ECT There is only one Gospel

[Grosnick Marowbe]

He can't.

It would be utterly impossible.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Buzz off Egyptian.

I gave my back to those who strike, and my cheeks to those who pull out the beard; I hid not my face from disgrace and spitting. (Isaiah 50:6)

Pharaoh sent for Joseph at once, and he was quickly brought from the prison. After he shaved and changed his clothes, he went in and stood before Pharaoh. (Genesis 41:14)

You are not Joseph, Whiskers.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

There's only one true Gospel today and that's the Grace Gospel. (Paul's Gospel.) Anything else, is "Another gospel." (small g)

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Buzz )

That's the noise we want to hear while your "Blackbeard the Pirate" beard is being shaved off your face.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Leave the 60s behind you, my Hippie friend.

 

[Nang]

Yore problem is in thinking Nang is saying God is arbitrary.

That's all on you, bub.

Indeed. Acting arbitrarily, in human terms, is acting without reason, but purely according to whim or self-serving graft of various kinds.

God elected souls in Christ arbitrarily, apart from any acknowledgement of human merit, according to His own moral standards, lawful reasonings, grace, and to glorify the name of the Son.

So "arbitrary" in a higher and sovereign sense, but not according to corrupted human motives.

 

[Nang]

Yes, quite so. But the debate isn't for her benefit, although she will derive some benefit from it indirectly, even if that benefit is undetectable by any of us.

Heh . . I was brainwashed for 7 years in a dispie group, and rescued by the power, truth, and Spirit of God who led me into all truth. John 16:13

 

[Nang]

I really cannot tell if you're being stupid or stubborn or stubbornly stupid.

You are simply opining that God cannot be a Just God without allowing mankind to determine their own fate.

I am not denying that God is just. I'm saying that the fact that God is just, proves your doctrine false.

There are two truth claims that Calvinists make that cannot both be true...

1. God is just.
2. God predestined people to Hell before He ever created them and for no reason at all other than because He wanted to.

One of those claims is false because they are mutually exclusive. Arbitrary and Just are not synonyms they are opposites.

You have made the claim that you are able to rationally defend your beliefs. So do it. Show me the argument that presents those two ideas as logically compatible.

You won't be able to do it without redefining the word "just".

And it is the word "just" that you'll redefine, not "predestine". It is always the qualitative attributes of God that get the axe with Calvinists.


Of course! But that's the biggest "if" that has ever come out of your mouth! In fact, it's not "even if" as you put it, it's "ONLY if"!

The whole point is that your doctrine specifically states that a person ending up in Heaven or Hell has nothing to do with what they have done. Volition doesn't come into it at all with the Calvinist.


I make no such claim. I really honestly cannot tell if this is stupidity on your part or not.

What I am claiming is not that man is actually innocent but that they would not be guilty IF they cannot do otherwise as the Calvinist teaches. I'm not saying that the real God is unjust, I'm saying that the pretend god of Calvinism is unjust (or would be if he existed). The god that predestines people to an eternal Hell before they ever did anything and supposedly as a rhetorical consequence of actions that your god predestined that they would do in a manner which renders doing otherwise impossible.


The only exception is the Man, Jesus Christ.


Your doctrine teaches that Adam could not have done otherwise. His action was therefore not volitional, by definition (if you've actually read Clark, you'll recognize that an argument by definition is a valid form of argument). If the action was not volition then it wasn't moral in nature and cannot rightly be called sin.


You haven't even demonstrated an ability to understand what is being asked!

No way do I believe that you are this stupid. You're dodging the question intentionally because you know I've cornered you - again.

Go ahead and make another attempt at it, Nang; you and your Clarkian Calvinism!

Show me any rational argument that demonstrates how an arbitrary god can be just.

You are the one proving to be stubborn and stupid, for you are not responding rationally to the answers given you.

The attribute of a Just God is not contingent upon His creatures in any way. His Justice does not depend upon their volitional acts; nor does His election of particular souls for redemption in Christ Jesus, nullify His righteousness or moral standards (Law).

To grasp this, all must factor in that Adam was created good, but immediately subjected to the commands (Law) of God. Adam's rebellion against those commands (Law) explains all that has occurred since.

Open Theology ignores God's Law and thus does not see how all evolved therefrom.

God's Justice is His Being. The Law reflects His righteousness. He cannot and will not act in opposition to what He IS.

And man cannot either, without paying the consequences.

 

[heir]

Heh . . I was brainwashed for 7 years in a dispie group, and rescued by the power, truth, and Spirit of God who led me into all truth. John 16:13

How can you say that when you do not even 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV? You can neither define it or tell anyone how. What is it that they were teaching you that was brainwashing? What was your final authority to hold up to their teaching? IOW, how do you know what they were teaching you was not the truth?

 

[heir]

1. You believe that salvation is and should be presented as universal.

Universal salvation is a lie as some will perish because they receive not the love of the truth that they can be saved (2 Thessalonians 2:10 KJV), but world reconciliation is true whether you believe it or not!

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

...

1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Why do you rightfully see that as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned (Romans 5:12 KJV), but deny the due time message that the man Christ Jesus gave himself a ransom for all as God's will is that all men be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth?

 

[musterion]

Some of the most strident opponents of dispensationalism on TOL have a few odd things in common. (a) They claim they were once hardcore dispies, even though (b) they clearly do not understand the basics of it, particularly of MAD, and so (c) they invariably misrepresent it while (d) claiming WE are the ones who are misrepresenting it.

Very strange phenomenon.

 

[Nang]

How can you say that when you do not even 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV?

The original Greek root word "orthos" translated as "divide" or "expound" means to teach with much plainness compared to the dawn and the clearest of lights.

It does not carry the connotation of "dividing" by chopping up and discarding as your MAD doctrines and praxis advocate and demonstrate.

You can neither define it or tell anyone how.

I just did . . .

What is it that they were teaching you that was brainwashing?

Dispensationalism.

What was your final authority to hold up to their teaching? IOW, how do you know what they were teaching you was not the truth?

The Holy Spirit leading us into Christ-centered Truth.

Dispies are not Christ-centered. They are sensational centered, rapture centered, anti-Jew centered, and/or Paul centered.

Their view is modern, humanistic, recent, and not historal orthodoxy at all. Covenant Theology, held by saints throughout history, reveals all this in the most obvious manner and terms.

 

[Nang]

Some of the most strident opponents of dispensationalism on TOL have a few odd things in common. (a) They claim they were once hardcore dispies, even though (b) they clearly do not understand the basics of it, particularly of MAD, and so (c) they invariably misrepresent it while (d) claiming WE are the ones who are misrepresenting it.

Very strange phenomenon.

:baby:

How has Dispensationalism and MAD been "misrepresented," worse than the Reformed Faith and the Gospel of Jesus Christ on these sites?

Truth will always cast a light upon the darkness of error, and all the sons of God will be granted eyes to see . . .

 

[Crucible]

the lost sheep of the House of Israel

Do yourself a favor, GM, and read that sentence again. Carefully now.

This is where you gospel dividers really mess up at.

 

[heir]

The original Greek root word "orthos" translated as "divide" or "expound" means to teach with much plainness compared to the dawn and the clearest of lights.

Studying to shew thyself approved unto God as a workman that needeth not to be ashamed requires rightly dividing the word of truth. You don't.

It does not carry the connotation of "dividing" by chopping up and discarding as your MAD doctrines and praxis advocate and demonstrate.

No one who is 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV chops up or discards any scripture, but you must when there is an apparent contradiction to passages that say the exact opposite to different groups of people in the Bible!

As to rightly dividing is to separate one from another. We can see a biblical example of rightly dividing as the Lord will rightly divide the nations (also at the second coming):

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

Matthew 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:


As far as what Paul writes that needs to be rightly divided/seperated one from another is the word of truth

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

And Paul defines the word of truth as “the gospel of your salvation”!

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


There's more than one gospel in your Bible. If you don't separate out the gospel that is "the gospel of YOUR salvation" as mentioned in Ephesians 1:13 KJV above, from others, you could be believing the wrong gospel that is not the gospel that is the power of God to save you in the dispensation of the grace of God. Our good news 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) must be divided out from other good news in the Bible.

I just did . . .

No, you didn't.

Dispensationalism.

Wow, that was deep. What about it was wrong? Give us an example or two and how did you determine it to be wrong?

The Holy Spirit leading us into Christ-centered Truth.

How do you know it was the Holy Spirit?

Dispies are not Christ-centered.

Is that why most here on TOL are preaching the cross in every thread they are in?

They are sensational centered, rapture centered, anti-Jew centered, and/or Paul centered.

We are not ashamed of the testimony of our Lord nor of His prisoner Paul! We glory in the cross, our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ. Why would you call those bad things?

Their view is modern, humanistic, recent, and not historal orthodoxy at all. Covenant Theology, held by saints throughout history, reveals all this in the most obvious manner and terms.

Your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. How did you come away studying the KJB (as mentioned in another thread) and not see different people, commands, requirements, gospels, doctrine and inheritances? Who influenced you to gloss over all of the differences and conclude it's all the same?

 

[heir]

Do yourself a favor, GM, and read that sentence again. Carefully now.

This is where you gospel dividers really mess up at.

What is the word of truth that you must study to shew thyself approved unto God by rightly dividing (2 Timothy 2:15 KJV)?

 

[Crucible]

What is the word of truth that you must study to shew thyself approved unto God by rightly dividing (2 Timothy 2:15 KJV)?

The Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and most importantly, the Reformed Protestants )) ALL hold to replacement theology- Spiritual Israel is as fundamental to Christianity as the Trinity.

The gospel reflects only one message, as God never bargains divisively, ever. It is not in His nature, and you all have 'divided' it into madness.

 

[heir]

The Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and most importantly, the Reformed Protestants )) ALL hold to replacement theology- Spiritual Israel is as fundamental to Christianity as the Trinity.

The gospel reflects only one message, as God never bargains divisively, ever. It is not in His nature, and you all have 'divided' it into madness.

That's your answer to, "What is the word of truth that you must study to shew thyself approved unto God by rightly dividing (2 Timothy 2:15 KJV)?" How sad!

2 Corinthians 4:3-4 KJV

 

[Danoh]

Heh . . I was brainwashed for 7 years in a dispie group, and rescued by the power, truth, and Spirit of God who led me into all truth. John 16:13

First, let's see that in its' proper light, nang...

:rotfl:

That out of the way, let's put this dishonesty of yours, in its proper perspective also, nang.

Some of the most strident opponents of dispensationalism on TOL have a few odd things in common. (a) They claim they were once hardcore dispies, even though (b) they clearly do not understand the basics of it, particularly of MAD, and so (c) they invariably misrepresent it while (d) claiming WE are the ones who are misrepresenting it.

Very strange phenomenon.

Moving on, let's bring in another witness against you, nang...

How can you say that when you do not even 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV? You can neither define it or tell anyone how. What is it that they were teaching you that was brainwashing?

Let's add to that, your own witness - of your incompetence...

The original Greek root word "orthos" translated as "divide" or "expound" means to teach with much plainness compared to the dawn and the clearest of lights.

It does not carry the connotation of "dividing" by chopping up and discarding as your MAD doctrines and praxis advocate and demonstrate.

Just as, when asked the following; you lied...

What was your final authority to hold up to their teaching? IOW, how do you know what they were teaching you was not the truth?

What was it you replied?

The Holy Spirit leading us into Christ-centered Truth.

The fact is, you lying incompetent, that the field of Medicine gets its' word "ORTHOdontics" from the same Greek word "orthos."

ORTHOdontics deals with the issue of making teeth STRAIGHT, RIGHT, or ARIGHTing them.

Just as the word ORTHOdox is the issue of that which is considered the normally accepted STRAIGHT, or RIGHT doctrine.

Further, in Medicine there is the word TricoTOMY, which is the issue in the practice of surgery, of a three-fold CUT, or DIVISION.

In 2 Timothy 2:15's Greek word "orthotomeo" the "ortho" part of the word is NOT, as you not only have incompetently asserted, but have also dishonestly asserted the Spirit led you to conclude, is the word "divide" or "expound."

Orthos is the word "right" or "straight" (as in what you proved yourself incapable of - of being STRAIGHT with us).

It is the word "tomeo" that refers to DIVIDING or CUTTING, you dishonest incompetent.

This is the STRAIGHT skinny about you, to you, by your own witness against the Spirit, you liar.

Yours is not RIGHT. You are not RIGHT.

Do RIGHT by yourself right about now - CUT to the chase; do the RIGHT thing; be STRAIGHT with yourself, and slap yourself into next week just after you read this.

Why right away?

Because it is the RIGHT thing to do...

"Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil" - Ecclesiastes 8:11.

 

[heir]

The gospel reflects only one message, as God never bargains divisively, ever. It is not in His nature, and you all have 'divided' it into madness.

It is not divisive (as you say) to rightly divide as we can see from the 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV verse alone that it is approved unto God! What's divisive is your dedication to denominationalism above rather than following Paul (1 Corinthians 4:15-16 KJV) that we could speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among us, that we be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment as Paul beseeched us (1 Corinthians 1:10 KJV)/ walk worthy of the vocation wherewith we are called (Ephesians 4:1-6 KJV).