The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !
- Thread starter beloved57
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beloved57
Well-known member
Where does this say that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception ?
Its apparent you dont believe or understand that verse !
beloved57
Well-known member
Christ as a Mediator !
Christ as a Mediator ! 1 Tim 2:5
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Heb 12:24
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
Mediator for Christ is an Administrative appellative which has to do with Christ transacting the affairs of Salvation between God and man, His chosen people . His mediating has to do with the Salvation of men, men of the covenant or children of the covenant Acts 3:25
Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
Therefore He is the Mediator of the New Covenant Heb 12:24
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
Heb 8:6
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Now understand something, His Mediator office in 1 Tim 2:5
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
It is exactly the same as in Heb 12:24; 8:6, and so the all men concerned are the same, The Children of the Covenant Acts 3:25, the House of Israel and Judah Heb 8:6-8 ;
And it is God's will for them to be saved and to come into the Knowledge of the Truth 1 Tim 2:4-6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all[The children of the covenant Acts 3:25], to be testified in due time.
They do receive the Knowledge of the Truth through the Mediator of the Covenant as Per Heb 8:11
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
They will know Him savingly, acknowledging the Truth Titus 1:1
Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
They through His Mediatorship receive a Saving Knowledge of the Truth, which is the proposal of action in 1 Tim 2:4
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
And this Knowledge of the Truth is interrelated with the Knowledge of Knowing Him in Heb 8:11
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me[Savingly], from the least to the greatest.
Christ as a Mediator ! 1 Tim 2:5
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Heb 12:24
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
Mediator for Christ is an Administrative appellative which has to do with Christ transacting the affairs of Salvation between God and man, His chosen people . His mediating has to do with the Salvation of men, men of the covenant or children of the covenant Acts 3:25
Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
Therefore He is the Mediator of the New Covenant Heb 12:24
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
Heb 8:6
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Now understand something, His Mediator office in 1 Tim 2:5
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
It is exactly the same as in Heb 12:24; 8:6, and so the all men concerned are the same, The Children of the Covenant Acts 3:25, the House of Israel and Judah Heb 8:6-8 ;
And it is God's will for them to be saved and to come into the Knowledge of the Truth 1 Tim 2:4-6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all[The children of the covenant Acts 3:25], to be testified in due time.
They do receive the Knowledge of the Truth through the Mediator of the Covenant as Per Heb 8:11
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
They will know Him savingly, acknowledging the Truth Titus 1:1
Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
They through His Mediatorship receive a Saving Knowledge of the Truth, which is the proposal of action in 1 Tim 2:4
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
And this Knowledge of the Truth is interrelated with the Knowledge of Knowing Him in Heb 8:11
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me[Savingly], from the least to the greatest.
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beloved57
Well-known member
Christ as a Mediator ! 2
When speaking of Christ as an Mediator, its an different aspect of His Being than in His Essential Deity as the Word of God which is God Jn 1:1, We have a Triune God , Father , Word/ Son, and Holy Ghost; Now in this Godhead Trinity He is Essentially God as is the Father and the Holy Ghost, He therein is Original, Eternal, and Underived in any sense of the word, but as Mediator and Son of God, He is not Essentially God, and the Power He has, He has been invested with, He has Essential and underived Power as the Word of God Ps 33:6; And a Mediatoral Power which is given Him as an grant from the Father Matt 28:18; Jn 17:2; As Mediator Son of God Power is given Him, as the Essential Word of God, all Power is His Inherently, and not given, but Essentially His as its is of the Father and the Spirit !
When speaking of Christ as an Mediator, its an different aspect of His Being than in His Essential Deity as the Word of God which is God Jn 1:1, We have a Triune God , Father , Word/ Son, and Holy Ghost; Now in this Godhead Trinity He is Essentially God as is the Father and the Holy Ghost, He therein is Original, Eternal, and Underived in any sense of the word, but as Mediator and Son of God, He is not Essentially God, and the Power He has, He has been invested with, He has Essential and underived Power as the Word of God Ps 33:6; And a Mediatoral Power which is given Him as an grant from the Father Matt 28:18; Jn 17:2; As Mediator Son of God Power is given Him, as the Essential Word of God, all Power is His Inherently, and not given, but Essentially His as its is of the Father and the Spirit !
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beloved57
Well-known member
All shall be saved by His Life, whom He died for !
We know that Christ did not die for all without exception by what is taught by Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
This verse ensures that all whom were reconciled to God by Christ's death, even while they are being enemies/unbelievers, being therefore reconciled, they shall be , not maybe, but shall be saved by His Life !
No, their being God's enenemies/unbelievers shall not prevent them from being saved by His Life ! The primary reason for this is the fact that His Life, is also their Life ! Thats right, He did not rise to life as a private person, but as the Head and Shepherd of the Sheep Heb 13:20
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
The Shepherd and Sheep share one Life, like as a Husband and Wife !
Thats why Paul wrote Col 3:4
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
So, His Life in Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
It is really, Our Life, and that Life because its theirs as well as His, must be communicated to them 1 Cor 15:45
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
As Adam's life and death was theirs, so likewise Christ's[The Last Adam] Life, Death, and Life again is theirs ! And they shall all be saved by that Life, which we know all without exception shall not be !
We know that Christ did not die for all without exception by what is taught by Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
This verse ensures that all whom were reconciled to God by Christ's death, even while they are being enemies/unbelievers, being therefore reconciled, they shall be , not maybe, but shall be saved by His Life !
No, their being God's enenemies/unbelievers shall not prevent them from being saved by His Life ! The primary reason for this is the fact that His Life, is also their Life ! Thats right, He did not rise to life as a private person, but as the Head and Shepherd of the Sheep Heb 13:20
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
The Shepherd and Sheep share one Life, like as a Husband and Wife !
Thats why Paul wrote Col 3:4
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
So, His Life in Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
It is really, Our Life, and that Life because its theirs as well as His, must be communicated to them 1 Cor 15:45
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
As Adam's life and death was theirs, so likewise Christ's[The Last Adam] Life, Death, and Life again is theirs ! And they shall all be saved by that Life, which we know all without exception shall not be !
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Nanja
Well-known member
beloved
Gal. 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Romans 8:14-17 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption,
whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
beloved
True. The Body of Christ is actually a very small remnant Isaiah 1:9 KJV.
~~~~~
Gal. 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Romans 8:14-17 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption,
whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
beloved
True. The Body of Christ is actually a very small remnant Isaiah 1:9 KJV.
~~~~~
True
beloved57
Well-known member
The world of 2 Cor 5:19 a reconciled world !
The world of 2 Cor 5:19
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
The world here cannot in any wise be all men without exception as false claimed, simply based upon what is stated of this world, that God hath not imputed to it its trespasses, which also means that this worlds sins have been remitted , and therefore all of them that comprise this world are legally Justified from all sin, or freed from sin ; of which we know is not the case with all men without exception, its not the case with those who are already condemned Jn 3:18 and those whom are under God's wrath Jn 3:36, which things can only be true whenever God is holding them accountable for their sins against His Law, but how can that be to anyone of that world of 2 Cor 5:19 ? Frankly its impossible !
The world of 2 Cor 5:19
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
The world here cannot in any wise be all men without exception as false claimed, simply based upon what is stated of this world, that God hath not imputed to it its trespasses, which also means that this worlds sins have been remitted , and therefore all of them that comprise this world are legally Justified from all sin, or freed from sin ; of which we know is not the case with all men without exception, its not the case with those who are already condemned Jn 3:18 and those whom are under God's wrath Jn 3:36, which things can only be true whenever God is holding them accountable for their sins against His Law, but how can that be to anyone of that world of 2 Cor 5:19 ? Frankly its impossible !
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beloved57
Well-known member
The world of 2 Cor 5:19 a reconciled world ! 2
Now continuing on with the truth that the world of 2 Cor 5:19 cannot be all mankind without exception, and along with the Truth of Non Imputation of sin regarding it, accompanying that is the imputation of Righteousness, and we know that by Rom 4, lets read Rom 4:6-8
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Now Paul here is actually quoting from the OT, the Psalms Davids comments here Ps 32:1-2
1Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.
Which only mentions the blessedness of forgiveness Vs 1 and non imputation Vs 2, which is the same blessedness of non imputation of 2 Cor 5:19, however when Paul does refer to it, he adds what is stated in Rom 4:6
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Which is the imputing of Righteousness without works, which is not restricted to the works of the law, but works in general that includes works of the Law !
Then its followed by the direct quote of Ps 32:1-2, so it is the Spirit that hath joined them together, and we best take heed to Jesus words here "What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder."
So then, those constituting that World of 2 Cor 5:19 are also at the same time of non imputation of their sins, recipients of an imputed Righteousness without works, which of course makes this World in view : A Righteous World, Righteous in Christ Jesus !
Now continuing on with the truth that the world of 2 Cor 5:19 cannot be all mankind without exception, and along with the Truth of Non Imputation of sin regarding it, accompanying that is the imputation of Righteousness, and we know that by Rom 4, lets read Rom 4:6-8
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Now Paul here is actually quoting from the OT, the Psalms Davids comments here Ps 32:1-2
1Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.
Which only mentions the blessedness of forgiveness Vs 1 and non imputation Vs 2, which is the same blessedness of non imputation of 2 Cor 5:19, however when Paul does refer to it, he adds what is stated in Rom 4:6
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Which is the imputing of Righteousness without works, which is not restricted to the works of the law, but works in general that includes works of the Law !
Then its followed by the direct quote of Ps 32:1-2, so it is the Spirit that hath joined them together, and we best take heed to Jesus words here "What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder."
So then, those constituting that World of 2 Cor 5:19 are also at the same time of non imputation of their sins, recipients of an imputed Righteousness without works, which of course makes this World in view : A Righteous World, Righteous in Christ Jesus !
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beloved57
Well-known member
One offering[His Death] he hath perfected for ever !
We know Christ did not die for or taste death for Heb 2:9 for every single individual without exception, for one, because no verse in all the bible states that, that has only been the claims of unfaithful teachers forcing that meaning, and secondly because the effects that His death causes upon them He did die for does not happen unto all without exception, which one result is by it [His death] they have been perfected forever Heb 10:14
14 For by one offering[His death] he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
And for such there cannot be any eternal death Matt 25:41
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Now some may contend and say that Heb 10:14 applies to them that are being sanctified;
My answer to that would be, sure that's right, because all for whom Christ died are by that same one offering sanctified permanently Heb 10:10, and this entails and is accompanied with a purifying internally by reforming the soul by a saving knowledge of the Truth Jn 8:32
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
This is one of the Gifts to be bestowed upon them by the mediation of Christ Jn 17:17
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. [This is inwardly]
Which the Spirit is sent into us to do 2 Thess 2:13, and so thats all a result of the death of Christ, sanctifying and making perfect, all for whom He tasted death !
We know Christ did not die for or taste death for Heb 2:9 for every single individual without exception, for one, because no verse in all the bible states that, that has only been the claims of unfaithful teachers forcing that meaning, and secondly because the effects that His death causes upon them He did die for does not happen unto all without exception, which one result is by it [His death] they have been perfected forever Heb 10:14
14 For by one offering[His death] he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
And for such there cannot be any eternal death Matt 25:41
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Now some may contend and say that Heb 10:14 applies to them that are being sanctified;
My answer to that would be, sure that's right, because all for whom Christ died are by that same one offering sanctified permanently Heb 10:10, and this entails and is accompanied with a purifying internally by reforming the soul by a saving knowledge of the Truth Jn 8:32
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
This is one of the Gifts to be bestowed upon them by the mediation of Christ Jn 17:17
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. [This is inwardly]
Which the Spirit is sent into us to do 2 Thess 2:13, and so thats all a result of the death of Christ, sanctifying and making perfect, all for whom He tasted death !
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I believe that Jesus did die for all men in this way:
The works that he did on earth and after he arose from the dead is exactly what all men need to be glorified eternally. In that way he died for all men.
Yet, Adam and all men descending from him are the ones who brought on or bring on the exceptions due to their gift of free will.
Adam perverted all of creation including his descendents. Therefore, God, with his ability to KNOW all ... knows who will be called and who will choose not to acknowledge him. This makes it seem like HE was not willing to die for all men. He was willing ... all men are not.
The works that he did on earth and after he arose from the dead is exactly what all men need to be glorified eternally. In that way he died for all men.
Yet, Adam and all men descending from him are the ones who brought on or bring on the exceptions due to their gift of free will.
Adam perverted all of creation including his descendents. Therefore, God, with his ability to KNOW all ... knows who will be called and who will choose not to acknowledge him. This makes it seem like HE was not willing to die for all men. He was willing ... all men are not.
beloved57
Well-known member
False and delusional beliefs ! See you at the Judgment !
Jesus died for the sins of the whole world.
1 John 2:2 King James Version (KJV)
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Pretty simple huh.
beloved57
Well-known member
The Elect World of Israel. Who is Salvation promised to here Isa 45:17 ? That's simple !
Posted from the TOL App!
You still do not believe 1 John 2:2. You would rather be caught up in man's tradition
beloved57
Well-known member
The Elect World of Israel. Who is Salvation promised to here Isa 45:17 ? That's simple !
Posted from the TOL App!
Posted from the TOL App!
beloved57
Well-known member
One offering[His Death] he hath perfected for ever !
Now those whom God, by means of the death of Christ, sanctifies and perfects forever, shall have the following spiritual blessings to their favor Heb 10:15-18
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
Now Vs 16 Promises inward sanctification, consisting of His Law [which is spiritual] by His Spirit being put into the inward parts See Jer 31:33
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Now this is the result of Christ's death that permanently sanctified them Heb 10:10 that word sanctified hagiazó: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify, to purify internally by reformation of soul:
And thats why God fufills His Promise to " I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them"
Those Christ died for must experience, by the virtue of His death a purification internally, a renewal as indicated here Titus 3:5
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Its also the setting apart of our minds, emotions and will to do the will of God, we are given the Spirit of Life Rom 8:2, for Christ the Mediator of the Covenant, upon His death and resurrection for us [the elect] sends into us a life giving Spirit 1 Cor 15:45
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
45 Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.ESV
This brings to pass the blessed effects of His death sanctifying them internally, hence being permanently sanctified by His one and only tasting of death, which ensures those blessings Heb 10:16 !
So, understand, you who ignorantly insist that Christ's death was for all without exception, then you must explain why all without exception do not experience the blessings of Heb 10:16 ! You are saying that Christ's death failed to produce those blessed results, which is contrary to scripture !
Now those whom God, by means of the death of Christ, sanctifies and perfects forever, shall have the following spiritual blessings to their favor Heb 10:15-18
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
Now Vs 16 Promises inward sanctification, consisting of His Law [which is spiritual] by His Spirit being put into the inward parts See Jer 31:33
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Now this is the result of Christ's death that permanently sanctified them Heb 10:10 that word sanctified hagiazó: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify, to purify internally by reformation of soul:
And thats why God fufills His Promise to " I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them"
Those Christ died for must experience, by the virtue of His death a purification internally, a renewal as indicated here Titus 3:5
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Its also the setting apart of our minds, emotions and will to do the will of God, we are given the Spirit of Life Rom 8:2, for Christ the Mediator of the Covenant, upon His death and resurrection for us [the elect] sends into us a life giving Spirit 1 Cor 15:45
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
45 Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.ESV
This brings to pass the blessed effects of His death sanctifying them internally, hence being permanently sanctified by His one and only tasting of death, which ensures those blessings Heb 10:16 !
So, understand, you who ignorantly insist that Christ's death was for all without exception, then you must explain why all without exception do not experience the blessings of Heb 10:16 ! You are saying that Christ's death failed to produce those blessed results, which is contrary to scripture !
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beloved57
Well-known member
One offering[His Death] he hath perfected for ever !
The bestowed blessings of Heb 10:16
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
This actually corresponds with and is in harmony with the Spiritual renewing of Titus 3:5
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Thats when new spiritual principles are implanted in us to commence us unto spiritual actions ! This is what effects our conversion, so all for whom Christ died, He Sovereignly provides for and effects their conversion, Peter said in a sermon Acts 3:26
26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
The risen Christ is responsible for the conversion of those He died for !
The bestowed blessings of Heb 10:16
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
This actually corresponds with and is in harmony with the Spiritual renewing of Titus 3:5
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Thats when new spiritual principles are implanted in us to commence us unto spiritual actions ! This is what effects our conversion, so all for whom Christ died, He Sovereignly provides for and effects their conversion, Peter said in a sermon Acts 3:26
26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
The risen Christ is responsible for the conversion of those He died for !
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beloved57
Well-known member
Christ died for us ??
Rom 5:8
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Now here when Paul writes " Christ died for us" it refers to the very same group here later in the epistle Rom 8:33-34
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Yes, it refers to God's Elect Vs 33 and Christ died for them 34 and makes intercession for them !
And so the consequences must be the same, it is God that Justifieth Vs 33 which is the same result following Rom 5:8 with Vs 9
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood or that fact that He died for us, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Also the same benefit of those Christ died for in Rom 8:33 of not having any charge against them, must apply to those that Christ died for in Rom 5:8, yes they were sinners, but no sin charges were imputed to them legally, they having been charged to Christ legally, sin cannot be Justly charged to the sinners and the sinners Surety at the same time , that is a perversion of Justice and what is right !
But the Us Christ died for is God's Elect !
Rom 5:8
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Now here when Paul writes " Christ died for us" it refers to the very same group here later in the epistle Rom 8:33-34
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Yes, it refers to God's Elect Vs 33 and Christ died for them 34 and makes intercession for them !
And so the consequences must be the same, it is God that Justifieth Vs 33 which is the same result following Rom 5:8 with Vs 9
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood or that fact that He died for us, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Also the same benefit of those Christ died for in Rom 8:33 of not having any charge against them, must apply to those that Christ died for in Rom 5:8, yes they were sinners, but no sin charges were imputed to them legally, they having been charged to Christ legally, sin cannot be Justly charged to the sinners and the sinners Surety at the same time , that is a perversion of Justice and what is right !
But the Us Christ died for is God's Elect !
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beloved57
Well-known member
He died for our sins according to scripture !
1 Cor 15:3
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
The scriptures that National Israel was instrumental by God to produce , also had a priesthood that typified an important aspect of the Person and work of Jesus Christ.
Christ for those He died, was their High Priest and theirs exclusivley, and as such, He was to offer sacrifice for the sins of the people Heb 2:16-17
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
The People are the seed of Abraham Vs 16, and not for every individual in the world, for such concept deviates from the typology of Christ's priesthood sacrifice !
Aarons priesthood was strictly for the Children of Israel, God's Chosen, for example Ex 28:29
And Aaron shall bear the names of the children of Israel in the breastplate of judgment upon his heart, when he goeth in unto the holy place, for a memorial before the Lord continually.
Lev 9:1-7
And it came to pass on the eighth day, that Moses called Aaron and his sons, and the elders of Israel;
2 And he said unto Aaron, Take thee a young calf for a sin offering, and a ram for a burnt offering, without blemish, and offer them before the Lord.
3 And unto the children of Israel thou shalt speak, saying, Take ye a kid of the goats for a sin offering; and a calf and a lamb, both of the first year, without blemish, for a burnt offering;
4 Also a bullock and a ram for peace offerings, to sacrifice before the Lord; and a meat offering mingled with oil: for to day the Lord will appear unto you.
5 And they brought that which Moses commanded before the tabernacle of the congregation: and all the congregation drew near and stood before the Lord.
6 And Moses said, This is the thing which the Lord commanded that ye should do: and the glory of the Lord shall appear unto you.
7 And Moses said unto Aaron, Go unto the altar, and offer thy sin offering, and thy burnt offering, and make an atonement for thyself, and for the people: and offer the offering of the people, and make an atonement for them; as the Lord commanded.
Lev 16:21-22
21 And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:
22 And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness.
Now whose sins and iniquities were bare away into the wilderness ? It was exclusively the Children of Israel, a people separated from all other peoples ! And that word bear is the hebrew word nasa' which means:
And it corresponds to the word taketh away here Jn 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
The words taketh away is the greek word airō and means:
Its the same result following the Sacrifice, so the world of Jn 1:29 according to typology would be the World of the Children of Israel, God's Elect !
People are careless in what one of the biblical definitions of world means, its the greek word kosmos and does carry the meaning of :
VIII. any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort
That means the Children of Israel collectively equates to a World !
Now a good way of scripturally understanding exactly whose sins Christ died for, Look at the High Priest Office of Christ, its Type in Aaron and who it was that Aaron was High Priest for Heb 2:16-17
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
1 Cor 15:3
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
The scriptures that National Israel was instrumental by God to produce , also had a priesthood that typified an important aspect of the Person and work of Jesus Christ.
Christ for those He died, was their High Priest and theirs exclusivley, and as such, He was to offer sacrifice for the sins of the people Heb 2:16-17
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
The People are the seed of Abraham Vs 16, and not for every individual in the world, for such concept deviates from the typology of Christ's priesthood sacrifice !
Aarons priesthood was strictly for the Children of Israel, God's Chosen, for example Ex 28:29
And Aaron shall bear the names of the children of Israel in the breastplate of judgment upon his heart, when he goeth in unto the holy place, for a memorial before the Lord continually.
Lev 9:1-7
And it came to pass on the eighth day, that Moses called Aaron and his sons, and the elders of Israel;
2 And he said unto Aaron, Take thee a young calf for a sin offering, and a ram for a burnt offering, without blemish, and offer them before the Lord.
3 And unto the children of Israel thou shalt speak, saying, Take ye a kid of the goats for a sin offering; and a calf and a lamb, both of the first year, without blemish, for a burnt offering;
4 Also a bullock and a ram for peace offerings, to sacrifice before the Lord; and a meat offering mingled with oil: for to day the Lord will appear unto you.
5 And they brought that which Moses commanded before the tabernacle of the congregation: and all the congregation drew near and stood before the Lord.
6 And Moses said, This is the thing which the Lord commanded that ye should do: and the glory of the Lord shall appear unto you.
7 And Moses said unto Aaron, Go unto the altar, and offer thy sin offering, and thy burnt offering, and make an atonement for thyself, and for the people: and offer the offering of the people, and make an atonement for them; as the Lord commanded.
Lev 16:21-22
21 And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:
22 And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness.
Now whose sins and iniquities were bare away into the wilderness ? It was exclusively the Children of Israel, a people separated from all other peoples ! And that word bear is the hebrew word nasa' which means:
And it corresponds to the word taketh away here Jn 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
The words taketh away is the greek word airō and means:
Its the same result following the Sacrifice, so the world of Jn 1:29 according to typology would be the World of the Children of Israel, God's Elect !
People are careless in what one of the biblical definitions of world means, its the greek word kosmos and does carry the meaning of :
VIII. any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort
That means the Children of Israel collectively equates to a World !
Now a good way of scripturally understanding exactly whose sins Christ died for, Look at the High Priest Office of Christ, its Type in Aaron and who it was that Aaron was High Priest for Heb 2:16-17
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
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