1 Cor 15:3 That's a MAD verse. Do you believe in MAD Doctrine.
The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !
- Thread starter beloved57
- Start date
beloved57
Well-known member
beloved57
Well-known member
Who are the every man of Heb 2:9 ?
Heb 2:9
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Now the teachers of error would feigningly tell us that this verse means all individuals, world wide without exception of all mankind, but thats not what the text states or means contextually. Now first of all the word man is not in the original:
τὸν δὲ βραχύ τι παρ᾽ ἀγγέλους ἠλαττωμένον βλέπομεν Ἰησοῦν διὰ τὸ πάθημα τοῦ θανάτου δόξῃ καὶ τιμῇ ἐστεφανωμένον ὅπως χάριτι θεοῦ ὑπὲρ παντὸς γεύσηται θανάτου
The word man was added by the translators, so it really states that He tasted death for pas which may mean:
I.
individually
A.
each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
II.
collectively
A.
some of all types
Its meaning can be that of all of a collective type or the whole of them. As you can see it can even mean some !
When we condsider the word collectively we mean :
a collective body; aggregate. of or characteristic of a group of individuals taken together:
Say for instance all the Sheep of Christ collectively, after all later in the same letter it is written that Christ, after dying or tasting death, that this happened Heb 13:20
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
He rose from the tasting of death Heb 2:9, the Great Shepherd of the Sheep !
So therefore it is contextually appropriate to understand the pas of Heb 2:9 as Christ's Sheep, He tested Death for every one of His Sheep ! Jn 10:11-16
I submit that the very man in Heb 2:9 means all or everyone of His Sheep !
Heb 2:9
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Now the teachers of error would feigningly tell us that this verse means all individuals, world wide without exception of all mankind, but thats not what the text states or means contextually. Now first of all the word man is not in the original:
τὸν δὲ βραχύ τι παρ᾽ ἀγγέλους ἠλαττωμένον βλέπομεν Ἰησοῦν διὰ τὸ πάθημα τοῦ θανάτου δόξῃ καὶ τιμῇ ἐστεφανωμένον ὅπως χάριτι θεοῦ ὑπὲρ παντὸς γεύσηται θανάτου
The word man was added by the translators, so it really states that He tasted death for pas which may mean:
I.
individually
A.
each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
II.
collectively
A.
some of all types
Its meaning can be that of all of a collective type or the whole of them. As you can see it can even mean some !
When we condsider the word collectively we mean :
a collective body; aggregate. of or characteristic of a group of individuals taken together:
Say for instance all the Sheep of Christ collectively, after all later in the same letter it is written that Christ, after dying or tasting death, that this happened Heb 13:20
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
He rose from the tasting of death Heb 2:9, the Great Shepherd of the Sheep !
So therefore it is contextually appropriate to understand the pas of Heb 2:9 as Christ's Sheep, He tested Death for every one of His Sheep ! Jn 10:11-16
I submit that the very man in Heb 2:9 means all or everyone of His Sheep !
Last edited:
beloved57
Well-known member
Who are the every man of Heb 2:9 ? 2
Let us continue to look at this verse Heb 2:9 to determine who the all or every are, due to the context, we have looked at it to mean every sheep of His because of Heb 13:20
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
Now since He was brought from the dead [after tasting death Heb 2:9] as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep, then its quite reasonable to conclude that is whom He tasted death for in Heb 2:9 which is collaborated from other scripture Jn 10:11,15 !
But lets again examine the context of the Book of Hebrews when it reads thusly Heb 9:28
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
The phrase " offered to bear the sins of many" is equivalent to tasting death Heb 2:9, so since here in Heb 9:28 the tasting of death is for the many, hence its quite reasonable to conclude that the every man in Heb 2:9 are the Many, or simply He tasted death for all of the many !
The many here in Heb 9:28 is actually the many ' To Pollon "
οὕτως ὁ Χριστός ἅπαξ προσενεχθεὶς εἰς τὸ πολλῶν ἀνενεγκεῖν ἁμαρτίας ἐκ δευτέρου χωρὶς ἁμαρτίας ὀφθήσεται τοῖς αὐτὸν ἀπεκδεχομένοις εἰς σωτηρίαν
The definite article is present to specifiy a definite group that constitutes the many, which opposes all without exception. The word does however denote a great number that do constitute the many, such as Rev 7:9
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
The same no doubt as those of Rev 5:9
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
So the every man in Heb 2:9 is simply all or everone of the Many, for once again the word pas means most definitely :
II.collectively
A.
some of all types
So all the many out of all types of kindred, tongue and people and nations ! Yet that does not mean everyone without exception !
Let us continue to look at this verse Heb 2:9 to determine who the all or every are, due to the context, we have looked at it to mean every sheep of His because of Heb 13:20
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
Now since He was brought from the dead [after tasting death Heb 2:9] as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep, then its quite reasonable to conclude that is whom He tasted death for in Heb 2:9 which is collaborated from other scripture Jn 10:11,15 !
But lets again examine the context of the Book of Hebrews when it reads thusly Heb 9:28
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
The phrase " offered to bear the sins of many" is equivalent to tasting death Heb 2:9, so since here in Heb 9:28 the tasting of death is for the many, hence its quite reasonable to conclude that the every man in Heb 2:9 are the Many, or simply He tasted death for all of the many !
The many here in Heb 9:28 is actually the many ' To Pollon "
οὕτως ὁ Χριστός ἅπαξ προσενεχθεὶς εἰς τὸ πολλῶν ἀνενεγκεῖν ἁμαρτίας ἐκ δευτέρου χωρὶς ἁμαρτίας ὀφθήσεται τοῖς αὐτὸν ἀπεκδεχομένοις εἰς σωτηρίαν
The definite article is present to specifiy a definite group that constitutes the many, which opposes all without exception. The word does however denote a great number that do constitute the many, such as Rev 7:9
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
The same no doubt as those of Rev 5:9
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
So the every man in Heb 2:9 is simply all or everone of the Many, for once again the word pas means most definitely :
II.collectively
A.
some of all types
So all the many out of all types of kindred, tongue and people and nations ! Yet that does not mean everyone without exception !
Last edited:
beloved57
Well-known member
He is the Saviour of the Body ! 1
Eph 5:23
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
The Body here is the Church, as He is the Saviour of His Church, He is the Saviour of His Body, of which He is also the Head of ! Now as Head of Body, after having been delivered to death because of its sins, it is stated here this Eph 1:20
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he[God] raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
And Vs 19 says that this [raising from the dead] was done according to working of His Mighty Power, which Power was wrought in Christ
Christ who is the Head Eph 4:15
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ
Eph 5:23
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Eph 5:23
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
The Body here is the Church, as He is the Saviour of His Church, He is the Saviour of His Body, of which He is also the Head of ! Now as Head of Body, after having been delivered to death because of its sins, it is stated here this Eph 1:20
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he[God] raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
And Vs 19 says that this [raising from the dead] was done according to working of His Mighty Power, which Power was wrought in Christ
Christ who is the Head Eph 4:15
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ
Eph 5:23
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Last edited:
Calvinistic malarkey! :doh:
beloved57
Well-known member
He is the Saviour of the Body ! 2
Now the fact is this, there is no such thing in God's Purpose of Christ, wherein He is not the Head of A Body, whenever there has been a Christ, there has been in Union with Him His Body, the Church, the possibility of a Christ without a Body does not exist, for He was before all things in that Capacity as Head Col 1:15-19
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
Therefore because the Head was raised from the dead by God's Mighty Power, this same Mighty Power is exerted in His Body, for the Body has a residual effect and must participate in the Power that raised up its Head ! As by this Power, the Head of the Body overcame the World, Sin, the Devil and Death, and so it is incumbent upon every member of His Body to overcome the World, Sin the devil and death as evidence of the Victory of their Head, as well as every Memebr of the Body must be caused to believe according to the working of that same Mighty Power Eph 1:19-20
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Thats how and why they believe, to evidence the Mighty Power that raised up their Head from the dead after He had been delivered to death on behalf of their sins, and consequently He is the Saviour of the Body !
Now the fact is this, there is no such thing in God's Purpose of Christ, wherein He is not the Head of A Body, whenever there has been a Christ, there has been in Union with Him His Body, the Church, the possibility of a Christ without a Body does not exist, for He was before all things in that Capacity as Head Col 1:15-19
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
Therefore because the Head was raised from the dead by God's Mighty Power, this same Mighty Power is exerted in His Body, for the Body has a residual effect and must participate in the Power that raised up its Head ! As by this Power, the Head of the Body overcame the World, Sin, the Devil and Death, and so it is incumbent upon every member of His Body to overcome the World, Sin the devil and death as evidence of the Victory of their Head, as well as every Memebr of the Body must be caused to believe according to the working of that same Mighty Power Eph 1:19-20
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Thats how and why they believe, to evidence the Mighty Power that raised up their Head from the dead after He had been delivered to death on behalf of their sins, and consequently He is the Saviour of the Body !
Last edited:
TIPlatypus
New member
John 3:15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”
There is no scripture saying exactly what you asked. However this one clearly shows that anyone can come into Christ's church. Anyone can believe in him. Christ died for everyone but not everyone will be saved. Only those who accept his mercy. Right?
There is no scripture saying exactly what you asked. However this one clearly shows that anyone can come into Christ's church. Anyone can believe in him. Christ died for everyone but not everyone will be saved. Only those who accept his mercy. Right?
beloved57
Well-known member
Now do you understand posts 814 and 817 they go together ?
TIPlatypus,
re: "John 3:15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.” "...this one clearly shows that anyone...can believe in him."
Actually, it doesn't. It only says that if someone believes, that they may have eternal life. It doesn't say that everyone can believe. Beliefs cannot be consciously chosen
re: "John 3:15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.” "...this one clearly shows that anyone...can believe in him."
Actually, it doesn't. It only says that if someone believes, that they may have eternal life. It doesn't say that everyone can believe. Beliefs cannot be consciously chosen
beloved57
Well-known member
I never seen a scripture that says anyone can believe in Him, jn fact I know one scripture that says some cannot believe on Him John 12:39 !
journey
New member
How many threads and/or forums do you have that " Beliefs cannot be consciously chosen" NONSENSE? Beliefs are ALWAYS formed when the person is conscious.
John 3:15 KJV That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
That would be ANYONE.
Nanja
Well-known member
That is, anyone whom God has chosen Eph 1:4, 11 / appointed to Salvation Acts. 13:48.
For one who is in a lost state, the Gospel is hid from them that they believe not 2 Cor 4:3-4,
so how could that be anyone that would believe on Him?
First, they must be saved out of that lost state by being Born of the Spirit, a.k.a. the New Birth;
that is the faith Eph. 2:8 that pleases God Heb. 11:6. Anything anyone may do while still in the flesh,
can never please God Rom. 8:7-8.
Salvation is Promised to only one People: His People Mat. 1:21, Israel Is. 45:17.
~~~~~
Salvation theology and atonement was unknown in the first century. It was developed by Anselm of Canterbury and John Calvin a thousand years after the crucifixion.
There are many instances in the New Testament that plainly show that Jesus offered and granted salvation to people long before he was crucified and died on the cross.
Salvation has to do with this life, not in any imagined world to come. As far as Jesus was concerned, Heaven was in good shape; it's here on earth where the problems are.
Remember? On EARTH "as it is in Heaven."
There are many instances in the New Testament that plainly show that Jesus offered and granted salvation to people long before he was crucified and died on the cross.
Salvation has to do with this life, not in any imagined world to come. As far as Jesus was concerned, Heaven was in good shape; it's here on earth where the problems are.
Remember? On EARTH "as it is in Heaven."
beloved57
Well-known member
Invalid comments !
beloved57
Well-known member
Thats God's Will for you to do, nevertheless, The Calvinist Doctrine of TULIP is God's Gospel, so thats what you really ignore ! See you at the Judgment !
beloved57
Well-known member
He died for them that shall believe on Him !
Another way of determining exactly for whom Christ died, is understanding whom it was He prayed for ! If we remember, He frankly states that He does not pray for the world at large Jn 17:9
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
And later He states thise Jn 17:20
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Thats because those that shall believe on Him through their word, would be His Sheep that He died for Jn 10:15-16
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Remember in Jn 17:9 He mentions those given Him !
Well the same is said of His Sheep Jn 10:27-29
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
The word gave here is the same word given in Jn 17:9 the greek word didōmi :
I.to give
II.to give something to someone
A.of one's own accord to give one something, to his advantage
i.to bestow a gift
B.to grant, give to one asking, let have
C.to supply, furnish, necessary things
D.to give over, deliver
i.to reach out, extend, present
ii.of a writing
iii.to give over to one's care, intrust, commit
and those who never believe on Him, they were not His Sheep given Him Jn 10:26
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
As such He never died for them, nor did He ever pray/intercede for them Jn 17:9
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
Christ died for only Believers !
Another way of determining exactly for whom Christ died, is understanding whom it was He prayed for ! If we remember, He frankly states that He does not pray for the world at large Jn 17:9
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
And later He states thise Jn 17:20
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Thats because those that shall believe on Him through their word, would be His Sheep that He died for Jn 10:15-16
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Remember in Jn 17:9 He mentions those given Him !
Well the same is said of His Sheep Jn 10:27-29
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
The word gave here is the same word given in Jn 17:9 the greek word didōmi :
I.to give
II.to give something to someone
A.of one's own accord to give one something, to his advantage
i.to bestow a gift
B.to grant, give to one asking, let have
C.to supply, furnish, necessary things
D.to give over, deliver
i.to reach out, extend, present
ii.of a writing
iii.to give over to one's care, intrust, commit
and those who never believe on Him, they were not His Sheep given Him Jn 10:26
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
As such He never died for them, nor did He ever pray/intercede for them Jn 17:9
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
Christ died for only Believers !
Last edited: