The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

[Rightglory]

rg



Yes, that is exactly what it means. Reasoning is part of giving ones views as it may oppose someones elses views. Any fool knows that.

But you are unable to defend your views. Making a statement of your view and then calling anyone else a liar if they make a point against is NOT a debate or discussion. If you cannot defend it, what good is the statement or assertion.

 

[beloved57]

rg

But you are unable to defend your views.

See my posts, I used scripture !

 

[Rightglory]

rg



See my posts, I used scripture !

so does every other person purveying their particular interpretation.

Why is your explanation of the text correct and someone else's incorrect of the same text?

 

[beloved57]

so does every other person purveying their particular interpretation.

Why is your explanation of the text correct and someone else's incorrect of the same text?

We both cannot be right, why should I believe my view not to be right ?

Posted from the TOL App!

 

[Rightglory]

We both cannot be right, why should I believe my view not to be right ?

Posted from the TOL App!

You can assume that, however, scripture has produced thousands of interpretations. They all use scripture and all of them also believe their interpretation is correct.
Which would mean from my perspective, Calvinism is no better or worse than Mormonism, Jehovah Witnesses, New Age, or any other view that uses scripture.

 

[beloved57]

rg

You can assume that, however, scripture has produced thousands of interpretations.

That does not matter, one is right ! Why should i think its not mine ?

 

[Rightglory]

rg



That does not matter, one is right ! Why should i think its not mine ?

I'm not saying it is not, nor that you should not believe what you believe. But of all those options existing today, can you prove yours is actually what scripture means and not from a man made interpretation, such as Joseph Smith for Mormonism, or Russell for Jehovah Witnesses.
If you cannot show yours to be actually what scripture means, then you cannot show any other to be false.

 

[beloved57]

I give my view with scripture, that is all the evidence I need to provide, and it is not necessary for you to be convinced of it or anyone else ! And so all views in opposition to my view is wrong and proven so in my mind, that is all that matters !

Posted from the TOL App!

 

[Ben Masada]

There are 3 tenses of Salvation: Past, Present, Future.

#1. We have been saved. Rom 8:24; Eph 2:5, 8
#2. We are being saved. Luke 13:23; Acts 2:47; 1 Cor 1:18; 2 Cor 2:15
#3. We will be saved. Matt 10:22; Acts 11:14; Rom 9:27; 10:13; 11:26

Adam & Eve and all their descendants experienced #1 & #2. Only overcomers will experience #3 (Rev 3:5).

In Christ,
Samie

IMHO, there are only two kinds of salvation: One is called personal salvation and the other is universal salvation. Personal salvation is achieved only after we get forgiven for having hurt one another. That's according to Matthew 5:23,24 or if we set things right with God through repentance and obedience to the Law. (Isaiah 1:18,29)

The universal salvation is taken for granted as long as Israel exist as a People before the Lord forever according to Jeremiah 31:35-37. It happens that immediately after the Flood, the Lord made a covenant with Noah and promised him that He would never allow another catastrophe of the size of the Flood to remove all of Mankind again as long as the natural laws function properly. That's in Genesis 8:21,22. Jeremiah read that text and connected it with Israel remaining before the Lord as a People as long as the natural laws function properly. (Jer. 31:35-37) Last but not least, Jesus must have read both those texts and concluded that indeed salvation comes from the Jews. (John 4:22) From the Jews, he said and not from one among the Jews.

 

[Rightglory]

I give my view with scripture, that is all the evidence I need to provide, and it is not necessary for you to be convinced of it or anyone else ! And so all views in opposition to my view is wrong and proven so in my mind, that is all that matters !

Posted from the TOL App!

Kinda fits into your known philosophy of predestination. It matters not what one believes since a person is elected to believe, to be saved no matter what he does or says. Evangelization, I imagine, is quite worthless in your view.

So, why are you even in an apologetic discussion forum?

 

[beloved57]

Kinda fits into your known philosophy of predestination. It matters not what one believes since a person is elected to believe, to be saved no matter what he does or says. Evangelization, I imagine, is quite worthless in your view.

So, why are you even in an apologetic discussion forum?

I have explained to you why Christ did not die for all without exception. It's pretty simple, those Christ died for are reconciled to God while they're enemies and unbelievers Rom 5:10 where as those He didn't die for are condemned while they're enemies John 3:18 hence the difference is the death of Christ !

Posted from the TOL App!

 

[beloved57]

IMHO, there are only two kinds of salvation: One is called personal salvation and the other is universal salvation. Personal salvation is achieved only after we get forgiven for having hurt one another. That's according to Matthew 5:23,24 or if we set things right with God through repentance and obedience to the Law. (Isaiah 1:18,29)

The universal salvation is taken for granted as long as Israel exist as a People before the Lord forever according to Jeremiah 31:35-37. It happens that immediately after the Flood, the Lord made a covenant with Noah and promised him that He would never allow another catastrophe of the size of the Flood to remove all of Mankind again as long as the natural laws function properly. That's in Genesis 8:21,22. Jeremiah read that text and connected it with Israel remaining before the Lord as a People as long as the natural laws function properly. (Jer. 31:35-37) Last but not least, Jesus must have read both those texts and concluded that indeed salvation comes from the Jews. (John 4:22) From the Jews, he said and not from one among the Jews.

False gospel of works !

Posted from the TOL App!

 

[godrulz]

rg



See my posts, I used scripture !

So do we...eisegesis of a paradigm, not exegesis in context.:argue:

2 Peter 3:9 contradicts you; Jn. 3:16 kosmos/world in Johannine use does not mean elect (will not work in other contexts).

I Tim. 2:4 Calvin added all kinds of people, something interpretative not supported by underlying Greek. Greek and English versions support all men, period (contradicting your view). Even Calvin did not teach limited atonement.

 

[beloved57]

So do we...eisegesis of a paradigm, not exegesis in context.:argue:

2 Peter 3:9 contradicts you; Jn. 3:16 kosmos/world in Johannine use does not mean elect (will not work in other contexts).

I Tim. 2:4 Calvin added all kinds of people, something interpretative not supported by underlying Greek. Greek and English versions support all men, period (contradicting your view). Even Calvin did not teach limited atonement.

Those verses apply only to the Elect !

Posted from the TOL App!

 

[Rightglory]

Those verses apply only to the Elect !

Posted from the TOL App!

another assertion with no evidence, Nothing in the context says elect.

 

[beloved57]

another assertion with no evidence, Nothing in the context says elect.

You mean there is no evidence to prove otherwise, and I have proven it plenty in my threads here !

 

[Samie]

Originally Posted by Samie View Post
What are in Scriptures are true; it's your position that is not true.

There are names written in the book of life that may yet be blotted out because of non-overcoming. You don't believe this, do you?

You don't believe the promise of God's Love to those He Loved through Christ do you ? Here it is Rom 8:37-39

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

You deny that those God Loved are more than overcomers ! You are a unbeliever !

The verses you quote are for the overcomers. Non-overcomers have their names written in the book of life but their names will be blotted out. You have no explanation why there are names written in the book of life that will be blotted out. And I understand why you have no explanation to give: The FALSE gospel you learned from your teachers has nothing to offer as an explanation.

And YES, I am a unbeliever: UNBELIEVER in your FALSE GOSPEL.

 

[beloved57]

samie

The verses you quote are for the overcomers.

Exactly, which are those God Loved Rom 8:37

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

The word through is dia and means:

A.the ground or reason by which something is or is not done
i.
by reason of

ii.
on account of

iii.
because of for this reason

iv.
therefore

v.
on this account

Thats the reason why they are more than overcomers Rom 8:37

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors [on this account] him that loved us.

So if you deny that any God Loved are not being more than overcomers, You reject the Truth ! And you are an unbeliever !

 

[Samie]

And again, b57, you have NOTHING to offer why there are names written in the book of life that will be blotted out.

 

[beloved57]

And again, b57, you have NOTHING to offer why there are names written in the book of life that will be blotted out.

You don't believe the Truth, those who are overcoming are those whom God is Loving Rom 8:37

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

And He was Loving them while they were in ungodliness and rebellion against Him Rom 5:8

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

While they were sinners and ungodly and enemies, they were not following Christ, but they were still being Loved by God, so they were being overcomers even then through Christ, who Loved them.

When Christ said Jn 16:33

These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

That was the overcoming of everyone He died for, it was not for Himself as an private person, but as the Federal Head of a People, those He died for. And He died for them out of God's Love for them Jn 3:16 !

This should shut your blaspheming mouth !