glorydaz
Well-known member
Which would be Peter and his followers, wouldn't it?
Which would include Cornelius and those like him, wouldn't it?
Cornelius would be among those who are grafted on.
These are NOT the same gospel
- Thread starter Right Divider
- Start date
Which would include Cornelius and those like him, wouldn't it?
Cornelius would be among those who are grafted on.
Right Divider
Body part
Yes.
I don't think that they are technically the remnant of Israel, since they are not Israel.
Sounds reasonable.
Derf
Well-known member
Isn't it possible for him to be a member of the BOC and also have another place for him?
Everything Peter wrote in scripture was written to members of the BOC, and he called himself an "elder" as their leaders were elders. He called them Christians. He said Paul had written to them (the people Peter was writing to). He said all of Paul's letters applied to them. It's surprising to me that anyone would try to use Peter's writings to say he was in some other camp than Paul was. They just started out targeting different people for the same good news.
1 Peter 1:1 (KJV) Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
(Compare with Paul's greeting to the CHURCHES of Galatia: Galatians 1:2 (KJV) And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia)
2 Peter 1:1 (KJV) Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
2 Peter 3:1 (KJV) This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in [both] which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2 Peter 3:15 (KJV) And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2 Peter 3:16 (KJV) As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
1 Peter 4:16 (KJV) Yet if [any man suffer] as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
1 Peter 5:1 (KJV) The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
glorydaz
Well-known member
Well, they came to Christ through Israel...the preaching of the Kingdom that Jesus was the Son of God and the Messiah.
Right Divider
Body part
That certainly makes them friends of the remnant.
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Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
Don't you think that the Body of Christ believes that Jesus is the Son of God and the Messiah?
Derf
Well-known member
Especially since "Christ" means the same thing as "Messiah".
glorydaz
Well-known member
Since the body of Christ is in heavenly places, and the twelve apostles will be judging in the Kingdom on earth, I don't see how he could be in both.
Matthew 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Peter wasn't writing to the body of Christ.
The strangers scattered is talking about Jews. We see that here where Jews came from all over to celebrate the Pentecost. Then they were scattered when the persecution began with Stephen's stoning.
Acts 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. 6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. 7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? 8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? 9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, 10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
The church in Jerusalem had elders, just as Israel always had. Still, this is not the body of Christ.
Acts 15:4
And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Of course they do, but that is not all they believe. (The Messiah part is not required for the body of Christ).
They believe they are justified by the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
glorydaz
Well-known member
More so. Paul is talking to Cornelius and others who were "grafted in" when he says this.
He is not speaking to the body of Christ here, but to those gentiles that believed the gospel of the kingdom. Thanks to your link, RD, it all makes sense to me now. Paul "magnifies" his office by speaking to these gentiles saved under the kingdom gospel. They are partakers of the root and fatness of the olive tree. But they are not to boast because they must endure or they too shall be cut off. It's those gentiles that might be cut off....not the body of Christ as Tam and others contend.
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Correct.
Not about having doubts at times, and not about not fully understanding how it all works; but willfully and purposely abandoning Him to embrace another.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Which is losing salvation. Just admit it.
Christ is not a prison camp.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Just let Him buy you, and will understand why that statement is so silly.
Derf
Well-known member
It's really sad you've drunk of the kool aid so deeply that you're unwilling to actually read what Peter wrote. He said he wrote to the same people Paul wrote to, telling them to listen to what Paul said to them. We know what Paul wrote to them, including his rebuke of Peter, that they should not be getting circumcised or the gospel he preached to them will be in vain.
Galatians 1:6-8 (KJV) 6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Peter, writing to the same people, said "heed what Paul told you", which includes the curses on anyone preaching Peter's gospel, if it is different from Paul's. Peter would never call his own gospel "accursed", therefore his must be the same as Paul's.
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Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
Exactly the point. Body of Christ = Body of Messiah!
Right.
Paul made it perfectly clear that there has never been a law that could give life or make one righteous because if there had ever been a law that could do that then Christ died in vain.
Works of the law were never included for that.
Galatians 3:21 ESV
Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law.
Galatians 2:21 KJV
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Stop with your childish accusations about "kool aid".
Paul's curses were upon those who preached any other gospel to his saved by grace believers.
That really shouldn't be that hard to understand. Paul's believers were to add NOTHING to the work on the cross.
Guess you didn't notice that Peter said Paul said things that were hard to understand. That's because it was not the same gospel. Duh!
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Derf
Well-known member
Maybe it's because you don't understand.