The Trinity

[Bright Raven]

The Papal Basilica of St. Peter in the Vatican

What's your point?

 

[God's Truth]

What's your point?

My point is that I want to help pops see the truth by truth.

 

[Tambora]

I know what you are saying. However, do know too that there are many Christian denominations who distort the Holy Bible.

There are many majestic looking Catholic Cathedrals, and even many Mormon Temples.

Do you want people to write God off because of them?

I want to speak calmly with pops to help him see the truth, and not go by what people who might distort what the Qur'an says. I can show him the truth without the lies of false teachers.

It's not about the looks of the building.
The building is pretty.

It's the written inscriptions on it, passages from the Quran repeated over and over again ------ Allah has no son.
And anyone that claims he does have a son is an infidel.

 

[God's Truth]

It's not about the looks of the building.
The building is pretty.

It's the written inscriptions on it, passages from the Quran repeated over and over again ------ Allah has no son.
And anyone that claims he does have a son is an infidel.

I know what you are saying.

However, know too that the Christian religion has many false denominations that speak falseness about the God of the Holy Bible too.

The Mormon church has many false teachings, as does the Catholic church.

I want to show pops how the Qur'an is false about what it says about Jesus, and I don't want to say what false teachers say about it.

 

[God's Truth]

I am so late for work, and no one here really cares about me. Hopefully I can discuss more tonight.

 

[God's Truth]

You really should know better by now.

Goodbye

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I am sorry that I thought you were threatening me. I have had people who tried to put curses on me. I should have known that you were not speaking like that, but you are not speaking clearly at times.

 

[Tambora]

Let's get back on topic, please.

Done.
Encouraging further discussion on that filth sickens me.

 

[God's Truth]

Grace is that though we be sinners we have access to salvation through the Messiah, the Way to GOD, by abiding by His way words, command, and example.

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I am glad that you agree with me about that.

 

[God's Truth]

It says specifically every time that mercy is best.

Did Christ say He came with a sword.

Does he tell us brother will kill father and brother? These things are speaking of spiritual death and the cutting away of the opposer.

Every time it goes back to "for you mercy is best"

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I understand what Jesus says. Jesus does not say to kill. Does the Qur'an say to physically kill?

 

[Tambora]

I know what you are saying.

However, know too that the Christian religion has many false denominations that speak falseness about the God of the Holy Bible too.

The Mormon church has many false teachings, as does the Catholic church.

I want to show pops how the Qur'an is false about what it says about Jesus, and I don't want to say what false teachers say about it.

Go for it.
I think you and Pops will get along beautifully in your own tread about the filth of the Quran.
And I will agree not to make a single post in that thread, but just watch.

 

[God's Truth]

You say trinity is wrong do you not? You also believe the quran to be wrong do you not?

The entire Quran is anti trinity because it conflates creation with Creator. It is why Jesus isn't referred to as the son of GOD, yet it has multiple references to Him being the Word and the Messiah. You already know why. God is Spirit. Why does it say He wasn't killed? Because you can't kill GOD.
It does not specify physical or spiritual.

Regardless, you won't get that.

You don't seem to get that ALL humans have their own spirit that lives within them.

Jesus' spirit IS the Spirit of God the Father come as a Son of man.

Jesus' spirit is the Spirit of God.

Spirits do not die.

However, only the Son of God can raise his own body from the grave.

What you should her is;


Mark 3: 22. And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils. 23. And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan? 24. And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. 25. And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. 26. And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.

If trinity is of Satan and Quran is of Satan then how it that Quran speaks openly against trinity doctrine?

Just because the Qur'an speaks against the trinity doctrine does not mean it knows the truth.

If submission to the Word of GOD is of GOD and the Quran of satan then how can the Quran speak of submission and obedience to GOD and HIS Word and the Messiah and the Messengers and the prophets of GOD?

The Qur'an says things about Jesus that are not true.

I insisted you leave it alone, or perhaps I should have, but you are in a bind with them or me. One or the others.

Please do decide soon.

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Maybe with both of you?

 

[God's Truth]

Go for it.
I think you and Pops will get along beautifully in your own tread about the filth of the Quran.
And I will agree not to make a single post in that thread, but just watch.

I don't think he will make a thread on it anyway.

You speak falseness about me so much. Don't you care anything about the truth?

 

[popsthebuilder]

I am sorry that I thought you were threatening me. I have had people who tried to put curses on me. I should have known that you were not speaking like that, but you are not speaking clearly at times.

I do not need or want your apology. You have done nothing wrong. You stand by your beliefs without mockery and excommunication of me and genuinely think I need help. I will not fault you for that.

None want to discuss the actual issues and that is fine.

I cannot force any to open their eyes.

I thought you would grasp what I was saying, but you seem to have not. At some point our line of communication was severed again. It is seemingly unfortunate to my eyes.

I know in reality it ultimately is not though.

I read the Quran before ever even reading the new testament. And though the Bible is closer to me, I will never disregard the Quran.

Please do not try to show me or help me in this matter though you believe I need it. It will pull is apart.

We can drop it.

I am sorry that I am so confusing to you at times.

If you never believe anything else I say, please remember that I wish the very Best for you here and in the ever after.




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[Tambora]

I don't think he will make a thread on it anyway.

You can start the thread.
Show him some of those good debating skills of yours.

 

[God's Truth]

I do not need or want your apology. You have done nothing wrong. You stand by your beliefs without mockery and excommunication of me and genuinely think I need help. I will not fault you for that.

None want to discuss the actual issues and that is fine.

I cannot force any to open their eyes.

I thought you would grasp what I was saying, but you seem to have not. At some point our line of communication was severed again. It is seemingly unfortunate to my eyes.

I know in reality it ultimately is not though.

I read the Quran before ever even reading the new testament. And though the Bible is closer to me, I will never disregard the Quran.

Please do not try to show me or help me in this matter though you believe I need it. It will pull is apart.

We can drop it.

I am sorry that I am so confusing to you at times.

If you never believe anything else I say, please remember that I wish the very Best for you here and in the ever after.




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I wish the best for you, too.

I see that you love the Qur'an.

If we did discuss it, you are right in that I would show you where and how it goes against the Holy Bible.

You might believe as other Islamic people do in that the Holy Bible is full of errors. I am saddened that you would think that about the Holy Bible.

 

[God's Truth]

You can start the thread.
Show him some of those good debating skills of yours.

Now you know you are speaking the truth now, right?

lol

 

[popsthebuilder]

I understand what Jesus says. Jesus does not say to kill. Does the Qur'an say to physically kill?

2:72. And (recall also) when you had (nearly) killed a (great) man (- Jesus), then you differed among yourselves respecting it (- the crucifixion). And Allâh will bring to light that (- Jesus did not die on the cross) which you had been hiding.

3:154. Then, after the sorrow He sent down tranquility upon you - a slumber which overwhelmed a party of you, while another party (of the hypocrites) whom their own personal interests had made anxious, entertained unjustly false notions about Allâh like the false notions (they used to bear in the days) of ignorance. They said, ‘Have we any authority in (the execution of) the matter (of administration)?’ Say, ‘The whole authority rests with Allâh.’ They hide in their minds (- thoughts) which they would not disclose to you. They say, ‘If we had any authority in (the execution of) the matter (of administration) we would not have been killed here.’ Say, ‘Even if you had been confined in your homes, surely those who were ordained to be slain would have, nevertheless, gone forth to the places where they were destined to fall. And (all this that took place in the Battle of Uhud was) that Allâh might reveal what was in your hearts and so that He might purge what was in your minds. And Allâh knows well what is in the minds (of the people).

4:29. O you who believe! Do not consume your (- one another's) property amongst yourselves by unlawful means, rather it be a trade based on free mutual consent. And do not kill your people. Surely, Allâh has been Ever Merciful to you.
4:30. But whoever does any such thing aggressively and unjustly, We shall certainly cast him into Fire. And this is ever easy for Allâh.

4:89. They would like you to reject the faith as they have done themselves, that you may be all alike; therefore, make no friends with them until they emigrate in the cause of Allâh. But if they turn back (to hostility), then capture them and kill them wherever you find them, and do not take anyone of them as a friend or as a helper. 4:90. Different, however, is the case of those who join a people with whom you have a pact, or of those who come over to you whilst their hearts are constricted from fighting against you or fighting against their (own) people. If Allâh had so willed He would have given them power over you, then they certainly would have fought against you. Hence if they leave you alone and do not fight against you but make you an offer of peace then Allâh allows you no way (of fighting) against them.4:91. You will find others (among these hypocrites) who desire to be secure from you as well as safe from their own people. But whenever they are made to have a recourse to hostility (towards the Muslims) they fall headlong into it (as if under compulsion). Therefore if they do not leave you alone, nor make an offer of peace to you nor withhold their hands (from being hostile), then capture them and kill them wherever you find them. And it is these against whom We have given you absolute authority.

4:92. It is not befitting for a believer to kill another believer except (what happens) by mistake; and he who kills a believer by mistake let him set a believing captive of war free and pay blood-money to be handed over to the heirs of the deceased, unless they (- the heirs) forgo it as a free-will offering. But if he (- the slain) is a believer belonging to people hostile to you, then there is still only the (penance of) freeing a believing captive of war; and if he (- the slain) belongs to a people with whom you have a pact, then there is the payment of blood-money, to be handed over to his heirs and (also) the freeing of a believing captive of war; but he who does not find (the means to set free a captive of war,) shall fast two consecutive months, a method of penance (devised) by Allâh. And Allâh is All-Knowing, All-Wise.

4:93. And whoever kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Gehenna, he shall abide therein. Allâh has shown His displeasure against him and has (also) deprived him of His blessings and prepared for him a great punishment.

5:28. ‘Should you lay your hand on me to kill me, I am not at all going to lay my hand on you to kill you. I do fear Allâh, the Lord of the worlds;

5:32. Because of this (incident) We laid down for the Children of Israel that he who kills a human being - unless it be for (murdering) a person or for (reforming) disorder in the country, it is as if he has killed the entire human race. And whoso saves a (human) life it is as if he has saved the entire humankind. Certainly, Our Messengers had already come to them with clear arguments, yet (even after that) many of them were certainly those who committed excesses in the land.

6:151. Say, ‘Come, I will rehearse to you what your Lord has made binding on you; it is that you shall associate not any thing as partner with Him, and that you shall be good to parents, and that you waste not your children because of poverty. It is We Who make provisions for you as well for them too. (Allâh has also enjoined upon you that you) approach not indecencies, whether open or hidden, and that you kill no soul which Allâh has made sacred, except in the cause of justice.’ This has He enjoined you with, so that you may (learn to) abstain (from evil).

That is all I found on killing that was not related to Jesus.

I may be kicked for this because of others fear and hatred but there you go.



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[JudgeRightly]

2:72. And (recall also) when you had (nearly) killed a (great) man (- Jesus), then you differed among yourselves respecting it (- the crucifixion). And Allâh will bring to light that (- Jesus did not die on the cross) which you had been hiding.

3:154. Then, after the sorrow He sent down tranquility upon you - a slumber which overwhelmed a party of you, while another party (of the hypocrites) whom their own personal interests had made anxious, entertained unjustly false notions about Allâh like the false notions (they used to bear in the days) of ignorance. They said, ‘Have we any authority in (the execution of) the matter (of administration)?’ Say, ‘The whole authority rests with Allâh.’ They hide in their minds (- thoughts) which they would not disclose to you. They say, ‘If we had any authority in (the execution of) the matter (of administration) we would not have been killed here.’ Say, ‘Even if you had been confined in your homes, surely those who were ordained to be slain would have, nevertheless, gone forth to the places where they were destined to fall. And (all this that took place in the Battle of Uhud was) that Allâh might reveal what was in your hearts and so that He might purge what was in your minds. And Allâh knows well what is in the minds (of the people).

4:29. O you who believe! Do not consume your (- one another's) property amongst yourselves by unlawful means, rather it be a trade based on free mutual consent. And do not kill your people. Surely, Allâh has been Ever Merciful to you.
4:30. But whoever does any such thing aggressively and unjustly, We shall certainly cast him into Fire. And this is ever easy for Allâh.

4:89. They would like you to reject the faith as they have done themselves, that you may be all alike; therefore, make no friends with them until they emigrate in the cause of Allâh. But if they turn back (to hostility), then capture them and kill them wherever you find them, and do not take anyone of them as a friend or as a helper. 4:90. Different, however, is the case of those who join a people with whom you have a pact, or of those who come over to you whilst their hearts are constricted from fighting against you or fighting against their (own) people. If Allâh had so willed He would have given them power over you, then they certainly would have fought against you. Hence if they leave you alone and do not fight against you but make you an offer of peace then Allâh allows you no way (of fighting) against them.4:91. You will find others (among these hypocrites) who desire to be secure from you as well as safe from their own people. But whenever they are made to have a recourse to hostility (towards the Muslims) they fall headlong into it (as if under compulsion). Therefore if they do not leave you alone, nor make an offer of peace to you nor withhold their hands (from being hostile), then capture them and kill them wherever you find them. And it is these against whom We have given you absolute authority.

4:92. It is not befitting for a believer to kill another believer except (what happens) by mistake; and he who kills a believer by mistake let him set a believing captive of war free and pay blood-money to be handed over to the heirs of the deceased, unless they (- the heirs) forgo it as a free-will offering. But if he (- the slain) is a believer belonging to people hostile to you, then there is still only the (penance of) freeing a believing captive of war; and if he (- the slain) belongs to a people with whom you have a pact, then there is the payment of blood-money, to be handed over to his heirs and (also) the freeing of a believing captive of war; but he who does not find (the means to set free a captive of war,) shall fast two consecutive months, a method of penance (devised) by Allâh. And Allâh is All-Knowing, All-Wise.

4:93. And whoever kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Gehenna, he shall abide therein. Allâh has shown His displeasure against him and has (also) deprived him of His blessings and prepared for him a great punishment.

5:28. ‘Should you lay your hand on me to kill me, I am not at all going to lay my hand on you to kill you. I do fear Allâh, the Lord of the worlds;

5:32. Because of this (incident) We laid down for the Children of Israel that he who kills a human being - unless it be for (murdering) a person or for (reforming) disorder in the country, it is as if he has killed the entire human race. And whoso saves a (human) life it is as if he has saved the entire humankind. Certainly, Our Messengers had already come to them with clear arguments, yet (even after that) many of them were certainly those who committed excesses in the land.

6:151. Say, ‘Come, I will rehearse to you what your Lord has made binding on you; it is that you shall associate not any thing as partner with Him, and that you shall be good to parents, and that you waste not your children because of poverty. It is We Who make provisions for you as well for them too. (Allâh has also enjoined upon you that you) approach not indecencies, whether open or hidden, and that you kill no soul which Allâh has made sacred, except in the cause of justice.’ This has He enjoined you with, so that you may (learn to) abstain (from evil).

That is all I found on killing that was not related to Jesus.

I may be kicked for this because of others fear and hatred but there you go.



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[MENTION=12969]Sherman[/MENTION]

We seem to be getting way off topic with this discussion of the Quran. We need a bit of guidance. Thanks.

 

[Tambora]

I may be kicked for this because of others fear and hatred but there you go.

Oh stop it.
All that was asked was that y'all start a separate thread for y'all to discuss it.
You're "scared" nonsense is lame.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Oh stop it.
All that was asked was that y'all start a separate thread for y'all to discuss it.
You're "scared" nonsense is lame.

Agreed.