The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

[Nanja]

Folks if God has given us a honest heart by His Grace, we can see that according to scripture, Christ's Propitiation was exclusively for the sins of the People, the Seed of Abraham, for He is the Seed of Abraham Gal 3:16 and He died for His Seed Isa 53:10

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

Yes. Exclusively for His Seed... the "many" (Mat. 20:28).
Also, they are all the men God wills to save:

1 Tim. 2:3-4 - For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

~~~~~

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

What then is right? All exclusiveness is wrong: all inclusiveness (of true children of God) is right. Denominations are not scriptural, and we ought to have no part in them, but if we adopt an attitude of criticism, and think, They are denominational, I am undenominational; they belong to sects, I belong to Christ alone—such differentiating is definitely sectarian.

Yes, praise God I am of Christ, but my fellowship is not merely with those who say, “I am of Christ,” but with all who are of Christ. What is of vital importance is not the confession, but the fact. Although these other believers say they are of Paul, of Cephas and of Apollos, yet in fact they are of Christ. I do not so much mind what they say, but I very much mind what they are. I do not enquire whether they are denominational or undenominational, sectarian or unsectarian, I only enquire, Are they of Christ? If they are of Christ, then they are my brethren.

Our personal standing should be undenominational, but the basis of our fellowship is not undenominationalism. We ourselves should be non-sectarian, but we dare not insist on non-sectarianism as a condition of fellowship. Our only ground of fellowship is Christ. Our fellowship must be with all the believers in a locality, not merely with all the unsectarian believers in that locality. They may make denominational differences, but we must not make undenominational requirements. We dare not differentiate between ourselves and them because they differentiate between themselves and others. They are the children of God, and because they make distinctions between themselves and other children of God, they do not on that account cease to be the children of God. Their denominationalism or sectarianism will mean that severe limitations are imposed upon the Lord as to His purpose and mind for them, and this will mean that they will never go beyond a certain measure of spiritual growth and fullness. Blessing there may be, but fullness of Divine purpose never.

All believers living in the same locality belong to the same church. This is an unchanging principle.

 

[beloved57]

Yes. Exclusively for His Seed... the "many" (Mat. 20:28).
Also, they are all the men God wills to save:

1 Tim. 2:3-4 - For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

~~~~~

Yes, indeed !

 

[beloved57]

He died for the Seed of Abraham, not all mankind !

When Christ was made of a Woman and Under the Law as Per Gal 4:4-5

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

The scripture is pretty clear in fact, incontrovertible, whom it was for , not all mankind without exception but for the Seed of Abraham Heb 2:16-17

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

The Seed of Abraham is not all mankind, but a Chosen People from amongst mankind in general. Ps 105:6

O ye seed of Abraham his servant, ye children of Jacob his chosen.

Was not Christ the Seed of Abraham ? Gal 3:16

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

This also means that it was the Seed of Abraham that Adam exclusively represented in the beginning. It was that Seed that fell in Adam and that Seed which Christ came to recover.

The rest of mankind belongs to the seed of the serpent, whom Christ did not come to seek and to save !

 

[beloved57]

His Suffering and Death the same thing !

Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

The tasting of death Vs 9 here refers to the many Sons in Vs 10, for suffering here in Vs 10 is equivalent to death in Vs 9, and since the suffering in Vs 10 brings the many Son's to Glory, then it seems meet that the pas/every or all in Vs 9 be the same group. For His Suffering and Death go hand and hand 1 Pet 3:18

18 For Christ also hath once suffered or died for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

Notice here also the end of His Suffering and Death"that he might bring us to God"

The same as in Heb 2:10

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

its the same greek word in both passages for bring !

And besides later in the same Epistle to Hebrews, it again Identifies the Many [Sons] for whom He tasted death or bare their sins Heb 9:28

28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Which agree's with scripture here Isa 53:12

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

 

[beloved57]

Christ died for the Family of God !

Eph 3:14-15

14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

This is the Family that Adam represented in the beginning, all those who were Chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

That's the Family of God through Jesus Christ !

 

[beloved57]

Christ died for the Family of God ! 2

The Family of God are those of the Household of the Faith Gal 6:10

As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

Because those of the Faith are the Sons of God Gal 3:26

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Now Adam, in the Beginning was a Son of God Lk 3:38

38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

So, Adam was the Natural representative of the Son's of God, and we find out just who were in Adam in the beginning when God Created him in His image and Likeness, whenever one comes to Faith in Christ Jesus, those are the Children or Sons of God manifested by their Faith in Christ, the Seed of the Women .

 

[beloved57]

To redeem them under the Law !

Gal 4:4-5

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

The Adoption of Sons, the same as here Eph 1:5

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Same Greek word in Both huiothesia.

Now back to our text Gal 4:5 because it really identifies for us exactly whom Christ came up under the Law to redeem specifically.

Now who was that ? Heb 2:16-17

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

It was for the Seed of Abraham, His Brethren, the Chosen People of God. Jesus Christ did not come to redeem all mankind as many False teachers would tell us.

Lets look at another scripture Lk 1:68

68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

The redemption here is the same as here Eph 1:7

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

This is a Chosen People Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

And we know Israel in Lk 1:68 is a Chosen People , So why would this be a different Chosen People and different Redemption ?

Again the redeemed People in Eph 1:7 receive Forgiveness of sins

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

And the redeemed Chosen Israel in Lk 1:68 receives the Knoweldge of the forgiveness of sins Lk 1:68,77

77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

Now we have Three corresponding Truths of the redeemed People here in Luke and Ephesians,#1 they are Chosen People, they are a Redeemed People, and 3 They are a forgiven People.

And of course those Christ came to redeem that were under the Law as Per Gal 4:4-5 to receive the Adoption of Sons, its the same said of those Chosen in Christ before the Foundation to receive the Adoption of Sons through Jesus Christ Eph 1:4-5.

And yet false religion tells us these are different sets of People. These are the only People Christ came to redeem !

 

[beloved57]

To redeem them under the Law !2

Those Jesus came to redeem, He legally must have been a kinsmen, not a physical kinsmen, but a Spiritual one, yet typified by the physical as in the redemption laws of Israel. He was what is called a kinsmen Redeemer . This is why Physical Israel was Created to qualify as a Type, an figure, and so Christ came to redeem His Kinsmen the Seed of Abraham Heb 2:16-17

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Lk 1:68-73

68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

Christ came to redeem His People, Kinsmen, for He is the Seed of Abraham Gal 3:16

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Salvation, Redemption, those things are based upon a Promise to Abraham's Seed !

John Gill writes on Lk 1:68:

for he hath visited, and redeemed his people; as he did Israel of old, Exodus 3:16 when the Lord looked upon them, and delivered them out of the bondage of Egypt, and which was a type and resemblance of redemption by Christ; and to which reference here seems to be had. The "people" here said to be visited, and redeemed, design all the elect of God, not only among the Jews, but Gentiles also; all those whom God has chosen to be his people, and has in his covenant taken and declared to be such; whom he has given to Christ, as his people and portion; for whose sins he was stricken, and made reconciliation, and whom he saves from their sins.

Now to say the least, we should know from scripture that everyone in the world without exception are not of the Seed of Abraham, and therefore Christ bares no Kinsmen relation to , to be their Redeemer. Now all those Chosen in Christ, the Seed of Abraham, Chosen in Him before the world began Eph 1:4, He bares that Kinsmen Redeemer Relationship to, all others outside of that Spiritual Israel, have no part !

 

[beloved57]

God has redeemed only His People as Promised !

Lk 1:68

68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

Also cp Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

That's right, the Jesus here spoken of had only one group of people Salvation at Heart, The Elect of God or Israel, God's Elect from every tribe nation tongue and people, Abraham's Spiritual Seed.

That's why back in the Luke 1 account it reads in connection with redemption and Salvation Lk 1:54-55,72-73

54 He hath helped his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy;

55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.

72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

Christ is that Promise, all the promises of God are ended in Him 2 Cor 1:20

20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Rom 15:8-10

8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.

10 And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people.

That's why His People in Matt 1:21 does include elect Gentiles !

God has only one people in this world, upon this earth, and that is the seed of Abraham, His friends Isa 41:8

But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

Heb 2:16

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. He did not come and identify with all mankind in the things pertaining to God and reconciliation, but only did He Identify with His Bride the Church and the Seed of Abraham, they're the same. If Christ is the Seed of Abraham Gal 3:16 and the Head of the Church, and He and His Body are One, then that makes His Body also the Seed of Abraham, for the Body and Head are One 1 Cor 12:12

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

Now is this Christ and the One here the Same one ? Gal 3:16

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.


I believe they're the same Christ !

Men are redeemed by His Life given and He giveth it as the Good Shepherd of the Sheep Jn 10:11

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

Not the goats !

 

[beloved57]

wrong thread !

 

[beloved57]

Scriptures that Teach Limited Atonement !

There are many scriptures that teach limited atonement, the fact that The Salvation of God through Christ, its is Limited to only a certain People; Lets look at Lk 1:68-69

68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

Note the sacrded words, He [ The Lord God of Israel] hath raised up a Horn of Salvation, FOR US IN THE HOUSE OF DAVID, that's particular redemption.

Now is the House of David everyone in the world without exception ? Any truthful , honest heart will acknowledge that its not, so this passage witnesses to us that in the Divine Purpose Salvation is unto us in the House of David, the Elect of God amongst mankind !

 

[beloved57]

Redemption in Christ Jesus is Limited to a people !

Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Also in the greek this redemption reads with the definite article :

δικαιούμενοι δωρεὰν τῇ αὐτοῦ χάριτι διὰ τῆς ἀπολυτρώσεως τῆς ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ

So lets get this clear, there is only one method of Redemption or means of Redemption, that which is accomplished through Christ Jesus , and as I am going to show from scripture, that its restricted to a single people, its Particular Redemption that is in Christ Jesus !

That its restricted to only a particular people, a people of God's Own choice its seen here Gal 4:4-6

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Now who are the them here ? Its to whomsover God sends forth the Spirit of His Son into their hearts, that [hina] in order that we mayy receive the Adoption of Sons ! Now thats very particular as well as certain !

All for whom He came to redeem shall call on God through the Spirit " Abba, Father."

Also they had been predestined to receive that Adoption Eph 1:3-5

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Thats why God sends the Spirit of His Son in their hearts ! Here its the adoption of Children, but its the same word huios Sons as in Gal 4:5

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

So without dispute, thats the Specific THEM that Christ was made under the Law in behalf of, to redeem THEM Gal 4:4-5

But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

The end result being Vs 6

6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

If you or i never receive the Spirit of Adoption, manifesting us to to be the Sons or Children of God, then we never belonged to God as per indicated here Rom 8:9

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

If we belonged to God, Christ died for us and redeemed us, then God sends the Spirit of Christ His Son into our hearts proving that we were redeemed by Christ's Blood !

But if not, it simply means that Christ's Redemptive death was not for us ! That Redemption in Christ Jesus was not for us, because we never belonged to God !

 

[beloved57]

Redemption in Christ Jesus is Limited to a people 2

In light of to whom the Redemption in Christ Jesus was specifically for, Abraham had a Seed in the Nations among the Gentiles, for it was Abraham's Seed that was under the Law, Abraham had a Spiritual Seed among the Nations, not just among the ethnic jews, and they as Heirs of Abraham, shall receive the Promise of the Spirit of Adoption, as a result of Redemption through Christ Jesus, Gal 3:13-14

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Its the same Promise being elucidated as in Gal 4:4-7, and by this the Gospel Promise to Abraham is fulfilled, which is declared here Gal 3:8

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Their Justification by Faith comes through receiving the Blessing of Abraham, which is the Spirit Gal 3:14

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

The same Spirit of Adoption as Per Gal 4:6

6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

 

[Nanja]

beloved

All for whom He came to redeem shall call on God through the Spirit " Abba, Father."

Indeed; and an amazing miracle of confirmation to experience!

~~~~~

 

[beloved57]

beloved


Indeed; and an amazing miracle of confirmation to experience!

~~~~~

Amen. Also it confirms that its impossible for Christ to have died for all mankind, when in deed it did not produce this effect to all mankind without exception. For example Christ shall say this Matt 7:23

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

They never belonged to Christ, lest He lied here !

 

[Nanja]

Amen. Also it confirms that its impossible for Christ to have died for all mankind, when in deed it did not produce this effect to all mankind without exception. For example Christ shall say this Matt 7:23

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

They never belonged to Christ, lest He lied here !

Most definitely. The lie that Christ died for for all of mankind without exception is perpetrated by the man of sin and his false / deceptive religious system.

~~~~~

 

[beloved57]

Most definitely. The lie that Christ died for for all of mankind without exception is perpetrated by the man of sin and his false / deceptive religious system.

~~~~~

Amen !

 

[godrulz]

Most definitely. The lie that Christ died for for all of mankind without exception is perpetrated by the man of sin and his false / deceptive religious system.

~~~~~

Hogwash...Calvinism is the problem, not biblical, historical, orthodox Christianity.

 

[Bright Raven]

Hogwash...Calvinism is the problem, not biblical, historical, orthodox Christianity.

Amen Brother, Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the WORLD. Yet only those who accept the atonement are saved.

I don't see Calvinism when looked at in a non-hyper sense as posing a problem. Those who accept Christ's atonement are saved, those who do not aren't.