The Sabbath is a What?

[Doormat]

Repentance to or from what? Do you even know? It is in the bible.

Acts 8:22-23 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.

What was Simon to repent from? Sin.

:rotfl: why do you refuse to believe God? He specifically says "repentance from dead works". That needs no interpretation.

What was Simon to repent from?

Try answering the question.

 

[Doormat]

If a person in Israel today covets will he suffer the wages of sin? Yes or no.

Are they, or are they not, in Christ?

Earlier in the thread you had no problem answering a question about Israel and know we are discussing the cut off Israel whose covenant you claim is "on hold." What is your answer.

And what does verse 11 say?

"And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God."

Some of them were adulterers in the past, but those people were no longer adulterers.

We who are in Christ are no longer; unrighteous, fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, homosexuals, sodomites, thieves, covetous, drunkards, revilers, or extortioners.

Proves my position. A person who is no longer an adulterer necessarily keeps the law against adultery. A person who violates the law against adultery is an adulterer and will not inherit the kingdom per Paul's words.

In Romans 7 Paul states that sin dwells in the flesh, so when sin occurs it occurs in the flesh; it does not occur in the spirit which is in Christ.

He states that he serves the law of God with his mind. Do you? If yes, how exactly?

Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

His flesh serves the law of sin by being dead, i.e. the dead old who was the sinner.

If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

All violations of ten commandments are willful. Paul is clearly not writing about willful sin; and therefore he not writing about the ten commandment. Furthermore, Paul specifically states he serve the law of God (ten commandments) in his mind. His flesh serves the law of sin and death through his belief that his body is dead in relation to the Mosaic ordinances that condemned his flesh.

It is only incest if it is his biological mother. It is not.

See Incest:

Incest is sexual intercourse between family members and close relatives.[1][2] The term may apply to sexual activities between individuals of close "blood relationship", members of the same household, step relatives related by adoption or marriage, or members of the same clan or lineage.[3]​

 

[genuineoriginal]

so repentance from works is repentance from sin? What planet are you from? Do you not understand basic English? Sin does not equal works.

The works you are to repent (in regard to salvation) are works of the law and good works (works of righteousness).

We are to repent from dead works (sin)

Ephesians 5:1-11 1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; 2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. 3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them. 8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: 9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth; ) 10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.​

And do works suitable for repentance

Acts 26:20 20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.​

 

[genuineoriginal]

Now, if you can show me a verse stating Noah was saved by faith and nothing else I will concede that point.

You are asking for something that the Bible does not state.
No one is saved by faith and nothing else.

James 2:14 14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?​

 

[Doormat]

You are asking for something that the Bible does not state.
No one is saved by faith and nothing else.

Made me think of this.

1Co 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
1Co 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

 

[Lighthouse]

Earlier in the thread you had no problem answering a question about Israel and know we are discussing the cut off Israel whose covenant you claim is "on hold." What is your answer.

They are cut off and their covenant is on hold, meaning they can come into Christ and be a part of the Body.

But if you're talking about those who reject Christ then the answer to this is the same as the one I gave regarding other unbelievers.

Some of them were adulterers in the past, but those people were no longer adulterers.

It seems that you get it, but I'm afraid that may be incorrect.

Proves my position. A person who is no longer an adulterer necessarily keeps the law against adultery. A person who violates the law against adultery is an adulterer and will not inherit the kingdom per Paul's words.

NO!

Paul's words here go along with His words in Romans 4, which state God does not impute our sin to us, because our lawless deeds forgiven and sins covered.

And they also go along with his words in Romans 6 that we are no longer slaves to sin and cannot live in it any longer.

Paul's words in 1 Cor. 6:11 are to show us that we should no longer identify with our sin, or as sinners, because we have been washed, sanctified and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

He states that he serves the law of God with his mind. Do you? If yes, how exactly?

Of course.

The answer as to how lies in the question you're avoiding: what is the law of God?

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
-Romans 8:2

Do you think it is the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus that brings wrath? [Romans 4:14-15]

His flesh serves the law of sin by being dead, i.e. the dead old who was the sinner.

I know this. I'm fairly certain I made the same point.

All violations of ten commandments are willful. Paul is clearly not writing about willful sin; and therefore he not writing about the ten commandment. Furthermore, Paul specifically states he serve the law of God (ten commandments) in his mind. His flesh serves the law of sin and death through his belief that his body is dead in relation to the Mosaic ordinances that condemned his flesh.

There is no such thing as sin that is not willful.lain: To argue otherwise is ignorance and an argument from silence.

Paul is speaking of doing that which he knows he should not do, and in his spiritual mind he does not want to do; but in his carnal mind he does, for the carnal mind is at enmity with God and not subject to the law of God which is spiritual mind serves. [Romans 8:7]

And, as I pointed out above, the ten commandments bring wrath; the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus sets us free from that wrath.

Do you honestly think the law of God is the former and not the latter?

See Incest:

Incest is sexual intercourse between family members and close relatives.[1][2] The term may apply to sexual activities between individuals of close "blood relationship", members of the same household, step relatives related by adoption or marriage, or members of the same clan or lineage.[3]​

Legally speaking it isn't classified as such.:nono:

 

[Lighthouse]

You are asking for something that the Bible does not state.
No one is saved by faith and nothing else.

James 2:14 14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?​

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.
-Ephesians 2:8-9

Say what?

 

[Doormat]

Legally speaking it isn't classified as such.:nono:

It is classified as such in Black's Law Dictionary, so you are mistaken.

 

[genuineoriginal]

And, as I pointed out above, the ten commandments bring wrath;

Does wrath come on the people that keep the ten commandments or the people that break the ten commandments?

 

[Lighthouse]

It is classified as such in Black's Law Dictionary, so you are mistaken.

Oh. well, never mind then.

No, wait, does God define it as incest if there is no blood relation?

Does wrath come on the people that keep the ten commandments or the people that break the ten commandments?

If they are under the Law then both [with the exception of Christ, who was born under the law, of course].

 

[genuineoriginal]

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.
-Ephesians 2:8-9

Word study time.

For by God looking favorably upon you, you are sure to be saved through steadfast faithfulness, and that not of yourself. It is God's korban, not by works, lest anyone should boast.

No one can save themselves. God alone saves those whom He looks favorably upon. It is God's korban (offering to God).

God is very picky about who will be saved.

Matthew 22:14 14 For many are called, but few are chosen.​

He only saves those that are counted worthy.

2 Thessalonians 1:11 11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:​

Those who God counts as worthy will enter the kingdom.

2 Thessalonians 1:5 5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:​

So, what does all this mean?
It means that anyone who continues to do the things that the children of disobedience did to earn God's wrath will not be counted worthy of being part of God's kingdom.

No one can get work their way into the kingdom of God, but the Bible tells us the ways of getting God to look favorably upon us and the ways of earning God's wrath.

Say what?

What.

 

[Doormat]

There is no such thing as sin that is not willful.lain: To argue otherwise is ignorance and an argument from silence.

You are mistaken.

Leviticus 4:2 “Speak to the sons of Israel, saying, ‘If a person sins unintentionally in any of the things which the Lord has commanded not to be done, and commits any of them,

Leviticus 4:22 ‘When a leader sins and unintentionally does any one of all the things which the Lord his God has commanded not to be done, and he becomes guilty,

Leviticus 4:27 ‘Now if anyone of the common people sin unintentionally in doing any of the things which the Lord has commanded not to be done, and becomes guilty,

Leviticus 5:15 “If a person acts unfaithfully and sins unintentionally against the Lord’s holy things, then he shall bring his guilt offering to the Lord: a ram without defect from the flock, according to your valuation in silver by shekels, in terms of the shekel of the sanctuary, for a guilt offering.

Leviticus 5:18 He is then to bring to the priest a ram without defect from the flock, according to your valuation, for a guilt offering. So the priest shall make atonement for him concerning his error in which he sinned unintentionally and did not know it, and it will be forgiven him.

Numbers 15:24 then it shall be, if it is done unintentionally, without the knowledge of the congregation, that all the congregation shall offer one bull for a burnt offering, as a soothing aroma to the Lord, with its grain offering and its drink offering, according to the ordinance, and one male goat for a sin offering.

Numbers 15:27 ‘Also if one person sins unintentionally, then he shall offer a one year old female goat for a sin offering.

Numbers 15:28 The priest shall make atonement before the Lord for the person who goes astray when he sins unintentionally, making atonement for him that he may be forgiven.

Leviticus 15:30 'The priest shall offer the one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. So the priest shall make atonement on her behalf before the LORD because of her impure discharge.'

Leviticus 5:2 Or if a soul touch any unclean thing, whether it be a carcase of an unclean beast, or a carcase of unclean cattle, or the carcase of unclean creeping things, and if it be hidden from him; he also shall be unclean, and guilty.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Oh. well, never mind then.

No, wait, does God define it as incest if there is no blood relation?

He says it is the same as incest with a blood relative.

Leviticus 18:7-8 7 The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness. 8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.​

Does wrath come on the people that keep the ten commandments or the people that break the ten commandments?

If they are under the Law then both

The scriptures say something else.

Exodus 20:6 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.​

1 John 3:22 22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight​

Revelation 14:12 12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.​

 

[Lighthouse]

No one can save themselves.

No way!:jawdrop:

I had no idea!

God is very picky about who will be saved.

Matthew 22:14 14 For many are called, but few are chosen.​

He only saves those that are counted worthy.

2 Thessalonians 1:11 11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:​

Those who God counts as worthy will enter the kingdom.

2 Thessalonians 1:5 5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:​

So, what does all this mean?
It means that anyone who continues to do the things that the children of disobedience did to earn God's wrath will not be counted worthy of being part of God's kingdom.

No one can get work their way into the kingdom of God, but the Bible tells us the ways of getting God to look favorably upon us and the ways of earning God's wrath.

Wait, so we can't work to earn salvation but we can work to earn the opposite?

Also, how does your "word study" refute my argument that said verses state we are saved by grace through faith and nothing else?

You are mistaken.

Leviticus 4:2 “Speak to the sons of Israel, saying, ‘If a person sins unintentionally in any of the things which the Lord has commanded not to be done, and commits any of them,

Leviticus 4:22 ‘When a leader sins and unintentionally does any one of all the things which the Lord his God has commanded not to be done, and he becomes guilty,

Leviticus 4:27 ‘Now if anyone of the common people sin unintentionally in doing any of the things which the Lord has commanded not to be done, and becomes guilty,

Leviticus 5:15 “If a person acts unfaithfully and sins unintentionally against the Lord’s holy things, then he shall bring his guilt offering to the Lord: a ram without defect from the flock, according to your valuation in silver by shekels, in terms of the shekel of the sanctuary, for a guilt offering.

Leviticus 5:18 He is then to bring to the priest a ram without defect from the flock, according to your valuation, for a guilt offering. So the priest shall make atonement for him concerning his error in which he sinned unintentionally and did not know it, and it will be forgiven him.

Numbers 15:24 then it shall be, if it is done unintentionally, without the knowledge of the congregation, that all the congregation shall offer one bull for a burnt offering, as a soothing aroma to the Lord, with its grain offering and its drink offering, according to the ordinance, and one male goat for a sin offering.

Numbers 15:27 ‘Also if one person sins unintentionally, then he shall offer a one year old female goat for a sin offering.

Numbers 15:28 The priest shall make atonement before the Lord for the person who goes astray when he sins unintentionally, making atonement for him that he may be forgiven.

Leviticus 15:30 'The priest shall offer the one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. So the priest shall make atonement on her behalf before the LORD because of her impure discharge.'

Leviticus 5:2 Or if a soul touch any unclean thing, whether it be a carcase of an unclean beast, or a carcase of unclean cattle, or the carcase of unclean creeping things, and if it be hidden from him; he also shall be unclean, and guilty.

How does one who knows the commandments of God sin unintentionally?

And how can one who is not under the Law sin inadvertently?

The Hebrew word for "sin unintentionally" means to sin without knowing you have done so; to be ignorant that you have sinned.

Do you honestly think Paul was speaking of sins committed in ignorance in Romans 7?

 

[genuineoriginal]

Wait, so we can't work to earn salvation but we can work to earn the opposite?

Yes. We can have our past sins covered by the blood of Jesus.

Romans 3:25 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;​

We can commit new sins and work ourselves into God's wrath.

Hebrews 10:26-27 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.​

Also, how does your "word study" refute my argument that said verses state we are saved by grace through faith and nothing else?

The verse states that we are saved by God because He looks favorably upon us when we show Him our steadfast faithfulness.
Steadfast faithfulness is not nothing else, it is the very thing God is looking for in us.
The verse states that we are not saved by our own efforts. We cannot make God save us, even through steadfast faithfulness. Saving us is God's choice alone.

 

[Lighthouse]

Yes. We can have our past sins covered by the blood of Jesus.

Romans 3:25 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;​

We can commit new sins and work ourselves into God's wrath.

Hebrews 10:26-27 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.​

The verse states that we are saved by God because He looks favorably upon us when we show Him our steadfast faithfulness.
Steadfast faithfulness is not nothing else, it is the very thing God is looking for in us.
The verse states that we are not saved by our own efforts. We cannot make God save us, even through steadfast faithfulness. Saving us is God's choice alone.

First off, you need to learn the things that differ, and why they differ.

Secondly, I never said faith [steadfast faithfulness] was nothing else; it was the main focus, i.e. nothing other than faith, or rather grace through faith. So, we are saved by grace through steadfast faithfulness and nothing else. At least I think that is a phrasing you can understand.

But since grace plays a huge part and our own faithfulness is anything but steadfast I cannot believe our salvation dependent upon the waxing and waning of said faith.

But the faith of the Son of God on the other hand...

 

[genuineoriginal]

Secondly, I never said faith [steadfast faithfulness] was nothing else; it was the main focus, i.e. nothing other than faith, or rather grace through faith. So, we are saved by grace through steadfast faithfulness and nothing else. At least I think that is a phrasing you can understand.

Fair enough :e4e:

But since grace plays a huge part and our own faithfulness is anything but steadfast I cannot believe our salvation dependent upon the waxing and waning of said faith.

What does the scripture say about it?

Ezekiel 18:21-24,26-28 21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. 23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live? 24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die. 26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die. 27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive. 28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.​

 

[Choleric]

We are to repent from dead works (sin)

Ephesians 5:1-11 1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; 2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. 3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them. 8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: 9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth; ) 10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.​

And do works suitable for repentance

Acts 26:20 20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.​

I have never said the concept or teaching of repentance from sin wasn't in the bible. What I have said is that repentance from sin is not the gospel. Trying to be saved by repenting of sin is a works based gospel. Christ died for us while we were yet sinners. Christ died for the ungodly, Christ died for sinners.

You both keep quoting verses out of context. Christians are called to live holy lives. I have never disputed that. What I have shown you is that salvation is repenting of dead works. I also showed you that it means to stop trying to be saved by works of the law or works of righteousness.

Christians should stop sinning, but it has no bearing on salvation, just our walk with God. God chastens us as sons and if we confess out sins he is faithful to forgive and stop the chastisement.

The Jew was told over and over not to sin. That again has nothing to do with the gospel of grace.

 

[Choleric]

What was Simon to repent from?

Try answering the question.

He was to repent of his sin. Like all Christians, we are to live holy lives.

But I have already thoroughly demonstrated to anyone paying attention that "repentance from dead works" is the repentance that saves.

Trying to stop sinning so God will save you is a dead work.

It is not works of righteousness or works of the law that save.

You continue to ignore my post And come back demanding i answer your questions as if they prove anything and you have refused to deal with the substance of the Scripture I have shown you. It's like the idiot on the street that says "can God make a rock so big He can't pick it up?" It is ignoring all the bible evidence I have shown you

Deuteronomy 6 shows keeping the law is our righteousness and Paul said he didn't want to be judged on his righteousness. I fully explained this using the bible a couple posts back. I am on my phone so I can't do it again. Just look back and I demonstrate this fully, not using logic but scripture.

Not by works of the law, not by works of righteousness, but by grace, a free gift, imputed (not imparted) to all those who believe.

 

[genuineoriginal]

I have never said the concept or teaching of repentance from sin wasn't in the bible. What I have said is that repentance from sin is not the gospel. Trying to be saved by repenting of sin is a works based gospel. Christ died for us while we were yet sinners. Christ died for the ungodly, Christ died for sinners.

You both keep quoting verses out of context. Christians are called to live holy lives. I have never disputed that. What I have shown you is that salvation is repenting of dead works. I also showed you that it means to stop trying to be saved by works of the law or works of righteousness.

And I have shown you that dead works are the works of darkness (sin) that brought God's wrath on the children of disobedience (Ephesians 5:1-11).
No one that continues to do those things will enter the kingdom.

Christians should stop sinning,

You are talking yourself in circles.
Define sinning.

1 John 3:4 4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.​