These are NOT the same gospel

[Tambora]

So they can have eternal life that is not really eternal?
Again, your hypotheticals don't prove a thing.

Romans 11:20-22 KJV
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

John 5:24 (AKJV/PCE)
(5:24) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Right, that believeth on HIM.

 

[Right Divider]

Romans 11:20-22 KJV
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

That passage is NOT talking about the body of Christ.
No use explaining to you why that is, you don't listen anyway.

 

[glorydaz]

So we see those who are boasting in their own ability to stay saved or to be saved.

Eph. 2:5-9
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

The enemy is using boasters to denigrate the work of the cross. How shall He find faith on the earth when He returns when so many trust in themselves (by being baptized, by repenting, by enduring or any other thing.....attempting to steal glory from the Lord.

Luke 18:
8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

 

[glorydaz]

That passage is NOT talking about the body of Christ.
No use explaining to you why that is, you don't listen anyway.

Those who can't rightly divide scripture remain blind.....the rapture will pass them by.

 

[musterion]

Thank you, brother. That's what I tried to tell her....that they'd already heard Paul's gospel, but she refused to hear.

Time to kick off the dust?

 

[musterion]

Part of the confusion here could be the people trying to blend in the general epistles with Paul's letters. Content-wise, they don't mix as Paul explains in Galatians 2.

Plus, just look at who they are addressed to.

Big part of their problem is that the general epistles have a yet-future application that will kick in when God is once again dealing with redeemed Jews in the Tribulation. The letters make perfect sense that way...

...unless you believe He is forever done with Jews because they (Gentile believers) replaced them. They do NOT like to be told He will once again deal exclusively with the literal nation of Israel.

That's why disp'ism has always been hated: it takes Israel's goodies out of ignorant Gentile hands.

That also explains why some of them get so dad burn offended at the thought of not going through the Tribulation! Yeah it's insane, but when you know why they get mad...when you say that it's the time of Jacob's trouble and they ain't Jacob after they've hyped themselves up in their own inflated minds that they'll be one of the few strong enough to make it through ... their cuckoo anger makes sense.

 

[Tambora]

So we see those who are boasting in their own ability to stay saved or to be saved.

Not me.
I am choosing to have my believing faith is in the Lord Jesus Christ.
You and your ilk can doubt that all you want to.

 

[glorydaz]

Part of the confusion here could be the people trying to blend in the general epistles with Paul's letters. Content-wise, they don't mix as Paul explains in Galatians 2.

Plus, just look at who they are addressed to.

Big part of their problem is that the general epistles have a yet-future application that will kick in when God is once again dealing with redeemed Jews in the Tribulation. The letters make perfect sense that way...

...unless you believe He is forever done with Jews because they (Gentile believers) replaced them. They do NOT like to be told He will once again deal exclusively with the literal nation of Israel.

That's why disp'ism has always been hated: it takes Israel's goodies out of ignorant Gentile hands.

That also explains why some of them get so dad burn offended at the thought of not going through the Tribulation! Yeah it's insane, but when you know why they get mad...when you say that it's the time of Jacob's trouble and they ain't Jacob after they've hyped themselves up in their own inflated minds that they'll be one of the few strong enough to make it through ... their cuckoo anger makes sense.

They hate to admit they've been deceived all these years.
They absolutely MUST DO something to help Jesus complete His plan of salvation.

They aren't even curious about why that little tiny nation of Israel returned to their homeland after all these years.
Abject DENIAL will keep them from the gift of eternal life. It's so sad.

 

[Derf]

I didn't say there was more than one name by which one can receive eternal life.

Acts 4:12
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

I said paths.

You are such a word master, why do you always assume facts not in evidence?

Can you explain what you mean by "paths"?

 

[glorydaz]

Not me.
I am choosing to have my believing faith is in the Lord Jesus Christ.
You and your ilk can doubt that all you want to.

Haha....just like the pharisee. 'I'll be saved because I AM CHOOSING to endure, but others might choose to worship Satan.

'Too bad others aren't as wonderful as I am. I can keep myself saved.'

Luke 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. 13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

 

[Tambora]

Haha....just like the pharisee. 'I'll be saved because I AM CHOOSING to endure, but others might choose to worship Satan.

'Too bad others aren't as wonderful as I am. I can keep myself saved.'

Luke 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. 13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

So now you're a Calvinist that does not think you had a choice to choose who you place your believing faith in.
Oh well.

 

[glorydaz]

Can you explain what you mean by "paths"?

What were the Jews to believe? That Jesus is the Son of God....their Messiah.
John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
When would their sins be blotted out? When Jesus returns in His glory. They must endure to the end.
Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

Being saved by grace through faith in the dbr of Jesus Christ is a GIFT OF GOD to the gentiles.
Yes, Paul's gospel was for anyone who didn't claim they had to endure, or be baptized, or be circumcised.
Nothing can be added to the Gospel of Grace.

Not the same path. Not the same gospel.

 

[glorydaz]

So now you're a Calvinist that does not think you had a choice to choose who you place your believing faith in.
Oh well.

Don't twist what I say because you're so anxious to prove salvation is not a free gift.

What you fail to comprehend is once we have placed our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, we are HIS.
He begins His work in us, and HE is able to KEEP us.....bought and paid for, we are.

You, I have no clue who you are.

 

[musterion]

Someone can't be sealed unto the day of redemption and have that seal broken, unless God is a liar. Because that's what it would take for these people to be right--His seal would have to be broken, and Him lie about it.

If you couple that with Hebrews 6, which they'd have to, once it's broken it can never be restored.

Once (re)lost, always lost.

But it's always somebody else at risk of losing salvation, never them. The ones barking the loudest are always among the elite tough ones who'll make the final cut.

 

[glorydaz]

Someone can't be sealed unto the day of redemption and have that seal broken, unless God is a liar. Because that's what it would take for these people to be right--His seal would have to be broken, and Him lie about it.

If you couple that with Hebrews 6, which they'd have to, once it's broken it can never be restored.

Once (re)lost, always lost.

But it's always somebody else at risk of losing salvation, never them. The ones barking the loudest are always among the elite tough ones who'll make the final cut.

And just think of the doubt they cause others to have. I hear all the time people who say they know they can't stop sinning. When we preach the gospel we don't tell people they have to be perfect, or they will have to rely on their own strength....that's the whole point of salvation. It is not of ourselves. Tam and others are insisting it's their own doing.

This is why Paul says that anyone who preached any other gossip is accursed.
Adding anything to the Gospel of Grace absolutely must be accursed.

We're seeing a first hand example of it here on this forum.

 

[musterion]

Yep.

 

[Derf]

Being saved by grace through faith in the dbr of Jesus Christ is a GIFT OF GOD to the gentiles.

We're not saved by faith in His DBR, are we? Isn't our faith in him, and what he's told us? Just knowing about the DBR won't do it--the demons believe that it happened. The faith isn't in the power of the DBR, as the activity has no actual power. But the power to resurrect someone is something we can believe in. Who holds that power? And why would he use that power on our behalf?

And how are we different than anyone else as far as his use of that power? The difference is in our belief in Jesus Christ--that he was God's son, sent to be the salvation of the world. Yes, that was through the DBR, but the faith in God doesn't require full knowledge or understanding of it to be saved by him through it.

Thus, Jews of Jesus's day were still to be saved to eternal life through the DBR even if they dies before he revealed it to them.

That's why this discussion matters so much to us, because we see it as an attempt to offer a different way ("path") to salvation, when only one path is viable. Perhaps there are different trappings, but the underlying path is the same one promised to Adam and Eve: the seed of the woman (Jesus) will crush the head of the seed of the serpent (death).

 

[Idolater]

And just think of the doubt they cause others to have. I hear all the time people who say they know they can't stop sinning. When we preach the gospel we don't tell people they have to be perfect, or they will have to rely on their own strength....that's the whole point of salvation. It is not of ourselves. Tam and others are insisting it's their own doing.

The only thing that's being discussed is whether someone can choose to not believe the Gospel, after previously choosing to believe it.

 

[glorydaz]

The only thing that's being discussed is whether someone can choose to not believe the Gospel, after previously choosing to believe it.

That's the only thing that's being discussed? I don't think so.

I think we're discussing why Paul said whoever preached another gospel than what he preached, that person should be accursed. The claim that a person can lose their salvation (for any reason) is blasphemous where Paul's gospel is concerned. The gospel is the POWER OF GOD unto salvation. That is the Gospel of Grace.....not the gospel of the Kingdom.

For those folks who don't know what that means, they'd better figure this out. There is only ONE gospel that saves TODAY.

 

[glorydaz]

We're not saved by faith in His DBR, are we? Isn't our faith in him, and what he's told us?

Do you mean what He told us when He walked this earth? If that's what you mean, then NO.
Or do you mean what the Risen and Ascended Lord revealed to Paul, then YES.

And that right there is the difference. In fact, Paul told us (by divine inspiration) that we are not to know Jesus after the flesh.

2 Cor. 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

You can chew on that before we move forward. If you don't know our Lord Spiritually, you don't know Him at all.