ECT There is only one Gospel
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Ah, ah, ah - I knew it - you're, you're, you're - uh, uh - a Jehovah's Witness!!!
Lol; just messin.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Well, I will first quote one of your cohorts, who gives answer to your question, quite well, and I agree (for once) with him:
See, it takes faith and trust in the goodness of God, to declare Him just in all His decrees and providence. God cannot be unjust.
Even if God created all mankind, and they volitionally sinned universally, and God had determined to eliminate all of us and every single man, woman, and child perished . . God would still be declared just.
You are the one making this accusation. And you do so wrongly, apparently thinking men are innocent and without blame. Not what the Scriptures teach. Romans 3:10-19
No person ever born, deserves God's mercy, love, and grace. All deserve God's wrath.
God created Adam good, and Adam volitionally shook his fist at God and defied God's commands. And you dare to call God unjust for imputing sin to Adam?
You are championing sin and darkness, while opposing light and life.
The answer you haughtily demand from me, is near to you, in God's Word:
Romans 9:14-20
musterion
Well-known member
That doesn't bother me one bit. I have not registered to vote here in N.C. I've doubted I will. The last time I know I voted was in '08...I think I may have voted in '12 but knew Obama had it in the bag. Can't recall for sure.
Once I saw how the GOP shivved Palin (like her or hate her), and then how the Tea Party was quickly neutralized, and how Paul Ryan bent over for Obama once he became speaker, that was it. I became part of the Let It Burn crowd. But some part of me keeps saying I need to vote against Clinton, even though I know it won't matter, that she already has it in the bag.
But even if she doesn't, what difference will it make in the long run? Earthly speaking, we may lose it all with Trump. We will lose it all with Clinton. But isn't that what's supposed to happen? So does my involvement really matter?
Nope.
I just need to dump it all once and for all as the skubalon it is.
I have a Christian friend who believes that Presidents are chosen behind the scenes by "Shadow Rulers" who pull the strings. Is this true, who knows for sure? Obama came out of nowhere and became the President of the U.S. Obama also pretty near bankrupted this country and demoralized it at the same time. (What a guy)
If Hitlary gets in office (she's most likely a shoe-in) she'll continue where Obama left off for another eight years. (Two terms) It is my personal opinion (I might be wrong) that this country will never see another conservative President in office. Our country is leaning more and more towards liberalism and its many aspects. The Bible tells us that things in the last days will grow worse, so we really shouldn't be too surprised at what we see happening today.
Yes, quite so. But the debate isn't for her benefit, although she will derive some benefit from it indirectly, even if that benefit is undetectable by any of us.
I see what you mean.
That is actually a great subject to study out - one of the higher truths of THE Mystery - what all God is up to beyond saving people; how he is bringing said "up to" about, towards what intended end; and where the world out there fits within it all.
Its a fascinating study in its own right.
And it sure beats all the "that's not for us" we were never meant to stay at so consistently. Let alone; so long...
On to its' intended perfecting; then!
Study it out, one and all; and the best toward each of you in your doing so.
I really cannot tell if you're being stupid or stubborn or stubbornly stupid.
I am not denying that God is just. I'm saying that the fact that God is just, proves your doctrine false.
There are two truth claims that Calvinists make that cannot both be true...
1. God is just.
2. God predestined people to Hell before He ever created them and for no reason at all other than because He wanted to.
One of those claims is false because they are mutually exclusive. Arbitrary and Just are not synonyms they are opposites.
You have made the claim that you are able to rationally defend your beliefs. So do it. Show me the argument that presents those two ideas as logically compatible.
You won't be able to do it without redefining the word "just".
And it is the word "just" that you'll redefine, not "predestine". It is always the qualitative attributes of God that get the axe with Calvinists.
Of course! But that's the biggest "if" that has ever come out of your mouth! In fact, it's not "even if" as you put it, it's "ONLY if"!
The whole point is that your doctrine specifically states that a person ending up in Heaven or Hell has nothing to do with what they have done. Volition doesn't come into it at all with the Calvinist.
I make no such claim. I really honestly cannot tell if this is stupidity on your part or not.
What I am claiming is not that man is actually innocent but that they would not be guilty IF they cannot do otherwise as the Calvinist teaches. I'm not saying that the real God is unjust, I'm saying that the pretend god of Calvinism is unjust (or would be if he existed). The god that predestines people to an eternal Hell before they ever did anything and supposedly as a rhetorical consequence of actions that your god predestined that they would do in a manner which renders doing otherwise impossible.
The only exception is the Man, Jesus Christ.
Your doctrine teaches that Adam could not have done otherwise. His action was therefore not volitional, by definition (if you've actually read Clark, you'll recognize that an argument by definition is a valid form of argument). If the action was not volition then it wasn't moral in nature and cannot rightly be called sin.
You haven't even demonstrated an ability to understand what is being asked!
No way do I believe that you are this stupid. You're dodging the question intentionally because you know I've cornered you - again.
Go ahead and make another attempt at it, Nang; you and your Clarkian Calvinism!
Show me any rational argument that demonstrates how an arbitrary god can be just.
Resting in Him,
Clete
Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Joh 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
LA
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
Take a shower and treat yourself to a haircut and a shave.
I stand by what I posted. The four Gospels were pertaining to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. Prove me wrong.
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
Yer half right.
It's better than being "Half wrong."
I drove past sale sign earlier that reminded me of you, bro...
"Half Off" :chuckle:
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
Buzz off Egyptian.
I gave my back to those who strike, and my cheeks to those who pull out the beard; I hid not my face from disgrace and spitting. (Isaiah 50:6)
Pharaoh sent for Joseph at once, and he was quickly brought from the prison. After he shaved and changed his clothes, he went in and stood before Pharaoh. (Genesis 41:14)
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
heir
TOL Subscriber
He can't.