The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
godrulz said:
Hogwash...Calvinism is the problem, not biblical, historical, orthodox Christianity.
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Calvinism is the Gospel of God's Grace, you calling it calvinism isnt changing anything ! This kind of behaviour was predicted long ago against the Truth 2 Pet 2:2

And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
 
Nanja

Nanja

Well-known member
Salvation is not an offer to all of mankind to merely to accept or reject according to his own will.

On the contrary, it was God's Will to give His Son all those He had chosen and predestinated before the foundation of the world (2 Tim. 1:9). He is the One who makes those He has chosen to be accepted in the beloved. These are all the Chosen Elect ones:

Eph. 1:4-11 According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, To the praise of the glory of His grace, wherein He hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace:

1 Pet. 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Only as many as The Father has given Him. They were set-apart, called by God and preserved in Jesus Christ (Jud 1:1). This is the World Christ died to give Eternal Life to: only those that God has given Him (John 17:2); the same ones spoken of in Acts 13:48.

~~~~~
 
G

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
2 Peter 3:9

I Tim. 2:4

Jn. 3:16 (world=unregenerate, not elite elect).

God's love is not arbitrary nor limited.
 
S

Samie

New member
There are 3 tenses of Salvation: Past, Present, Future.

#1. We have been saved. Rom 8:24; Eph 2:5, 8
#2. We are being saved. Luke 13:23; Acts 2:47; 1 Cor 1:18; 2 Cor 2:15
#3. We will be saved. Matt 10:22; Acts 11:14; Rom 9:27; 10:13; 11:26

Adam & Eve and all their descendants experienced #1 & #2. Only overcomers will experience #3 (Rev 3:5).

In Christ,
Samie
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
samie

Only overcomers will experience #3 (Rev 3:5).
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That would be everyone God Loved through Jesus Christ, because they are more than overcomers Rom 8:37,39

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Now say its not true and be found a liar !
 
S

Samie

New member
What are in Scriptures are true; it's your position that is not true.

There are names written in the book of life that may yet be blotted out because of non-overcoming. You don't believe this, do you?
 
R

Rightglory

New member
beloved57 said:
Amen. Also it confirms that its impossible for Christ to have died for all mankind, when in deed it did not produce this effect to all mankind without exception. For example Christ shall say this Matt 7:23

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

They never belonged to Christ, lest He lied here !
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Let's be honest here. You are teaching a view that denies the Incarnation of Christ. It denies that Christ became man in order to defeat death and grant life to the world. It is direct denial of the resurrection of the dead because it denies the resurrection of Christ as understood in scripture.

As part of the Christology the Incarnation is one of the hallmarks that distinguishes it from all other religions.

If you think you can prove that the understanding, meaning of the Incarnation was never part of scripture, then you can begin to build an argument of a limited atonement, whatever that might be.

If you cannot, then your view stands as a false teaching. So, go for it. See if you can cite evidence that the Incarnation has NEVER ever been a teaching of scripture.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Samie said:
What are in Scriptures are true; it's your position that is not true.

There are names written in the book of life that may yet be blotted out because of non-overcoming. You don't believe this, do you?
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You don't believe the promise of God's Love to those He Loved through Christ do you ? Here it is Rom 8:37-39

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

You deny that those God Loved are more than overcomers ! You are a unbeliever !
 
R

Rightglory

New member
beloved57 said:
rg



Yes, the christ you believe in !
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well, prove it, don't just say it. You need to prove that the view I hold, as all Christians have always held, that Christ did not became man, was Incarnated of the Virgin Mary and died and rose again to give life to the world. Christians have always believed in the resurrection of the dead, all the dead, not a limited resurrection of some dead. Your view actually eliminates the need for a hell, actually heaven as well, but I will grant you heaven since your "elect" will be going somewhere, presuming your view even has a resurrection of some dead.

Go for it. B57. Cite your evidence that "limited atonement" is a valid view of scripture. Can you do it. Or are you just going to hide behind your empty assertions.
 
R

Rightglory

New member
beloved57 said:
rg



I have check my threads and posts !
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I have, this entire post which has been active for 5 years + and you still have not proved your OP.

You simply make unfounded assertions because you can never produce the evidence that your view is scriptural as it was understood from the beginning.

Your OP here is a direct denial of the Incarnation. So either prove your premise or it stands as false.

You can believe in a limited atonement, but what I am asking is to prove it as the meaning of scripture as understood from the beginning. All false views are also based on scripture.
 
R

Rightglory

New member
beloved57 said:
rg



If you don't believe the evidence, nothing i can do about that, my only duty is to testify to it !
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If you could actually produce it we can see whether it is believable or not. Otherwise it stands as false. Again, I'm not saying you don't have to believe what you believe. You are free to believe whatever you like, but if you say it is scriptural, meaning scripture has always taught your view, then produce the evidence.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
rg

If you could actually produce it
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I have see my posts, there is nothing in scripture that tells a man to make a person believe the evidence of scripture !

Paul proved with scripture that Jesus was the Christ to unbelieving jews, but that did not make them believe it, not all of them Acts 17:2-5

2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

4 And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few.

5 But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar, and assaulted the house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people.

So I have reasoned with you out of the scripture the things of God and Christ, and you don't believe, nothing i can do about that, see ya at the Judgment !
 
R

Rightglory

New member
beloved57 said:
rg



I have see my posts, there is nothing in scripture that tells a man to make a person believe the evidence of scripture !

Paul proved with scripture that Jesus was the Christ to unbelieving jews, but that did not make them believe it, not all of them Acts 17:2-5

2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

4 And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few.

5 But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar, and assaulted the house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people.

So I have reasoned with you out of the scripture the things of God and Christ, and you don't believe, nothing i can do about that, see ya at the Judgment !
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So, you are unable to debate your view. Are you capable of debating? Are you to young possibly to understand the idea of debating? Or have never acquired the skill to do so? If so, then I understand.
Otherwise this is just a cop out because you don't have the evidence to show your view is scriptural as always understood.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
rg

So, you are unable to debate your view.
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What do you think reasoned with means ? Acts 17:2-3

2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

Are you saying I have not reasoned with you out of the scripture ? Thats debate !
 
R

Rightglory

New member
beloved57 said:
rg



What do you think reasoned with means ? Acts 17:2-3

2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

Are you saying I have not reasoned with you out of the scripture ? Thats debate !
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No, that is not what debate means. Paul is preaching the Gospel. He is not being apologetic in that he might be debating the Gospel with a Gnostic. The best we have of Paul doing such a thing in scripture is the discourse of Rom 9-11 when he is debating a hypothetical Judaizer.

This is an apologetic forum, debating differing view of what scripture means.
 
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