The Sabbath is a What?

[Choleric]

Do you understand what Paul meant by "without the law" was not antinomianism?

1Co 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

You are making a false dichotomy. It is not antinoomianism as Paul addressed clearly and plainly when he was asked that very question. I have posted those verses already. He said "shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?" His answer was "God forbid".

But Paul was much more specific with regard to the law than you appear to be. He was confident we do not need any aspect of the law of moses or the ten commandments to obtain salvation in this dispensation:

Paul said we are justified from "all things" from which we could not be justified by "the law of moses"

Act 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Paul knew our salvation did not, in any way depend on keeping the commandments. That included all ten on the tablets of stone:

2Co 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
2Co 3:4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
2Co 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
2Co 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
2Co 3:12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
2Co 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
2Co 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
2Co 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Paul said it as plainly as it can be said. The ten commandments were:
1- engraven in stone
2- they were the letter that killeth
3- they are "done away"
4- they are the "ministration of condemnation"
5- they are "that which is done away"
6- they are "that which is abolished"
7- and yet for those attempting to be saved by them, "the veil is upon their heart"

Not in the sense that antinomianism holds. Consider again what Paul wrote:

1Co 13:2 ... though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not [love], I am nothing.

That does not say "how" one gets saved, or obtains the "righteousness which is by faith"

If one doesn't love God, one is not saved. If one doesn't love his brother, one doesn't love God. If one transgresses the ten commandments, one doesn't love his brother.

But you can't put the cart before the horse. You don't get saved by loving God. We are told "we love Him because He first loved us". We get saved by believing God.

Do you understand that love is evidence of believing the gospel, and that hate is evidence of not believing the gospel?

Yes, it is evidence. We are fruit inspectors but we cannot know if a person is saved, only God knows.

I've never claimed that anyone earns salvation, let alone that they earn it through law keeping. I was very clear about this to you, that no person is justified by the deeds of the law.

If I have mistakenly assigned a belief you do not hold, I apologize. You have claimed that we should keep the sabbath. Keeping the sabbath or not has nothing to do with Christianity.

When it is received, there is evidence. Someone who continues to murder shows evidence the righteousness of God was not received (1Jn 3:15).

Ok. but if a believer did murder, they would not lose their salvation. That is the point where the emphasis lies. Once saved, always saved.

You haven't shown how Acts 8:20-23 fits your doctrine. It's obvious that Simon was not saved from those verses. Carefully consider the wording of Peter's statement to him.

It is not obvious as Christians have been debating it for centuries. In my opinion, Simon was saved. We are told he believed and that is good enough for me. As far as what he was after:

Act 8:19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.

If you set aside the words of Jesus like that, I see little hope for you.

47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

If you set aside basic foundational principles of salvation by grace, and how it differs from salvation through keeping the law of moses, there is no hope you for.

Perhaps we are talking past each other, perhaps not. But the method of salvation for the church is not found in that passage.

We are saved by having the righteousness of GOd given to us as a free gift. It is a righteousness we did not create nor experience. It a righteousness we did not live or earn. It is Christs, and He gives it to us as a free gift.

 

[Lighthouse]

I posted God's own statements about how He deals with righteous, wickedness, and repentance.

And God can't possibly ever change his methods in how He deals with and relates to us, can He?

These are general principles that apply under the old covanant (which required animal sacrifice as a propitiation for sin) and under the new covenant (which requires the sacrifice of Jesus as the propitiation for sin).

And we're in the dispensation of the grace of God, which is completely separate from either of those, as those were specifically for Israel [including proselytes]. We are not Israel; we are the Body of Christ.

Murder is still wicked under both covenants, charitable giving to the poor is still righteous under both covenants.

There is no righteousness except that of God under either covenant, or any dispensation; and the only righteous any of us can have under any dispensation is that of God imputed to us.

But you are correct that murder is wicked at all times, for all people, under any dispensation.

And I also affirm that charitable giving, of various resources, to those truly in need is right under any dispensation.

The nature of wickedness and righteousness did not change with the new covenant, but the method and effectiveness of the propitiation for sin has changed.

That is what I'm saying.

 

[genuineoriginal]

And God can't possibly ever change his methods in how He deals with and relates to us, can He?

Sure He can. He is God Almighty, and can do what He wants.

He is also the King of Kings, and has a specific way of dealing with the decrees and statutes He establishes as King. This way is the same as the way of the Medes and Persians, who copied that way from Him.

Daniel 6:15 15 Then these men assembled unto the king, and said unto the king, Know, O king, that the law of the Medes and Persians is, That no decree nor statute which the king establisheth may be changed​

And we're in the dispensation of the grace of God, which is completely separate from either of those, as those were specifically for Israel [including proselytes]. We are not Israel; we are the Body of Christ.

The righteous will be treated as wicked when they turn from righteousness and do that which is wicked, and the wicked will be treated as righteous when they turn from wickedness and do that which is righteous.

Those principles were not cut into the covenant He made with the children of Israel, they were universal statements from God about how He works and apply across every covenant and to every person in every nation.

 

[jeremysdemo]

Paul knew our salvation did not, in any way depend on keeping the commandments. That included all ten on the tablets of stone:

2Co 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
2Co 3:4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
2Co 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
2Co 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
2Co 3:12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
2Co 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
2Co 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
2Co 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Paul said it as plainly as it can be said. The ten commandments were:
1- engraven in stone
2- they were the letter that killeth
3- they are "done away"
4- they are the "ministration of condemnation"
5- they are "that which is done away"
6- they are "that which is abolished"
7- and yet for those attempting to be saved by them, "the veil is upon their heart"

1. the glory of Moses countenance was fading away 2Co 3:7
2. tho they could not look at his face because of the glory of his countenance what remains is glorious 2Co 3:11
3. the Ten commandments remain, last time I checked they are still here.
4. again they could not look at Moses face whose glory was fading away 2Co 3:13
5. When the law of Moses is read, there is a veil for them 2Co 3:15, not so for those whom turn toward God 2Co 3:16.

Perhaps C is correct and ones salvation does not depend on keeping the commandments per se, but you don't have to do a total butcher job of what the text do say to prove it.


keep shinin

jerm

 

[Choleric]

1. the glory of Moses countenance was fading away 2Co 3:7
2. tho they could not look at his face because of the glory of his countenance what remains is glorious 2Co 3:11
3. the Ten commandments remain, last time I checked they are still here.

Never said they weren't. Just I am dead to them. And Paul said they are "done away". That doesn't need interpretation, only repeating.

4. again they could not look at Moses face whose glory was fading away 2Co 3:13
5. When the law of Moses is read, there is a veil for them 2Co 3:15, not so for those whom turn toward God 2Co 3:16.

Perhaps C is correct and ones salvation does not depend on keeping the commandments per se,

That is after all what we are explicitly told.

but you don't have to do a total butcher job of what the text do say to prove it.
:

I didn't interpret, I simply posted the passage. The fact that I post scripture, and make a short list repeating the scripture to draw attention to the flow of thought, and you call that "butchering" only goes to show the value you place on scripture, which is apparently second to you opinion.

Paul clearly said the law, engraved in stone is done away and abolished. You don't have to like it, but you are arguing with Paul, not me. Which is a position you are used to with Paul, isn't it :thumb:

 

[Choleric]

Originally Posted by genuineoriginal
Have you actually looked at your arguments to see what they lead to?

Your argument is this:

Keeping the commandments is dead works.

I have never said we should not live holy lives. I have simply said that attempting to be saved by keeping the law is dead works. Working to be saved is a dead working that will never save

You must repent of dead works in order to be saved.

You must repent of dead works which is attempting to save yourself through obedience and improving your own righteousness.

Therefore you must repent of keeping the commandments in order to be saved.

I am sure you see now why you are mistaken. Paul dealt with these same questions:

What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. -Romans 6:15

For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. -Galatians 5:13

As Christians we should live holy lives, but our hope for salvation is in God, not in our ability to be good enough for God to look favorably upon us and save us. That is how we can know we are saved right now, because our "hope is built on nothing less than Jesus' blood and righteousness". Our hope is not in our goodness but it is in Gods promise.

There is a better chance of the sun not rising in the morning than there is of me not going to heaven when I die. I can say that because I have the righteousness Paul talked about. It is not mine, but Christ's.

Christ was born in a manger, and lived a perfect life fulfilling all the law. He then died, was buried and raised to newness of life. He is now seated at the right hand of the Father.

When I was saved, I was baptized into Christ (1 Cor 12:13) and I am now a part of his body. I am imputed with His righteousness. It is as if I lived the life Christ did and He took on my sin.

For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. -2 Corinthians 5:21

Christs life on earth is complete. There is no way I can improve upon it and my failures cannot mar that righteousness. It was given to me as a gift and I accepted it by faith.

Just as Christ is seated at the right hand or the Father, I am seated at the right hand of the father. Just as death hath no more dominion over Christ, death has no more dominion over me.

Since I already died with Christ and raised anew, the law has no more dominion over me. When I sin, though God will chasten me, i am no longer judged with the world but as a son. The law is what convicts. Since I am dead to the law, it has no power to convict me.

I am in Christ and I am a new creature. I have passed from death to life as Christ did. I am sealed to the day of redemption and I Christ will never cast me out.

 

[jeremysdemo]

1. the glory of Moses countenance was fading away 2Co 3:7
2. tho they could not look at his face because of the glory of his countenance what remains is glorious 2Co 3:11
3. the Ten commandments remain, last time I checked they are still here.

Never said they weren't. Just I am dead to them. And Paul said they are "done away". That doesn't need interpretation, only repeating.

I just read the KJV, which says no such thing.

it clearly says without interpretation "the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away"

the Ten commandments are not Moses face.

2Co 3:13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away.

4. again they could not look at Moses face whose glory was fading away 2Co 3:13
5. When the law of Moses is read, there is a veil for them 2Co 3:15, not so for those whom turn toward God 2Co 3:16.

Perhaps C is correct and ones salvation does not depend on keeping the commandments per se,

That is after all what we are explicitly told.

we are told it is by grace through faith Ephesians 2:8, that does not require we butcher these saying of Paul to suite our own theological agendas.

I didn't interpret, I simply posted the passage. The fact that I post scripture, and make a short list repeating the scripture to draw attention to the flow of thought, and you call that "butchering" only goes to show the value you place on scripture, which is apparently second to you opinion.

I call it butchering because you take out "Moses countenance" and "glory" and replace the Ten commandments with it in your "points".

I value the scripture enough to keep the thoughts in their context.

would you like to go over them again?

Paul said it as plainly as it can be said. The ten commandments were:
1- engraven in stone
2- they were the letter that killeth
3- they are "done away"
4- they are the "ministration of condemnation"
5- they are "that which is done away"
6- they are "that which is abolished"
7- and yet for those attempting to be saved by them, "the veil is upon their heart"

can you do as I did and put the direct scriptural reference on these points?
the ones that say these thing explicitly? I doubt it, for one reason, they are not there.

Paul clearly said the law, engraved in stone is done away and abolished. You don't have to like it, but you are arguing with Paul, not me. Which is a position you are used to with Paul, isn't it :thumb:

He said the glory of Moses countenance is fading away, you want him to say what you are saying desperately, but wanting does not make it so.

Yes I am used to the position of correcting people who twist the words of Paul to their own destruction, 2 Peter 3:16.

what of it?

keep shinin

jerm

 

[genuineoriginal]

I have never said we should not live holy lives. I have simply said that attempting to be saved by keeping the law is dead works. Working to be saved is a dead working that will never save

Dead works are works of wickedness.
Obedience to God by keeping His commandments is not dead works but living faith.

You must repent of dead works which is attempting to save yourself through obedience and improving your own righteousness.

Obedience to God by keeping His commandments is not dead works as you keep claiming that it is.

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.​

1 John 5:2-3 3 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.​

I am sure you see now why you are mistaken. Paul dealt with these same questions:

What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. -Romans 6:15

So why don't you believe Paul instead of twisting his words to mean something else?

Romans 3:31 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.​

None of the rest of your arguments have any validity since you are attempting to make the law void instead of attempting to establish the law.

1 John 1:6 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:​

You keep claiming that you have fellowship with Christ, and keep claiming that fellowship with Christ allows you to walk in darkness with impunity.

 

[Choleric]

I just read the KJV, which says no such thing.

Are you smoking crack again?

it clearly says without interpretation "the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away"

Which has nothing to do with what I posted. Stop posting under the influence of crack.

the Ten commandments are not Moses face.

2Co 3:13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away.

seems I am the only one who knows that.

we are told it is by grace through faith Ephesians 2:8, that does not require we butcher these saying of Paul to suite our own theological agendas.

I call it butchering because you take out "Moses countenance" and "glory" and replace the Ten commandments with it in your "points".

Paul did that and I just repeated it.

I value the scripture enough to keep the thoughts in their context.

would you like to go over them again?

can you do as I did and put the direct scriptural reference on these points?
the ones that say these thing explicitly? I doubt it, for one reason, they are not there.

Have you ever read 2 Cor 3? Lets see how much you value the scripture after I repost the points for you again. I will add some detail:

Paul knew our salvation did not, in any way depend on keeping the commandments. That included all ten on the tablets of stone:

2Co 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

The subject is clearly "tables of stone". Surely you agree that is the ten commandments.

2Co 3:4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
2Co 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Pauls now compares the new testament which he is a minister of to the "letter that killeth". Clearly the subject is still in regard to the "tables of stone". If you doubt that, look at the next verse.

2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

Again, he uses the term "engraven in stones" referring clearly to the ten commandments. He then says those ten commandments that were written in stone were the "ministration of death". That is indisputable.

Moses face shown because of that glory from those engraven stones. Those are now "done away"

2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

Paul compares the new testament (the ministration of the spirit) and says it is more glorious.

2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

Paul again calls the ten commandments the "ministration of condemnation"

2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
2Co 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

We are again told that the ten commandments, the thing engraven in stone, is done away.

2Co 3:12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
2Co 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

Moses put a vail over his face. His face shown because of the glory of the thing engraven on stone which is now "abolished".

2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
2Co 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

Paul then compares the veil over moses' face to the veil over the heart of those that don't beleive the ten commandments "engraven in stone" is now "done away in Christ"

2Co 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

Paul then tells us the veil shall be taken away if they turn to the Lord.

2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Paul said it as plainly as it can be said. The ten commandments were:
1- engraven in stone (2 Cor 3:7) and tables of stone (2 Cor 3:3)
2- they were the "letter that killeth" (2 Cor 3:6)
3- they are "done away" (2 Cor 3:7)
4- they are the "ministration of death engraven in stone" (2 Cor 3:7)
5- they are the "ministration of condemnation" (2 Cor 3:9)
6- they are "that which is done away" (2 Cor 3:11)
7- they are "that which is abolished" (2 Cor 3:13)
8- and yet for those attempting to be saved by them, "the veil is upon their heart" (2 Cor 3:15)

He said the glory of Moses countenance is fading away, you want him to say what you are saying desperately, but wanting does not make it so.

I would love to see how you misintepret the above passage. I have made it pretty easy for you to understand. I understand there is a veil upon your heart as there is for genuineoriginal and you want to hold onto the law instead of rest in Christ. But the law is done away, abolished. Good luck!

 

[jeremysdemo]

one way to understand this is to look up the term ministration, it being the priesthood both the written and etched in stone commandments were ministered under 2Co 3:7, who's glory was passing away (with the new priesthood).

this is concurred with Hebrews 7:12.

The New Covenant has new Spirit promised priest John 15:26 , since the old ministration was passing, one according to Paul even more glorious than the previous 2Co 3:9

Paul describes the previous priesthood of his time as bringing death and condemnation with the law 2Co 3:7, 9,
(same as Jesus said) Matthew 23:13 but the priesthood of Jesus and his Apostles (Paul included) as being a ministry of righteousness and greater glory, 2Co 3:9 (concurred with the other Apostles Acts 11:18).

keep shinin

jerm

 

[Choleric]

one way to understand this is to look up the term ministration, it being the priesthood both the written and etched

Or you can believe what Paul said as he said it.

 

[jeremysdemo]

Are you smoking crack again?

Which has nothing to do with what I posted. Stop posting under the influence of crack.

I am sorry replying to my words caused you to produce such evil.

it was not my intention. :nono:

keep shinin

jerm

 

[Choleric]

I am sorry replying to my words caused you to produce such evil.

it was not my intention. :nono:

keep shinin

jerm

Don't be sorry. I am sarcastic by nature. I use the absurd to make a point. There is no emotion behind it. Just pure sarcasm.

 

[jeremysdemo]

Matthew 15:19-20
For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornication's, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
These are the things which defile a man:...

sarcasm need not include false witness.

plenty of people are able to use sarcasm without sinning.

in any event your sentences make no sense as irony or sarcasm,

Are you smoking crack again? sarcastic meaning-you have never smoked crack. ???

that would be sarcastic, the opposite meaning of what is said, what you said is just false witness nothing more, nothing less, since there is no opposite meaning that makes any sense.

Stop posting under the influence of crack. sarcastic meaning- Start posting under the influence of crack. ???


Again, I am sorry responding to me led you to this evil, you are forgiven but it would probably be best if you don't read or respond to my words until you are ready to do so without sin.

keep shinin

jerm

 

[Choleric]

Matthew 15:19-20
For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornication's, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
These are the things which defile a man:...

sarcasm need not include false witness.

plenty of people are able to use sarcasm without sinning.

in any event your sentences make no sense as irony or sarcasm,

Are you smoking crack again? sarcastic meaning-you have never smoked crack. ???

that would be sarcastic, the opposite meaning of what is said, what you said is just false witness nothing more, nothing less, since there is no opposite meaning that makes any sense.

Stop posting under the influence of crack. sarcastic meaning- Start posting under the influence of crack. ???


Again, I am sorry responding to me led you to this evil, you are forgiven but it would probably be best if you don't read or respond to my words until you are ready to do so without sin.

keep shinin

jerm

You're right. I should respond to you more biblically:

Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; -1 Timothy 4:1

Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. Hebrews 13:9

I would they were even cut off which trouble you. -Galatians 5:12

Have a good day :thumb:

 

[jeremysdemo]

it's about time. :BRAVO:

baby steps onto the boat...:surf:

I hope you stick with it! 1Co 15:58

one post down, the rest of your TOL career to go. :thumb:

(now that was sarcasm, with a little general encouragement mixed in)

see the irony is: you probably have done it before.

keep shinin

jerm

 

[Choleric]

Dead works are works of wickedness.
Obedience to God by keeping His commandments is not dead works but living faith.

You just made that up. I have shown you scriptures that shows you are wrong. You refuse to believe what you read. You are opposing yourself.

Obedience to God by keeping His commandments is not dead works as you keep claiming that it is.

I have shown you plainly the verses that say "not by world of the law" and "not by works of righteousness". You have substituted scripture with your theory with no verses to back it up.

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.​

1 John 5:2-3 3 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.​

None of that tells you how to be saved.

So why don't you believe Paul instead of twisting his words to mean something else?

Romans 3:31 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.​

Again, that verse does nothing to show we are still under the law. I have shown you over and over that the bible teaches we are dead to the law, free from the law etc. you are simply more interests in what you think the bible "should" say, rather than what it does say.

None of the rest of your arguments have any validity since you are attempting to make the law void instead of attempting to establish the law.

1 John 1:6 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:​

:rotfl: are you more interests in winning an argument than you are in believing the bible? I went verse by verse through 2 Cor 3 that shows plainly the law has passed, abolished and done away.

You keep claiming that you have fellowship with Christ, and keep claiming that fellowship with Christ allows you to walk in darkness with impunity.

You insist on lying. I have said no such thing. I have said over and over what the bible says: that if a Christian sins we "are chastened as sons" by our Father.

Again, you refuse to believe the bible.

 

[genuineoriginal]

You just made that up. I have shown you scriptures that shows you are wrong. You refuse to believe what you read. You are opposing yourself.

You have not. You did show me the verses you misinterpret, but they do not say what you claim they say, as I proved to you already.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Again, that verse does nothing to show we are still under the law.

Why do you think you must be under the law to keep the commandment that says, "do not bow down to idols"?

You claim that commandment has been done away with and that Christians like you can bow down to as many idols as you want because you are not under the law.

God gave the commandment, "do not bow down to idols".

If you break that commandment, you are no different than the children of disobedience that earned God's wrath by breaking His commandments.

Just like the children of disobedience, you will not enter the kingdom.

1 Corinthians 6:9 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,​

When you refuse to keep the commandments, you trade in the righteousness of Christ for the wickedness of this world, and will not be saved in the day of redemption.

 

[genuineoriginal]

are you more interests in winning an argument than you are in believing the bible? I went verse by verse through 2 Cor 3 that shows plainly the law has passed, abolished and done away.

And I have shown you plainly that you are wresting Paul's words to your own destruction.

That is understandable, since you have show that you failed to understand why God gave the Law.