Christian Liberty
Well-known member
Of course not. But he was talking about unbelievers too.
Hypers gonna hyper I guess.
The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !
- Thread starter beloved57
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Of course not. But he was talking about unbelievers too.
Hypers gonna hyper I guess.
beloved57
Well-known member
rp
Ok then. The Gospel Call of Repentance in view of the remission of sins is to Go out to all men everywhere ! Lk 24:46-47
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Guess what among all nations mean ? Try everywhere, OK !
Ok then. The Gospel Call of Repentance in view of the remission of sins is to Go out to all men everywhere ! Lk 24:46-47
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Guess what among all nations mean ? Try everywhere, OK !
http://www.true2ourselves.com/beloved57
Darryl
Male
55 years old
United States 30088
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July 26 2011
No, I affirm loving obedience because we are saved, not in order to be saved (like Jesus and Paul did). We are not saved by works (Jn. 1:12; Jn. 3:16; Rom. 10:9-10; Rom. 1:16; Eph. 2:8-10; Titus 3:5; Rom. 4-5, etc.).
Jesus was asked about workS and salvation (plural). The worK (singular) of God is to believe/faith (Jn. 6:29).
You misrepresent my view=straw man; ad hominem.
No, trinity is biblical, historical, orthodox view, but Joe Smith's 'plurality of gods' is pagan polytheism.
I have finished BOM and am reading D and C. The maze of Mormonism is as fascinating as it is false/myth.
I also went to Temple Square in Salt Lake City. I even got a $10 Amazon card for doing an iPad survey to proselytize me into the church (I will be Christian lit with it).
Zion National Park and Bryce Canyon were breath taking.
Brigham Young's house was fun. He had a copy of a book by John Wesley. If he had listened to Wesley (biblical Christian), you might not be a Mormon today.
Follow Jesus, not false prophets, so-called.
beloved57
Well-known member
You teach salvation by works, by keeping commands of God ! Believing is a work.
Faith or believing is a work because its an conscience act of man, and any act done by us, either in an regenerate state or unregenerate is a work.
And of course those who believe in Faith or Believing before New Birth, they believe there act of faith in an unregenerate state is what caused God to save them, to regenerate them, hence Salvation is by their work, their conscience act of believing.
nikolai_42
Well-known member
I know I'm late to this topic, but my question is when can we say to someone that Christ died for them?
My assumption (based on my limited understanding of this topic) is that that can only be said of the elect. And, since we can't know who the elect are, this becomes a debate about something that is known only to God. So while the doctrine may well be correct, what's the point of knowing Christ died for you only if you are the elect?
To add an observation. If (again, I'm assuming - please correct me if I'm wrong) the elect are known only to God and so only He can know if Christ died for them personally, why is it we have unqualified statements in several places where we are told Christ died for the ungodly, for us, for the weaker brother, for all etc...? In other words, these are personal applications of a general doctrinal statement (who Christ died for) that, according to the Reformed doctrine, can only be applied to the elect (which is known only to God). How can Paul make these applications personal when he can't know who the elect are?
beloved57
Well-known member
niko
Because the Elect by nature are ungodly.
Paul made a charitable judgment of all who received the Gospel He Preached, that they were saved and among the Elect of God. 1 Thess 1:4-6
4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.
6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost.
1 Cor 15:1-4
Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Because the Elect by nature are ungodly.
Paul made a charitable judgment of all who received the Gospel He Preached, that they were saved and among the Elect of God. 1 Thess 1:4-6
4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.
6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost.
1 Cor 15:1-4
Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
nikolai_42
Well-known member
So can we then call them one of the elect?
With that I concur. The Lord will call out a people for His name. It's not, however, always clear where our working is His work.
beloved57
Well-known member
nico
I would call them a believer.
Jesus gives belief of the Gospel as an evidence of one being saved. Mk 16:15-16
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
So again, if a person believes the Gospel and perseveres in it, its charitable to consider them a believer, one of the elect until something proves different.
I would call them a believer.
Jesus gives belief of the Gospel as an evidence of one being saved. Mk 16:15-16
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
So again, if a person believes the Gospel and perseveres in it, its charitable to consider them a believer, one of the elect until something proves different.
beloved57
Well-known member
The cursed Christ did not die for !
Matt 25:41
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Depart from me ye cursed. There is only one thing in scripture, God's book that brings a curse, and that is sin against God's Law Gal 3:10
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
You can rest assured that these goats, not sheep, on Christ's left side, whom He says to them "depart from me ye cursed", that they are none for whom He died on the Cross for; this is because for all whom He died, by His death alone, He redeemed them from the curse of the Law Gal 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Now how did He do this ? By being made a curse for them, hanging on a tree; The Tree of which He bare their sins in His Body 1 Pet 2:24
24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
Where there is no sin, the curse is removed, and all for whom Christ died, He put away their sins before God's Law and Justice !
So those in Matt 25:41 could not have been any whose sins He bare on the Tree, and redeemed them from the curse of the Law, by being made a curse for them.
That word for in Gal 3:13
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Its the word hyper and means:
in behalf of, for the sake of
So He was made a curse in behalf of all for whom He died !
Matt 25:41
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Depart from me ye cursed. There is only one thing in scripture, God's book that brings a curse, and that is sin against God's Law Gal 3:10
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
You can rest assured that these goats, not sheep, on Christ's left side, whom He says to them "depart from me ye cursed", that they are none for whom He died on the Cross for; this is because for all whom He died, by His death alone, He redeemed them from the curse of the Law Gal 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Now how did He do this ? By being made a curse for them, hanging on a tree; The Tree of which He bare their sins in His Body 1 Pet 2:24
24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
Where there is no sin, the curse is removed, and all for whom Christ died, He put away their sins before God's Law and Justice !
So those in Matt 25:41 could not have been any whose sins He bare on the Tree, and redeemed them from the curse of the Law, by being made a curse for them.
That word for in Gal 3:13
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Its the word hyper and means:
in behalf of, for the sake of
So He was made a curse in behalf of all for whom He died !
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beloved57
Well-known member
That Hell !
That Hell !
Matt 23:23
Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
That Hell, of which you will find out more in the day of Judgment !
That Hell !
Matt 23:23
Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
That Hell, of which you will find out more in the day of Judgment !
Ben Masada
New member
Behold! The NT and all Christians claim that Jesus insulted the Jewish authorities by name calling them serpents and generation of vipers. I wonder if Jesus would have liked to be addressed in the same words. Obviously not. It means that he broke the Golden Rule of not doing unto others what he would not like they did unto himself. The Golden Rule embraces all the second part of the Catalog. In other words Jesus broke the Law and became himself in need of a savior. Besides, it is not my saying so but Christians themselves and their own NT.
beloved57
Well-known member
bm
He called them what they were, children of the devil, of the serpents seed. Gen 3:14-15
14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
He did not die for them !
He called them what they were, children of the devil, of the serpents seed. Gen 3:14-15
14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
He did not die for them !
Christian Liberty
Well-known member
I think its funny: The OP says "Without exception" as if there were only a few people Christ did not die for, when in fact, Christ didn't die for most people
Ben Masada
New member
Bad quotation that of Genesis 3:14,15. You ought to fix it with John 8:44. And do you want to know why he called those Jews children of the Devil? If you ask me I don't believe he ever insulted the Jews that way but if you read verse 41, the reason was because some of those Jews perhaps who grew up with him had found out that Jesus had been born out of fornication. Could it be that the myth of the Roman soldier Panthera was true after all? The Roman occupation of Israel had indeed produced a large number of mamzers (bastards) by way of rapes according to First Century Historian Josephus.
beloved57
Well-known member
bm
No its not, its actually good bible teaching. You do not believe the bible. Those jews in Jn 8:44, the seed of abraham Jn 8:37
37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
They were not God's People at all, Jesus indicates that here Jn 8:42
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
But they had their father in the devil Jn 8:44
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Those are physical ethnic jews, of abraham's bloodliine He is speaking with ! The ones you take so much pride and glory in, you see How the Son of God thinks of them don't you ?
No its not, its actually good bible teaching. You do not believe the bible. Those jews in Jn 8:44, the seed of abraham Jn 8:37
37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
They were not God's People at all, Jesus indicates that here Jn 8:42
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
But they had their father in the devil Jn 8:44
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Those are physical ethnic jews, of abraham's bloodliine He is speaking with ! The ones you take so much pride and glory in, you see How the Son of God thinks of them don't you ?
Ben Masada
New member
Again you missed verse 41; John 8:41. That's the reason why Jesus got so upset at them. Why don't you read it?
beloved57
Well-known member
I read it, plenty of times, now read this:
Those jews in Jn 8:44, the seed of abraham Jn 8:37
37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
They were not God's People at all, Jesus indicates that here Jn 8:42
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
But they had their father in the devil Jn 8:44
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Those are physical ethnic jews, of abraham's bloodliine He is speaking with ! The ones you take so much pride and glory in, you see How the Son of God thinks of them don't you ?