ECT The Same Yesterday, and Today, and For Ever

[Jerry Shugart]

You want to take the following verse literally even though it cannot be taken literally since the Lord Jesus was not literally the second man:

"The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven" (1 Cor.15:45-47).​

The subject of Paul's discourse concerns the two different kind of bodies which Christians have now and will have when they are raised up from the dead:

"So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body" (1 Cor.15:42-45).​

So when Paul refers to Adam as being the first man he is simply comparing the first body which Christians will wear to the second body which will be a spiritual body like the Lord Jesus' body now. So unless you want to argue that that the Lord Jesus was literally the second man then you cannot take literally that Adam was the first man.

Now please address what I said about the following verse:

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of Man which is in heaven" (Jn.3:13).​

In the first part of the verse we can see that the subject is "man" and the subject remains the same throughout the verse. In fact, it would make no sense to say that no "man" has ascended up to heaven but the Son of God who came down from heaven.

Do you just think that the Lord Jesus made a mistake when He said that the Son of Man came down from heaven?

 

[JudgeRightly]

You want to take the following verse literally even though it cannot be taken literally since the Lord Jesus was not literally the second man:

"The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven" (1 Cor.15:45-47).​

The subject of Paul's discourse concerns the two different kind of bodies which Christians have now and will have when they are raised up from the dead:

"So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body[/B]" (1 Cor.15:42-45).​

So when Paul refers to Adam as being the first man he is simply comparing the first body which Christians will wear to the second body which will be a spiritual body like the Lord Jesus' body now. So unless you want to argue that that the Lord Jesus was literally the second man then you cannot take literally that Adam was the first man.

Jerry, I'm not sure why you're being so evasive over a simple question.

Here it is again:

So the first man was not Adam?

 

[God's Truth]

Jerry, I'm not sure why you're being so evasive over a simple question.

Here it is again:

So the first man was not Adam?

The first man made of flesh that will die is Adam.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jerry, I'm not sure why you're being so evasive over a simple question.

Here it is again:

So the first man was not Adam?

If the Lord Jesus was the second man then Adam was the first. Your whole idea is based on a "literal" interpretion of that verse even though common sense dictates that it cannot be taken literally.

So it is time to see if you understand this simple principle.

Was the second man the Lord Jesus Christ?

 

[glorydaz]

He never changes:

"And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail" (Heb.1:10-12).​

Perhaps you will tells us why anyone should believe that the Lord Jesus was not Man before He was born of Mary because He states in no uncertain terms that He came down to earth as Man:

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of Man which is in heaven" (Jn.3;13).​

If you will believe Him He said that no "man" has ascended up to heaven but the Man who came down from heaven. According to your view He couldn't have come down as Man.

So you're saying man is God.

 

[God's Truth]

So you're saying man is God.

We are made in His image.

 

[glorydaz]

We are made in His image.

So we are God. :banana:

 

[God's Truth]

So we are God. :banana:

We have a head with eyes, ears, nose. We have arms, legs...does that make us God?

 

[JudgeRightly]

If the Lord Jesus was the second man then Adam was the first. Your whole idea is based on a "literal" interpretion of that verse even though common sense dictates that it cannot be taken literally.

So it is time to see if you understand this simple principle.

Was the second man the Lord Jesus Christ?

Jerry, in Genesis, was the first man Adam or was the first man God?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jerry, in Genesis, was the first man Adam or was the first man God?

What you are doing is ignoring the context of what Paul said because he was speaking of the different bodies.

If you can prove that the Lord Jesus was the second man then you will have proof that Adam was the first man.

And you continue to ignore the Lord Jesus' words where He said that He came down to the earth as a Man so common sense dicates that He was a Man before He took on flesh when He was born of Mary.

Now I will wait on your evidence that the Lord Jesus was the second man.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

So you're saying man is God.

Are you saying that the Lord Jesus is not now both God and Man?

 

[Danoh]

He never changes:

"And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail" (Heb.1:10-12).​

Perhaps you will tells us why anyone should believe that the Lord Jesus was not Man before He was born of Mary because He states in no uncertain terms that He came down to earth as Man:

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of Man which is in heaven" (Jn.3;13).​

If you will believe Him He said that no "man" has ascended up to heaven but the Man who came down from heaven. According to your view He couldn't have come down as Man.

Leave it to you to read a thing into a passage like that one - a passage that Mormons also read their own nonsense into.

He is referring to Who He is: the Son of God from Heaven come down to Earth as the Son of Man.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

He is referring to Who He is: the Son of God from Heaven come down to Earth as the Son of Man.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Philippians 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

Hebrews 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

I should just put you on ignore as well - as with various others on here; you're married to your errors; you continually assert anyone not in agreement with you is up to no good; and you continually assert your errors were not addressed with Scripture.

Rom. 5: 6-8, Jerry - in each our stead.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

He is referring to Who He is: the Son of God from Heaven come down to Earth as the Son of Man.

You make my point. The Lord Jesus came down to the earth as a Man. That means He was Man before He was born of Mary.

Congratulations!

You finally got something right.

 

[JudgeRightly]

You make my point. The Lord Jesus came down to the earth as a Man. That means He was Man before He was born of Mary.

Congratulations!

You finally got something right.

Jerry, what does "flesh" mean in the Bible?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jerry, what does "flesh" mean in the Bible?

Depends on how it is used. In many instances "flesh" is contrasted with the "Spirit."

In that case it is speaking of being self-centered and not God-centered.

In the following verse the subject is the actual "flesh" which is an integral part of our natural bodies:

"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption" (1 Cor.15:50).​

The flesh of our natural is subject to corruption so when the saints will be caught up to meet in the air they will exchange their natural body with a spiritual body (1 Cor.15:46), a body belonging to the spiritual sphere which is the eternal state.

Why do you ask?

 

[JudgeRightly]

Depends on how it is used. In many instances "flesh" is contrasted with the "Spirit."

In that case it is speaking of being self-centered and not God-centered.

In the following verse the subject is the actual "flesh" which is an integral part of our natural bodies:

"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption" (1 Cor.15:50).​

The flesh of our natural is subject to corruption so when the saints will be caught up to meet in the air they will exchange their natural body with a spiritual body (1 Cor.15:46), a body belonging to the spiritual sphere which is the eternal state.

Why do you ask?

Can flesh (again, in the Bible) be used to refer to man/mankind?

 

[Danoh]

You make my point. The Lord Jesus came down to the earth as a Man. That means He was Man before He was born of Mary.

Congratulations!

You finally got something right.

Nope, I did not say He came down to the earth as a Man.

That is your incompetence at work once more.

What I said was that Jesus is referring to Who He is: the Son of God from Heaven come down to Earth as the Son of Man.

Son of God from Heaven...

Come down to Earth as (in the form of) the Son of Man (sinful flesh).

Which is why I cited those passages - each of them affirms that He became the Son of Man.

But there is no reasoning with you.

Not only have you continually proven yourself incompetent at properly sorting out some of the simplest of issues, but married to your errors.

Amusing is what you are.

Rom. 5: 6-8.

 

[Tambora]

Jerry, I'm not sure why you're being so evasive over a simple question.

Here it is again:

So the first man was not Adam?

Scripture says the first man was Adam.

 

[Tambora]

Clear as a bell that Adam was the first man .

1 Corinthians 15:45-47 KJV
(45) And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
(46) Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
(47) The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Scripture says the first man was Adam.

Yes, and that is not to be taken literally unless you actually believe that the Lord Jesus was the "second man" (1 Cor.15:17).

Do you believe that He was the second man?