JudgeRightly]

I don't think the YOU is speaking to the body of Christ, but to those who believed Christ was the Messiah.

That's the remnant, which he addresses as a third party to his audience, which is the "you."

 

[glorydaz]

That's the remnant, which he addresses as a third party to his audience, which is the "you."

So you're not saying the remnant is the body of Christ, correct?

The remnant would be these folks. Acts 10:34-36
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all

 

[JudgeRightly]

So you're not saying the remnant is the body of Christ, correct?

Correct.

The remnant would be these folks. Acts 10:34-36
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all

Agreed.

 

[Idolater]

Correct.



Agreed.

But it is a remnant no more of works.

So what Covenant is that?

 

[glorydaz]

Correct.



Agreed.

But the YOU which you have in blue is NOT talking about the body of Christ, correct?
I say this because the body of Christ is not grafted onto to anything.

 

[glorydaz]

But it is a remnant no more of works.

So what Covenant is that?

It is still of works, and they're still considered Israel....not the body of Christ.

Acts 10:34-36 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all

 

[Right Divider]

So you're not saying the remnant is the body of Christ, correct?

The remnant would be these folks. Acts 10:34-36
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all

Remnant means "what remains". So in regard to Israel, the remnant are the remaining believers of Israel. They are spoken about many times in the OT.

 

[Idolater]

Tambora is.

I'm not seeing the notion of 'losing' in anything she's saying; she's talking about 'walking away', not 'losing' anything. Losing faith maybe (and that by free choice), but not salvation.

Musterion presented an argument earlier that I believe resolves this entirely.

Which was his? @glorydaz offered up that since a believer's faith is Christ's own faith, that it is impossible for a believer to 'really' stop believing; I believe this is the gist of it.

I don't recall Musterion's answer.

@Idolater @Tambora I believe God is gracious enough to save those who, in ignorance, turn away from Him after coming to Him

This part rings Catholic in my ears. Language like this litters the Catechism of the Catholic Church, fwiw.

, because He says they are "sealed with the Holy Spirit."

Catholicism believes this refers to the sacrament of confirmation, fwiw.

And I know I know. It's 'worth' skubalon to you I'm sure; I'm just letting your know.

 

[JudgeRightly]

But the YOU which you have in blue is NOT talking about the body of Christ, correct?
I say this because the body of Christ is not grafted onto to anything.

Let me get back to you on this one, as I'm not entirely sure.

 

[glorydaz]

I'm not seeing the notion of 'losing' in anything she's saying; she's talking about 'walking away', not 'losing' anything. Losing faith maybe (and that by free choice), but not salvation.

Tam was specifically talking about losing salvation.

 

[glorydaz]

Perhaps one day you'll realize where Peter realized he was wrong in some areas.

So do you think Peter was a member of the body of Christ.....from everything he wrote in Scripture?

Or do you see where God has another place for Peter?

 

[Right Divider]

Tam was specifically talking about losing salvation.

Yes, she doesn't seem to believe this:

Col 3:1-4 (AKJV/PCE)
(3:1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. (3:2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. (3:3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. (3:4) When Christ, [who is] our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.