The Wisdom of "Eye for an eye" theology

[Rimi]

Divine justice or the other, imperfect kind?

I responding to PurX who said:

When we have a trial, and someone is convicted of murder, we aren't locking them up because they're "bad", we're locking them up because they're a danger to society.

He is mistaken. It's called a justice system because the victims require justice served on the perpetrator. One might steal hubcabs (do they do that anymore?) and isn't necessarily hurting someone. But justice must be served NOT because this hubcab theft is a danger but because he stole and it was wrong. Justice is justice.

 

[billwald]

>People don't refrain from murder just because there is a law against it.

"Law without penalty is merely advice." Many people refrain from murder because they are afraid of getting caught.

 

[billwald]

It is called a justice system for political reasons. Follow the money trail. Many laws and "systems" are wrongly named. Consider the current arguments over SS, which always was a welfare system plus a payroll tax.

 

[aikido7]

Justice is not only "served on the perpetrator." In a perfect world, the victim, too, must "get served." The Greek ideal is iconically expressed in the blindfolded statue with a set of scales in one hand.

Justice is balance. We can talk about revenge, but if we are to do so we are talking about something entirely different from justice.

 

[Rimi]

Revenge is God's, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't seek justice from government.

 

[aikido7]

Revenge is God's, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't seek justice from government.

As a Christian, I believe that revenge is no part of the God incarnated in Jesus. At the same time, I know that revenge is an all-too-human tendency, and much of the time we project those traits onto the god we want to believe instead of taking accountablity for the revenge fantasies we harbor.

 

[Hasan_ibn_Sabah]

If you guys keep bringing up the subject of justice in this thread, with all fairness I will warn you I will bringing up the subject of mercy. Which God requires of us.

 

[aikido7]

If you guys keep bringing up the subject of justice in this thread, with all fairness I will warn you I will bringing up the subject of mercy. Which God requires of us.

I believe that divine justice IS merciful. And I also realize that this is not the orthodox (i.e., popular) position. But I believe it is consistent with the Jesus I see in the gospels.

 

[PureX]

There is no justice in this life. The best we can get is compensation, and/or vengeance, but neither of these make life just. And when we think they will, we usually end up making life even more unfair and violent than it already is.

 

[Chileice]

There is no justice in this life. The best we can get is compensation, and/or vengeance, but neither of these make life just. And when we think they will, we usually end up making life even more unfair and violent than it already is.

You just won the Chileice "Quote of the week award". :first:

Life is unfair. It happens... but thankfully, so do blessings!
Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy. That is about the highest thing anyone can hope to attain. I choose mercy, because Heaven knows I need it!

 

[Rimi]

As a Christian, I believe that revenge is no part of the God incarnated in Jesus. At the same time, I know that revenge is an all-too-human tendency, and much of the time we project those traits onto the god we want to believe instead of taking accountablity for the revenge fantasies we harbor.

Jesus could have but didn't or He would not have fulfilled His mission. But Jesus is God, and God said, "Vengeance is Mine." Vengeance ain't so bad afterall.

 

[Rimi]

If you guys keep bringing up the subject of justice in this thread, with all fairness I will warn you I will bringing up the subject of mercy. Which God requires of us.

Just as vengeance was not given for the individual to act out, mercey was not given to the authorities to act out.

 

[Rimi]

I believe that divine justice IS merciful. And I also realize that this is not the orthodox (i.e., popular) position. But I believe it is consistent with the Jesus I see in the gospels.

I agree that divine justice is merciful to the victims.

 

[Hasan_ibn_Sabah]

Just as vengeance was not given for the individual to act out, mercey was not given to the authorities to act out.

Mercy is required by all by God's own word. God requires us to act mercifully.

 

[Rimi]

Was Jesus merciful to Herod?

 

[Hasan_ibn_Sabah]

Was Jesus merciful to Herod?

Jesus was merciful to everyone, while we were his enemies he died for us all. If you don't want to show mercy, if you don't want to be forgiving, that is up to you. But let be warn you, whatsoever you sow, you shall reap. You can make all the excuses you want not to follow the commands of Christ to love you enemies, but its not going to help you one bit.

Because one day you are going to answer before God, if you sowed hatred before, then His justice will make sure you reap hatred, if you sow unforgiveness before Him, like you have been doing...surely you will reap unforgiveness, since you embrace unmercifullness so much you are going to reap it - in abundance - your cup filled and overflowing.

You will face God, i dont know what game you think you are playing, I think you are using God to justisfy your own hatred, your own wrath, your own unforgiving nature - but someday if you keep this up - you are going to face an unforgiving and wrathful God yourself.

 

[billwald]

One out of every 100 people in the USofA is in the slammer and people still claim that they are not safe. Would we be safe if it was 2 out of 100? Maybe we have a risk perception problem, not a crime problem. "Crime" is big business. In Washinton State most police officers make over $50,000 and we are unionized. Areas are fighting to get prisons because of the jobs.

We can no longer afford revenge or justice. I suggest a system that better seperates the civilized people from the savages. Everybody gots to be someplace. I suggest self governing "Cities of Refuge."

 

[Rimi]

Jesus was merciful to everyone, while we were his enemies he died for us all. If you don't want to show mercy, if you don't want to be forgiving, that is up to you. But let be warn you, whatsoever you sow, you shall reap. You can make all the excuses you want not to follow the commands of Christ to love you enemies, but its not going to help you one bit.

Because one day you are going to answer before God, if you sowed hatred before, then His justice will make sure you reap hatred, if you sow unforgiveness before Him, like you have been doing...surely you will reap unforgiveness, since you embrace unmercifullness so much you are going to reap it - in abundance - your cup filled and overflowing.

You will face God, i dont know what game you think you are playing, I think you are using God to justisfy your own hatred, your own wrath, your own unforgiving nature - but someday if you keep this up - you are going to face an unforgiving and wrathful God yourself.

You reeeeeally need to study Revelations. Don't have Scriptures right in front of me, but I think it's Chapter 6 wherein the saints under the altar cry out for vengeance, and by implication not mercy. Please read this. Then consider. . . there are are in Heaven! In the very presence of God Almighty!! And what are they doing? What are they saying?? Go on! Read it! OK, now, read a little further. Read God's reaction. He does not rebuke them! He does not reap what they have sown, calling down curses of no mercy on them! He calms them down, hushes them, and assures them that in a little while more He will repay! He'll get the bad guys who killed them! . . . . if you read this and still don't get it, then you're hopeless. You are lacking in wisdom, joy and discernment. Your warning to me is of absolutely NO value because you do not speak with knowledge or authority. If you still don't get it with those verses in Revelation, then you are a fool.

 

[Rimi]

One out of every 100 people in the USofA is in the slammer and people still claim that they are not safe. Would we be safe if it was 2 out of 100? Maybe we have a risk perception problem, not a crime problem. "Crime" is big business. In Washinton State most police officers make over $50,000 and we are unionized. Areas are fighting to get prisons because of the jobs.

We can no longer afford revenge or justice. I suggest a system that better seperates the civilized people from the savages. Everybody gots to be someplace. I suggest self governing "Cities of Refuge."

Yeah, and they can all be in France.

 

[wickwoman]

Name a crime that is not associated with sin, Purex. :think:

Speeding
Copywright infringement
insider trading


What isn't a sin and is now a crime:

marrying a child
polygamy