The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
rg

Do you have difficulty in understanding what I had originally stated?
Click to expand...

No, now do you ? Here it is again:

Which of those verses say that Christ did not just die for the Elect or Sheep ?
 
C

Christian Liberty

Well-known member
godrulz said:
No, TULIP is a theory by Calvin, etc. about the details of soteriology, perseverance, providence, sovereignty, etc. The gospel is about the person and work of Christ that Calvinists and Arminians agree on in general. Doctrinal disputes/theory/perfection of theological understanding do not save, but Christ and His grace does regardless of academic theory few understand.
Click to expand...

Just to play devil's advocate, do Calvinists and Arminians really believe the same thing about the person and work of Christ? Calvinists believe Christ's work is completely effacacious. Arminians do not.
 
1

12jtartar

New member
beloved57 said:
Another popular Myth in the religious world today, is the Jesus Christ died or gave His Life for everyone in the world without exception, but the problem with that, is there is not one shred of scripture evidence that states that.

The scripture however does say that He died for His Sheep or His Church as per Jn 10:11,15

11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

Eph 5:25

25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

His People Isa 53:8

8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. cp Matt 1:21

Now, are all without exception His Sheep ? No

Are all without exception His Church ? No

Are all without exception His People ? No

For surely the seed of the serpent Gen 3:15 cannot be of His Sheep, His Church, or His People.

So why does the religous world proclaim that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception, when they have no scripture proof ? Because it is a Myth.
Click to expand...

Beloved57,
I understand exactly what you are saying, and your meaning is accurate, but the Bible does say that Jesus died for every man. What this actually means is; he died for every man that takes advantage of his ransom sacrifice, and obeys his teachings, John 3:16, 1John 5:11-13.
Rom 11:26, 2Cor 5:14,15, 2Cor 15:22, 1Tim 2:5,6, 1John 2:2, Heb 2:9, all seem to say that Jesus died for all men, but it must be remembered what I said in other places, Matt 7:13,14, 7: 21-23, Luke 13:23,24, Rom 9:27.
Only the ones who put there faith in Jesus name can be saved, Acts 4:12, John 20:31.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
12j

I understand exactly what you are saying, and your meaning is accurate, but the Bible does say that Jesus died for every man.
Click to expand...

He did, as the Shepherd of the Sheep. I know you refer to Heb 2:9, so lets look also at Heb 13:20

20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

So He died for every man of the Sheepfold !
 
R

Rightglory

New member
12jtartar said:
Beloved57,
I understand exactly what you are saying, and your meaning is accurate, but the Bible does say that Jesus died for every man. What this actually means is; he died for every man that takes advantage of his ransom sacrifice, and obeys his teachings, John 3:16, 1John 5:11-13.
Rom 11:26, 2Cor 5:14,15, 2Cor 15:22, 1Tim 2:5,6, 1John 2:2, Heb 2:9, all seem to say that Jesus died for all men, but it must be remembered what I said in other places, Matt 7:13,14, 7: 21-23, Luke 13:23,24, Rom 9:27.
Only the ones who put there faith in Jesus name can be saved, Acts 4:12, John 20:31.
Click to expand...

You are speaking of two different things.

The work of Christ namely the atonement which includes the sacrifice for sin, and death/resurrection for life, which constitutes the salvation from death and sin, the gift of salvation to all men, is the reconciliation of the world by Christ to God.

Your whole reference is about the purpose of that reconciliation which was to call all men to repentance. That all men will be given the choice to either accept or reject His offer of eternal union.
Man does not need to accept or reject the Gift. It is a given, a gift.

What God requires is that you believe that He in fact did save you and all humanity from death and sin, thus be justified by that faith. We are then saved through our faith which is the following the example and model of Christ in how we live our lives.

It is not even reasonable to say, we accept His sacrifice. What good does accepting it do for us? What good would it do to say we accept His resurrection? The sacrifice and the resurrection are events that have been concluded and man cannot effect or affect anything regarding them.
 
G

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Christian Liberty said:
Just to play devil's advocate, do Calvinists and Arminians really believe the same thing about the person and work of Christ? Calvinists believe Christ's work is completely effacacious. Arminians do not.
Click to expand...

Huh? In Calvinism and Arminianism, many perish in hell.

Your assumptions are wrong. TULIP is problematic on each point. I suspect you do not understand the debate.
 
Ardima

Ardima

New member
beloved57 said:
Which of those verses say that Christ did not just die for the Elect or Sheep ?
Click to expand...

All of them, especially Romans 5:18. If you cannot see that the righteous act mentioned here is Christ's death then you have been blinded to the truth.
 
MichaelCadry

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Dearest Beloved57,

Break it down now. Jesus died for all of us, even the atheists cannot escape His grasp unless God does not find their name written in the Book of Life. Jesus died for every one of us. He is great. We are not thinking straight to think that He would just die for His own flock and not others. Jesus died for the Jews and the Gentiles too. This should not even still be a question. Enough said.

Amen,
In Christ's And God's Love,

MichaelCadry
 
MichaelCadry

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
But Dear Beloved57,

No, Christ did not die for the antichrist or false prophet, nor Lucifer, who are all destined to be singed forever in the lake of fire. This is inescapable for them all. Few are they who are destined to the lake of fire. I am not even sure all of the six hundred and sixty six persons of the antichrist are determined to burn in the lake of fire forever. But I do know those who are, namely Satan, the antichrist Uri Geller, and the false prophet Jean-Pierre Girard. Some of you do not know them and it's best you don't bother. They are of the other side. You'd just as soon not bother knowing them, but that's up to you.

In Christ's Love and Wisdom,

MichaelC
 
MichaelCadry

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Dear beloved57,

God is a God of Forgiveness and Mercy, and Love and Understanding. It is a narrow gate to enter Heaven, but there will be a 2nd, last, resurrection about 2,000 years from now, and it written 'and death and hell yielded up those who were in them and they were judged each one, according to his/her works.' See Rev. 20:13. God is more generous than you realize and will even forgive some who have been in hell because their sins are not as grievous as the ones we do nowadays.

God's Best For You,

Michael
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top