From all eternity exists the Father, the WORD and the HOLY Spirit.
The Father did not become flesh, the WORD did.
ECT The Same Yesterday, and Today, and For Ever
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
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From all eternity exists the Father, the WORD and the HOLY Spirit.
The Father did not become flesh, the WORD did.
God's Truth
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I will explain it to you with scripture and maybe you will admit that you are wrong.
Job 32:8 But it is the spirit in a person, the breath of the Almighty, that gives them understanding.
Job 33:4 "The Spirit of God has made me, And the breath of the Almighty gives me life.
Genesis 2:7 Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
Hebrews 12:9 Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of spirits and live!
Zechariah 12:1 A prophecy: The word of the LORD concerning Israel. The LORD, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the human spirit within a person, declares:
Malachi 2:15 Has not the one God made you? You belong to him in body and spirit. And what does the one God seek? Godly offspring. So be on your guard, and do not be unfaithful to the wife of your youth.
James 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
As one who considers carefully can see, there is a body and a spirit. The body is dead without the spirit. The body with the spirit is a living soul.
(Leviticus 26:11) (Leviticus 26:30) (Isaiah 42:1) (Zechariah 11:8) (Matthew 12:18) (Hebrews 10:38).
These scriptures speak of God having a soul…a soul is a body with a spirit. If these scriptures are not about Jesus, and if Jesus did not exist in a Spiritual body, then how God who lives in unapproachable light that no one has seen have a body?
God's Truth
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You think Jesus had a spirit before coming to earth...the Father another Spirit...and the Holy Spirit yet another Spirit?
God's Truth
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Jesus gave up the body he had in heaven and he came a a man of flesh that dies.
Spirit/Mind?
So then, you, as JR, say that Jesus was a Spirit, a different Spirit than the Father and a different Spirit than the Holy Spirit?
The Bible says that there is only one Spirit.
Amr says they are not all Spirit.
All you trinitarians here give different stories, and you all have a wrong one to tell.
You just contradicted yourself. You said permanent then you said temporary.
Jesus existed in heaven before coming to earth with the same body he has now.
Read this scripture. Jesus says to the Father to GLORIFY him in His presence with the glory he had with God before the world began.
John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
Read this scripture. This scripture Paul explains that our BODIES will be TRANSFORMED like Jesus’ GLORIOUS body.
Philippians 3:21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body
So then, we can see from these two scriptures that Jesus has a glorious body, one like we will have after the resurrection, the kind of body that Jesus has now, he also had with God before the world began.
Read this scripture. It tells us about what kind of body we will have at the resurrection. We will have bodies that do not decay.
Romans 8:21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
This scripture tells us more about the type of body we will have when we are resurrected.
1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
Please note it is a spiritual BODY and not just about our spirits.
God's Truth
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So Jesus was a body without a spirit? HAAAAAAA
God's Truth
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Jesus is the Word and that means he spoke the words of God the Father.
Steko, Jesus even says that the words he speaks are the Fathers. HAHAHAAAA
So you're not going to address the scriptures I gave you? Why should I then address the scriptures you give me?
But there is a spirit in man, And the breath of the Almighty gives him understanding. - Job 32:8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job32:8&version=NKJV
Nothing that contradicts that man is body AND soul AND spirit.
The Spirit of God has made me, And the breath of the Almighty gives me life. - Job 33:4 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job33:4&version=NKJV
Nothing that contradicts that man is body AND soul AND spirit.
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. - Genesis 2:7 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis2:7&version=NKJV
breath of life = spirit
living being, also used of other creatures other than humans. So do other "living beings" have spirits, GT? Can a dog communicate with God like man can? :mock:
Nothing that contradicts that man is body AND soul AND spirit.
Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? - Hebrews 12:9 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews12:9&version=NKJV
Which, by the way, if you're paying attention to context, tells us that discipline (ie, spanking) is good for the soul.
Nothing that contradicts that man is body AND soul AND spirit.
The burden of the word of the Lord against Israel. Thus says the Lord, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him: - Zechariah 12:1 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Zechariah12:1&version=NKJV
Nothing that contradicts that man is body AND soul AND spirit.
But did He not make them one, Having a remnant of the Spirit? And why one? He seeks godly offspring. Therefore take heed to your spirit, And let none deal treacherously with the wife of his youth. - Malachi 2:15 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Malachi2:15&version=NKJV
"remnant of the Spirit" (yes, capital S, meaning the Spirit of God)
Nothing that contradicts that man is body AND soul AND spirit.
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. - James 2:26 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James2:26&version=NKJV
Well, yeah, that fits with what Paul says, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
But again, Nothing there that contradicts that man is body AND soul AND spirit.
... And a soul.
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. - 1 Thessalonians 5:23 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Thessalonians5:23&version=NKJV
For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. - Hebrews 4:12 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews4:12&version=NKJV
Just as God is triune (1 Corinthians 13:14), so also is Man triune (Genesis 1:26).
Duh... :duh:
No, GT, the SOUL is different.
Yes, God has a soul, no argument there.
If that were true, then the Father and the Spirit would also have bodies. AND THEY DO NOT HAVE BODIES.
See my previous response.
Right Divider
Body part
Like the habitual liar that she is, she always LIES about the nature of the trinity doctrine and instead presents her straw-man to be rightly pummeled.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
No, you always have trouble believing the Scriptures, especially when they contradict your silly ideas.
The Lord Jesus tells us that he came down from heaven as the Son of Man but you reject the idea that He was telling us that He came down from heaven as a Man so therefore He was a Man before He was born of Mary.
You refuse to believe that the Lord Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
I think that it is a mistake to think that a flesh and blood body is essential to being a person. Men in their flesh and bodies cannot see the face of God (1 Tim.6:16) but as men we will see His face (Rev.22:4).
How can this be explained? In our flesh and blood bodies we are not equipped to see eternal things (2 Cor.4:18). But with our new bodies, our bodies from heaven, we will then be equipped to see things in the spiritual sphere. It is not that these eternal things, like a spiritual body, do not have substance. Instead, they belong to the spiritual realm. I am not saying that a spiritual body has no substance.
And I also believe that our new, spiritual body will be able to adapt to it's environment. That body will be transformed into an earthly body while on the earth and a spiritual body when in the eternal state.
I believe that the Lord Jesus received such a body and when He was raised up that body had supernatural qualities. After He was raised up he appeared to Mary and she didn't recognize Him (Jn.20:15-16).He was able just appear in a room while the door was closed (Jn.20:19).
So I am not saying that a spiritual body is a body like Casper but instead it is a body belonging to the spiritual sphere, the eternal state. While we now live in a creation with three dimensions (or four if you count "time") the eternal state could have many more. I believe that the new, spiritual bodies will have more substance and beauty than our natural bodies and will resemble the body of the Lord Jesus as He is in the eternal state now (Rev.1:13-16).
How can this be explained? In our flesh and blood bodies we are not equipped to see eternal things (2 Cor.4:18). But with our new bodies, our bodies from heaven, we will then be equipped to see things in the spiritual sphere. It is not that these eternal things, like a spiritual body, do not have substance. Instead, they belong to the spiritual realm. I am not saying that a spiritual body has no substance.
And I also believe that our new, spiritual body will be able to adapt to it's environment. That body will be transformed into an earthly body while on the earth and a spiritual body when in the eternal state.
I believe that the Lord Jesus received such a body and when He was raised up that body had supernatural qualities. After He was raised up he appeared to Mary and she didn't recognize Him (Jn.20:15-16).He was able just appear in a room while the door was closed (Jn.20:19).
So I am not saying that a spiritual body is a body like Casper but instead it is a body belonging to the spiritual sphere, the eternal state. While we now live in a creation with three dimensions (or four if you count "time") the eternal state could have many more. I believe that the new, spiritual bodies will have more substance and beauty than our natural bodies and will resemble the body of the Lord Jesus as He is in the eternal state now (Rev.1:13-16).
God's Truth
New member
Just because you are confused it does not mean I am not.
The context of that first passage you cited is the issue of their being assured that their holding steadfast is not in vain, because He is EVER faithful to His promises.
Hebrews 13:6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me. 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation. 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. 13:9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.
The meaning of that second passage you cited is even simpler to discern...
This "the man is become as one of us" refers to this "to know good and evil:".
No surprise there; for Scripture will OFTEN interpret what it meant by Its' use of one word or phrase - through a next word or phrase, in the SAME passage.
Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Yours is a basic mistake often found in the assertions of those who's assertions often reveal their having erroneously mixed together DIFFERENT meanings into one.
Acts 17: 11, 12
Rom. 5: 6-8.
God's Truth
New member
What have I changed? Please show me where I changed it. Show me what I used to say.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
He never changes:
"And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail" (Heb.1:10-12).
Perhaps you will tells us why anyone should believe that the Lord Jesus was not Man before He was born of Mary because He states in no uncertain terms that He came down to earth as Man:
"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of Man which is in heaven" (Jn.3;13).
If you will believe Him He said that no "man" has ascended up to heaven but the Man who came down from heaven. According to your view He couldn't have come down as Man.
Two questions, Jerry:
1: Who is the first man in the Bible?
2: Did the person Jesus Christ (aka The Word of God, aka The Son of God, aka God the Son) exist before that first man?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
It must be the Lord Jesus because He came down to earth as a man:
"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of Man which is in heaven" (Jn.3:13).
In the first part of the verse we can see that the subject is "man" and the subject remains the same throughout the verse. In fact, it would make no sense to say that no "man" has ascended up to heaven but the Son of God who came down from heaven.
That kind of exegisis lacks a logical consistency demanded by that verse.
So the first man was not Adam?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Was the Lord Jesus the second man?