ECT There is only one Gospel

[Lazy afternoon]

LA is not a female, but a grandfather, as best I know.

A great Grandfather.

LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
I want to take this opportunity to tell you that I've been very suspicious of you for sometime now, in fact, I'd even go so far as to say that you're a fraud.
Let me give these reasons for that statement:



You're very undefined when it comes to stating what it means to be a Christian, i.e. a follower of Christ. While you use many verses from Scripture, from what I've seen, you never use your own words.



(Did I mention that heir never uses her own words when it comes to stating what it means to be a Christian?). I take back my earlier fraud statement, respectfully, I think you have mental issues.

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarriorFrom what I've seen you believe that "faith" in Jesus Christ alone makes one a Christian. What exactly does that mean, i.e faith that He died on the cross and rose from the dead, ascending into Heaven?



Let me get this straight: believing that Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again on the third day automatically makes one a Christian, i.e. a follower of Christ?

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
Two other things that raises warning flags for me about you are the following:

From what I've seen you give no credence to the good works that Christians are to do; why is that?



Are you aware that it is because Christians aren't politically active that we as a society have become morally depraved? Abortion, homosexuality, pornography, etc. etc.. Are you not concerned about those things or is your purpose here on earth solely to prepare for the afterlife?

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
The other warning flag is the people that are your allies:

Nick M., Grosnick Marowbe, Patrick jane to name just three. Of all of the TOL'ers that I've run across, I can say without hesitation that those 3 are the biggest haters on TOL. Is hate a Christian virtue in your mind?



When Nick M. isn't "testifying, he's calling me a "faggot" and a "dyke" (poor Nick, he doesn't even know that men can't be lesbians) for telling the truth about a godless Presidential candidate. Gronick Marowbe continuously calls me a hater for standing up for God's Word and decency. Patrick Jane seems to think that Jesus embraces loving homosexual unions and accuses others who stand up for God's Word of being "a perv". Are you not bothered by the actions of your friends or are you so removed from reality that you don't care?



True followers of Christ, not people who spend day and night reciting Scripture.



Seriously, seek help.

Their satanic tactic is to try and rile you up so you will say something they can complain about and get you banned.

They do not love anyone but themselves.

LA

 

[heir]

You're very undefined when it comes to stating what it means to be a Christian, i.e. a follower of Christ. While you use many verses from Scripture, from what I've seen, you never use your own words.

Get saved by trusting the Lord believing 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV and follow Paul (1 Corinthians 4:15-16 KJV).

(Did I mention that heir never uses her own words when it comes to stating what it means to be a Christian?). I take back my earlier fraud statement, respectfully, I think you have mental issues.

There is no other way for you to be saved than to trust the Lord after hearing and believing the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV). Our salvation is by grace through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast (Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV). Is that what's bothering you? You can't work for it?

Let me get this straight: believing that Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again on the third day automatically makes one a Christian, i.e. a follower of Christ?

Trusting the Lord believing the gospel of Christ will save and seal you (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV). Following Christ is to follow Paul (1 Corinthians 4:15-16 KJV).

Are you aware that it is because Christians aren't politically active that we as a society have become morally depraved? Abortion, homosexuality, pornography, etc. etc.. Are you not concerned about those things or is your purpose here on earth solely to prepare for the afterlife?

2 Corinthians 5:18-21 KJV, 2 Timothy 2:1-4 KJV

When Nick M. isn't "testifying, he's calling me a "faggot" and a "dyke" (poor Nick, he doesn't even know that men can't be lesbians) for telling the truth about a godless Presidential candidate. Gronick Marowbe continuously calls me a hater for standing up for God's Word and decency. Patrick Jane seems to think that Jesus embraces loving homosexual unions and accuses others who stand up for God's Word of being "a perv". Are you not bothered by the actions of your friends or are you so removed from reality that you don't care?

If you are being called names without cause take it up with a mod.

True followers of Christ, not people who spend day and night reciting Scripture.

Oh, right because "true followers of Christ" would never spend their time "reciting scripture".

2 Timothy 4:2-5 KJV!

Just what are "true followers of Christ" spending the Lord's time doing?

Seriously, seek help.

the only way I know how (Ephesians 6:10-19 KJV, Philippians 1:9-10 KJV, Colossians 2:6-7 KJV, 1 Timothy 4:16 KJV, 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV)!

 

[musterion]

The best that a believer can hope for in this context is to live peaceably with all men and to obey those in governmental rule. But to work toward saving or even improving this degenerating world is out of the question because it simply will not happen.

Trying to save it is forbidden for the simple fact that it cannot be done without being yoked together in common social and political cause with unbelievers, which is itself forbidden. In any case, the whole thing has been and will continue to be completely corrupted, despite whatever we may do (like voting). EVEN WITH THE PRIOR POLITICAL INVOLVEMENT OF BELIEVERS, LOOK WHERE WE'VE STILL ENDED UP! AND IT'S GOING TO GET WORSE.

The believer is a citizen of heaven, just passing through. If he really had faith in what he says he believes (and that includes myself) he'd live out the fact that he has no real stake in this world and stop letting himself getting sucked into it.

God says it's going to get worse before it burns...so what exactly is there to save? Only that which God said is fit to be destroyed.

 

[heir]

The best that a believer can hope for in this context is to live peaceably with all men and to obey those in governmental rule. But to work toward saving or even improving this degenerating world is out of the question because it simply will not happen.

Trying to save it is forbidden for the simple fact that it cannot be done without being yoked together in common social and political cause with unbelievers, which is itself forbidden. In any case, the whole thing has been and will continue to be completely corrupted, despite whatever we may do (like voting). EVEN WITH THE PRIOR INVOLVEMENT OF BELIEVERS, LOOK WHERE WE'VE STILL ENDING UP.

The believer is a citizen of heaven, just passing through. If he really had faith in what he says he believes (and that includes myself) he'd live out the fact that he has no real stake in this world and stop letting himself getting sucked into it.

God says it's going to get worse before it burns...so what exactly is there to save?

Amen! Politics is not why we are here as this world is on a course (2 Timothy 3:13 KJV, Ephesians 2:2 KJV) that is different than the course the Lord has us on (2 Timothy 1:8-10 KJV)! We are not change agents (or double agents for that matter Colossians 3:1-4 KJV, Philippians 3:20 KJV), but ambassadors for Christ (2 Corinthians 5:18-21 KJV)! May we finish our course with joy (2 Timothy 4:7-8 KJV)!

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

The whole of the OT law preached that Christ would die for the sins of men, including John the Baptist, and the fact that Christ had died before their very eyes and had shown them the scriptures pertaining to Him, the first of His Church knew very well of their need to be washed from their sins as they had, but you see no need to be washed of your sins.

LA

:chuckle:

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Indeed I am, as are all of the elect of Israel to this very day, who are the Israel of God.

:chuckle:

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

The new covenant is with the House of Israel, and Christ has included myself and others in it who have received the Holy Spirit as the first of the Church did, who washed away their sins as Paul did.

:chuckle:

 

[musterion]

Amen! Politics is not why we are here as this world is on a course (2 Timothy 3:13 KJV, Ephesians 2:2 KJV) that is different than the course the Lord has us on (2 Timothy 1:8-10 KJV)! We are not change agents (or double agents for that matter Colossians 3:1-4 KJV, Philippians 3:20 KJV), but ambassadors for Christ (2 Corinthians 5:18-21 KJV)! May we finish our course with joy (2 Timothy 4:7-8 KJV)!

Despite everything I just wrote, I still understand where people like ACW are coming from. I used to be one of them. I empathize, especially now that I have kids. The bottom line is fear, and I sometimes find myself torn by it, even now. So I have to trust God that whatever He does, or allows to happen, is for the good.

 

[Clete]

How can you, as a professing Christian, even ask the question? All those gifted with faith to believe in God and His Word, confess He is just. There is no reason for me to argue that truth with you, if you are His child, is there?

Typical Calvinist B.S.

I didn't ask you to argue that God is just, I asked you to argue that the idea that God is just does not contradict the idea that God predestined people to Hell for no reason at all.

The two truth claims, BOTH made by Reformed theology are contradictory and as your favorite Calvinist would insist, two truth claims that are in contradiction to each other cannot both be true.

So explain it, Nang, since you claimed the ability to do so.

All that God is, and all that God has revealed about His Person and His intents and His promises, are accepted by regenerated souls, through the witness of His Holy Spirit who indwells us and enlightens us to the divine truths provided in the Holy Scriptures.

It is beyond my comprehension how anyone who claims even a cursory alegience to reason can say such things without seeing the inherrently irrational nature of such a position.

First of all, if this the Calvinist's understanding of spiritual truth is divine, how could any Calvinist ever get any doctrine wrong? Why would there ever be a disagreement on any topic? You even want to distance yourself from Calvin himself! How much more enlightened by the Holy Spirit can a guy be than the originator of your whole doctrinal system?

Van Til says such divine truth is different than what the mortal can comprehend, but Scripture promises believers the Holy Spirit will lead them into all truth. John 16:13-14.

So we're agreed then. Van Til was not enlightened by the Holy Spirit.

Now, all through my discussions with you, I have attempted to discern what your gripe is regarding my biblical beliefs, and I come up with only two possibilities:

1. You believe that salvation is and should be presented as universal.

You're stupid. There isn't anything I've said that would suggest one whiff of universalism. Give me a break.

2. You deny the attributes of God, and desire to bring Him down to a lower and human level.

I deny what YOU consider the attributes of God!

This is a theology debate forum, Nang. You claim to be able to rationally defend your doctrine and are now wanting to worm your way out of attempting what you know will be a failed attempt and want to pretend its because my motives are blasphemous. What a joke!

Either motivation, is sorry and blasphemous.

It is not blasphemy to deny that God predestined people to an eternal Hell for no reason whatsoever. It is not blasphemy to challenge anyone who does believe such a thing to make an argument in defense of it - especially when she has made the open claim to being able to do so.

And I do not care to be drug down into your lower levels of understanding and suffer your hatefulness exhibited towards my own beliefs.

I felt that way from the first post I read from you, and am sorry to say you still show no love or respect for those who do not hold to your heresy.

I dispise you to a degree that words cannot express. But it isn't because you aren't an Open Theist, its because you are a Calvinist. You don't just accept the TULIP doctrines and warm a pew on Sundays like most people who call themselves Calvinists, though. You know that Calvinism teaches that the God is arbitrary and you not only believe it, you teach others to believe it as well and even equate such beliefs with the gospel itself (as you've done in this very post). You are a wolf in sheep's clothing and a liar and since you are only here on TOL because I ground your husband to dust on another website, I've made it my mission to expose you as the blasphemous liar that you are. Get used to it, prove me wrong, or leave. You pick!

So be it . . .

Gordon Clark never changed his views because of opposition from others, and neither will I. So give it up, as far as I am concerned. You will never convince me to turn away from the Holy Scriptures or the Reformed Confessions of Faith.

I never expected to do so!

Right now, all I want is for you to at least make an attempt to do that which you claimed you could. Make a rational argument that makes the arbitrary God of Calvinism just. Show me the argument, Nang! I know you don't know the argument yourself, so just find it in Clark's writtings and quote it here, if it exists (which it doesn't). Everyone knows that you can claim the ability to do it but no one has ever seen it done. Show us all how your doctrine is rational and how all us Open Theists are dolts and dullards. Isn't that what you're here for?

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[heir]

Despite everything I just wrote, I still understand where people like ACW are coming from. I used to be one of them. I empathize, especially now that I have kids. The bottom line is fear, and I sometimes find myself torn by it, even now. So I have to trust God that whatever He does, or allows to happen, is for the good.

I too know where he's coming from having been there before in time past with all of my self righteous, religious but lost finger pointing blame game. It wasn't until I finally got saved and began coming unto the knowledge of the truth through study that I began to understand why it is we are here. It has everything to do with the grace of God and the ministry of reconciliation while the god of this world would like nothing more than for members of the Body of Christ to be preoccupied with this world.

 

[musterion]

while the god of this world would like nothing more than for members of the Body of Christ to be preoccupied with this world.

Exactly right.

 

[heir]

So I have to trust God that whatever He does, or allows to happen, is for the good.

:up: God knows what He is doing!

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

I always go back to the fact that neither the LORD Jesus nor the Apostle Paul attempted to change Rome or the world one iota.

 

[musterion]

I always go back to the fact that neither the LORD Jesus nor the Apostle Paul attempted to change Rome or the world one iota.

I know, I'm talking about simply voting at this point. It's to where I don't see a reason to anymore, if there ever was one.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Typical Calvinist B.S.

I didn't ask you to argue that God is just, I asked you to argue that the idea that God is just does not contradict the idea that God predestined people to Hell for no reason at all.

The two truth claims, BOTH made by Reformed theology are contradictory and as your favorite Calvinist would insist, two truth claims that are in contradiction to each other cannot both be true.

So explain it, Nang, since you claimed the ability to do so.


It is beyond my comprehension how anyone who claims even a cursory alegience to reason can say such things without seeing the inherrently irrational nature of such a position.

First of all, if this the Calvinist's understanding of spiritual truth is divine, how could any Calvinist ever get any doctrine wrong? Why would there ever be a disagreement on any topic? You even want to distance yourself from Calvin himself! How much more enlightened by the Holy Spirit can a guy be than the originator of your whole doctrinal system?


So we're agreed then. Van Til was not enlightened by the Holy Spirit.


You're stupid. There isn't anything I've said that would suggest one whiff of universalism. Give me a break.


I deny what YOU consider the attributes of God!

This is a theology debate forum, Nang. You claim to be able to rationally defend your doctrine and are now wanting to worm your way out of attempting what you know will be a failed attempt and want to pretend its because my motives are blasphemous. What a joke!


It is not blasphemy to deny that God predestined people to an eternal Hell for no reason whatsoever. It is not blasphemy to challenge anyone who does believe such a thing to make an argument in defense of it - especially when she has made the open claim to being able to do so.


I dispise you to a degree that words cannot express. But it isn't because you aren't an Open Theist, its because you are a Calvinist. You don't just accept the TULIP doctrines and warm a pew on Sundays like most people who call themselves Calvinists, though. You know that Calvinism teaches that the God is arbitrary and you not only believe it, you teach others to believe it as well and even equate such beliefs with the gospel itself (as you've done in this very post). You are a wolf in sheep's clothing and a liar and since you are only here on TOL because I ground your husband to dust on another website, I've made it my mission to expose you as the blasphemous liar that you are. Get used to it, prove me wrong, or leave. You pick!


I never expected to do so!

Right now, all I want is for you to at least make an attempt to do that which you claimed you could. Make a rational argument that makes the arbitrary God of Calvinism just. Show me the argument, Nang! I know you don't know the argument yourself, so just find it in Clark's writtings and quote it here, if it exists (which it doesn't). Everyone knows that you can claim the ability to do it but no one has ever seen it done. Show us all how your doctrine is rational and how all us Open Theists are dolts and dullards. Isn't that what you're here for?

Resting in Him,
Clete

She's BRAINWASHED to the hilt.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Their satanic tactic is to try and rile you up so you will say something they can complain about and get you banned.

They do not love anyone but themselves.

LA

:rotfl:

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

A great Grandfather.

LA

Nothing about you is, "Grand." :crackup:

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

It just proves that Christ is not in them.

They have their religion to protect lest they be found out.

LA

:rotfl:

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Only by the estimation of one who has no regard for the words of Jesus.

Trying to defame another because you disagree with the teachings of the bible is a plain old satanic tactic, easily identifiable by those who know and walk with the Lord.

Joh 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Not that I care much for the likes of you and your religious friends who do nothing but spit on people.






LA

The book of John pertained to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. You can't seem to get anything right.