The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

[beloved57]

Suretyship cont

Christ as the Surety for God's chosen people paid in full the debt of punishment for their sins, as they were lawbreakers by nature, hence Isa 53:6,8

6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

1 Cor 15:3

3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

2 Cor 5:21

21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Rom 4:25

25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Hence Christ paid the debt of punishment incurred by their sins, which includes the curse of the Law, for the law gives sin its strength 1 Cor 15:56

56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

Which brings the curse Gal 3:10,13


10For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.


So because He was their surety, He by taking their transgressions opon Himself became accyrsed, a law breaker for them vs

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

 

[beloved57]

Suretyship cont

Now by paying both of these debts as surety, that is the debt of obedience to God's Holy Law, and the debt of Punishment for a violated Law, Christ as Surety has fulfilled for His People the whole righteousness of the Law, for He was their Head and they were His body, so He is the Saviour of His Body eph 5:

23For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the Saviour of the body.

The Head is the Legal Surety for His Body..

Christ Surety-Ship does not stop there, but it also requires him to bring the many sons to Glory Heb 2:10

10For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

As seen here, His Sufferings [death] is inseparably linked with bringing many sons to Glory..

This was typified in the OT scriptures with Judah in regards to his younger brother Benjamin Gen 43:9

9I will be surety for him; of my hand shalt thou require him: if I bring him not unto thee, and set him before thee, then let me bear the blame for ever:

Thats what Christ's Suretyship ensures, it brings those beloved of God to Him, to Glory !

Gen 44:32

32 For thy servant became surety for the lad unto my father, saying, If I bring him not unto thee, then I shall bear the blame to my father for ever.

You see, Jesus Christ as Surety for God's People, those given to Him by the Father in the covenant of redemption Jn 6:37,39

37All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. [ They will be brought to Glory]

39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.[Bringing them to Glory]

If He does not successfully bring all to Glory whom God would have saved and come into a knowledge of the Truth [ 1 Tim 2:4] and present every last one of them before the Father with Joy, He is to be Blamed forever !

Those who teach a false gospel and a false concept of Christ death and surety ship, they say that one whom Christ died for, was made a surety for, if they perish, its their own fault, but that evil philosophy goes against and is contrary to the Truth of Christ Surety-Ship Heb 7:22

22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
​

 

[beloved57]

Christ died for our sins according to scripture ! Pt 1

That Christ did not die for all men without exception is seen in the content of the Gospel that Paul preached, of which he said also, if anyone preaches one differently, let them be accursed..

1 Cor 15:3

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

When and where did paul receive this Gospel ?

Now this verse of the Gospel declares clearly a definite and particular redemption or that Christ died for a definite people according to scriptures, which are the OT scriptures, for they were about Him notice:

Jn 5:39

Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Lk 24:26-27

26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

And one of the ways the scriptures testify of Christ is through the OT types, of which did shadow forth Particular redemption for a definite people, and not for all men without exception..

Now lets look at the passover lambs Ex 12, that this event was a type is made clear by this scripture 1 Cor 5:7


7Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: Who is us ? The same as the Our sins in 1 Cor 15:3

Also, we this Passover being a type of Christ as to the directions given in Ex 12:46

46 In one house shall it be eaten; thou shalt not carry forth ought of the flesh abroad out of the house; neither shall ye break a bone thereof.

Applied to Christ here Jn 19:36

36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.

Also Ps 34:20 can be applied ..

So from these it's seen how Jesus death [in minute detail] was according to and fulfilled scripture. This appointment of the Passover gives us to know, that the Israelites, in and of themselves were also considered equally sinful before God, and so even God's elect, are by Nature wrathful children even as others Eph 2:3

The sacrifice of the Lambs signified Two things, atonement for sin or a covering up and redemption [ redemption from the plague of death of the firstborn] and so was a suitable type of the work of Christ, and so it was in Peters mind too 1 Pet 1:18-20

18 Forasmuch as ye [Elect see vs 1-2] know that ye [elect] were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

This is true to the type of the Passover as we shall see next.

 

[beloved57]

Christ died for our sins according to scripture pt 2

Now Peter clearly applies this [passover] to Christ in that he speaks of Christ as being a Lamb without blemish, as the passover lamb was required to be; also being foreordained before the foundation of the world, showing that the design of the type was to set that fact forth, for the lamb was to be taken out on the 10th day of the month and kept until the 14th day Ex 12:3-6

3Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house:

4And if the household be too little for the lamb, let him and his neighbour next unto his house take it according to the number of the souls; every man according to his eating shall make your count for the lamb.

5Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:

6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.

The type is this, The 10th day indicating the foreordination or being setup before the foundation of the world, and the 11th -14th days representing the four thousand years before the coming of Christ, being slain in the evening of the 14th day [see Heb 9:26] and so He has been sacrificed in the close of that period.

Now, in this type there is no indication of unlimited atonement or a general provision for all people without exception, but it was particular in its provision as in its application, for it was appointed alone for the Families of Israel; while the egyptians were left exposed to the plague. Now could this type in any way more point to a particular and definite atonement ? So Again, Paul's Gospel is " That Christ died for our sins according to scripture " !

 

[beloved57]

Christ died for our sins according to scripture pt 3

Again, I am showing what paul means in 1 Cor 15:3 when He stated how Christ died for our sins according to scripture, and we have been looking at the OT scriptures as types foreshadowing Christ death, and that the types only applied to a distinct people, Israel and not all men without exception.

We will look at the Day of Atonement for more instruction on how Christ died for sins according to scripture and how it points to a limited atonement for a specific chosen people. see Lev 16.

The Atonement that was made yearly was typical or a figure of the eternal redemption which Christ once and for all obtained for His People [see Matt 1:21]

Heb 7 shows us that Christ was a High Priest, and that of an Higher order than that of the Aaronic priesthood, He being of the order of Melchisedec, yet it is still evident from what is stated of Christ blood and its contrast with the offerings of the High Priest under the law, that they were typical of His Priesthood, for we have no record of Melchisdec offering sacrifices. See Heb 5:1-5; 8:1-6

Now, the High Priest in performing this most sacred function, that is to enter into the Most Holy Place, within the veil, and that only once a year, and that without having blood Lev 16:1-2 cp Heb 9:1-7.

Now in order for this to be done according to Divine Standard, officiating as High Priest, Aaron and after him his son, must be consecrated see Ex 28-29; Lev 8:1-12 also cp Jn 17:19 !

To be consecrated he [Aaron] had to wear the holy clothing or garments, among which was the ephod having two precious stones engraven with the names of the Twelve tribes of Israel, six on each stone, fastened in the two shoulder pieces, in order that he would bear their names upon his shoulders for a memorial. see Ex 39:7 Also was the breast plate containing twelve precious stones, engraven with the names of the twelve tribes of Israel " That Aaron should bear their names in the breastplate of judgment upon his heart, when he goeth into the Holy Place for a memorial before the Lord continually, thus showing that in this sacred work of atonement, and as High Priest, in going into the Holy Place, He represented ONLY the Twelve Tribes of Israel, as a chosen and designated people, and no others..

All other peoples were excluded from the day of atonement, the egyptians, and all other people groups.

This day of atonement typified Christ as officiating as the High Priest of God's chosen People, in making an atonement in behalf of a designated people known by name as per Jn 10:3

3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

These He bears upon His Heart as the objects of His Love Eph 5:25; Rom 5:8; and Jn 13:1

It was a specific people after offering of Himself, He went to appear before God for us Heb 9:24

For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

Note for us, not everybody or anybody, but for us a foreknown and loved people, His Church/Bride Chosen in Him before the foundation...

So again, we have another meaning to what paul meant when He spake of the gospel and said " how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;"

 

[beloved57]

The Lie that God desires the Salvation of all men without exception !

There isn't a bigger falsehood than that of God desiring the salvation of all men without exception. This falsehood is derived from from a false interpretation of 1 Tim 2:4​

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4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.​

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First of all, its impossible for the Almighty God to desire or want anything and it not be done by Him Job 23:13​

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13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.​

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Now, the word desireth here is the hebrew word avah and means:​

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desire, incline, covet, wait longingly, wish, sigh, want, be greedy, prefer​

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So if God in 1 Tim 2:4 wants or wishes all men without exception to be saved, then He would save them, simple as that..​

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Now even the very thoughts of His heart are accomplished forever Ps 33:11​

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11 The counsel of the LORD standeth for ever, the thoughts/plans of his heart to all generations.​

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Certainly those who He wants to be saved He has thoughts for in His Heart, surely He loves them !​

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False religionists have made the Only Sovereign and His desires, which are Eternal and Holy, subservient to His creatures will, mere dust of the earth, who are less than nothing, what Blasphemy.​

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Next, all those God desires salvation for, He has put in the responsibility of His Son's hands, The Lord Jesus Christ, For Jesus says that His purpose for coming was to seek and to save that which was lost Lk 19:10​

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10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.​

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Now, are those Jesus is referring to in this verse, the same the as the ones God wants to be saved in 1 Tim 2:4 ?​

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Yes, of course it is, and if He does not #1 seek them out and #2 save them from their lost condition, then He is a Failure of the expectations of His Father, for Him being sent in to the world.​

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In connection with this Jesus tells us what the Father's will is for Him to do Jn 6:38-39​

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38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. ​

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39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.​

​

Now, are these the same as those God wants to be saved in 1 Tim 2:4 ? Of course they are, only a fool would deny that, and so again we see more evidence, that the Father expects the Son to save and loose not one that the Father wants to be saved. Again, are the ones the Father desires to be saved and come into the knowledge of the Truth as per 1 Tim 2 4, are they they same as the ones being referenced in the passage Jn 6:38-39; Lk 19:10, yes they are, and if one of them is not saved and lost, Christ has disappointed the expectations of His Father's will for Him to accomplish.. So for all of you who like to present this verse 1 Tim 2:4 as God desiring all men without exception to be saved and to come into the Knowledge of the Truth, if just one of them is Lost, you are charging Christ with Failure in doing and accomplishing the will of The Father, that He is suppose to accomplish, He failed, no way around it. The Father also looks like a fool for trusting Christ to accomplish something that He failed to accomplish..​

 

[beloved57]

New Testament scriptures that indicate the specific purpose of Christ death being for a specific people and not all men without exception !

Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Here from an Angel above the special purpose of Christ coming into the world was declared, That He would be manifested as a Saviour in that " For He shall His People from their sins ", hence a special people, the antitype of National Israel, a people He already knew as His own, that are to be saved. Nothing in this declaration warrants a the idea of a general salvation, which is not a salvation at all unless people make it so themselves, delivering their own selves from their sins.

Note that the statement is positive " He shall save His People " and save them from their sins; and His name is Jesus, or Saviour [Thats what a Saviour does, save from sin] Because He shall save this special chosen people from their sins and shew them [experientially] His salvation.

Hence, anyone saying that Jesus Christ becomes a Saviour by something they do, totally disregards the purpose of God set forth in this scripture.

 

[beloved57]

New Testament scriptures that indicate the specific purpose of Christ death being for a specific people and not all men without exception !​

​

More scripture proving the particularity of the atonement Jn 10:15​

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15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.​

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This statement is against any Idea that His death was a mere provision for all without exception, for that must be assumed.​

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These were His Sheep given to Him of the Father Jn 10:14​

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14I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.​

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He knows them even as sinners Lk 15:4-7​

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4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?​

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5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.​

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6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.​

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7I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.​

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Jn 10:16,29​

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16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.​

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These were gentile sheep He had, but they had not yet believed..​

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29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.​

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These sinful sheep had been given to Christ that He may lay down His Life for them..​

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Not the goats.. Men are either by nature, sinful sheep or sinful goats. Christ died for His sinful Sheep only.​

 

[beloved57]

Did Christ die for the purpose of actually saving sinners, or did He only die to make sinners saveable?

How one answers this question, and what they really believe about the Purpose of Christ death, determines if they believe a False Gospel or the True Gospel.

What does the scripture state and indicate as to the purpose of Christ death ?

Christ came to save that which was lost: Matthew 18:11; Luke 19:10

Matt 18:11

11For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

Lk 19:10

10For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

In both scriptures " to save" is the greek infinitive, meaning the stating of a purpose or result.

In other words, the end result for His coming was to save certain sinners, and if He did not save all The Father wanted saved, He has failed His purpose for coming..

Just coming to make them savable was not enough and fell short of the Divine Purpose..

 

[Pierac]

The wages of sin is what?

1. death

2. eternal torment

3. spanking

If you answered anything except #1 you need to go back and read your scriptures. As Jesus died for your sins! Jesus is not suffering eternal torment for you nor did He receive a spanking!

Jesus gave you a right to a resurrection from the dead! He paid the price!


Paul

 

[godrulz]

The wages of sin is what?

1. death

2. eternal torment

3. spanking

If you answered anything except #1 you need to go back and read your scriptures. As Jesus died for your sins! Jesus is not suffering eternal torment for you nor did He receive a spanking!

Jesus gave you a right to a resurrection from the dead! He paid the price!


Paul

Death is separation, not cessation, in Scripture. Eternal death is everlasting, relational separation from God (conscious).

 

[beloved57]

pie:

Jesus gave you a right to a resurrection from the dead! He paid the price!

Is that all your jesus did ? he merely gave those he died for a right to the resurrection of the dead ?

The Jesus Christ I serve, by His resurrection, He gives all that He died for a resurrection. They are born again spiritually by His resurrection in this life 1 pet 1:

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

And He ensures that we will be raised up in the Last day Jn 6:39


And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[Ben Masada]

The wages of sin is what?

1. death

2. eternal torment

3. spanking

If you answered anything except #1 you need to go back and read your scriptures. As Jesus died for your sins! Jesus is not suffering eternal torment for you nor did He receive a spanking!

Jesus gave you a right to a resurrection from the dead! He paid the price!


Paul

I read the Scriptures and foud out that te closest to the wages of sin is #3. Spanking in the proportion according to the transgression. Death cannot be because the sinless also dies. Therefore, one dies because he was born, not because he committed a sin. And it cannot
be eternal torment because there is nothing eternal about man but death, from which a man will never return. (Job 10:21)

 

[Ben Masada]

Did Christ die for the purpose of actually saving sinners, or did He only die to make sinners saveable?

..

Neither. The reason why Jesus died was written on that plate Pilate nailed on the top of his cross. Because some jerks were proclaiming him king of the Jews in public at the entrance to Jerusalem. When sometimes I am watching TV evangelism and listen to the modern jerks proclaim that Jesus is king of the Jews, I am reminded that the responsibles for Jesus' death are back.

 

[beloved57]

Christ's purpose was to save

Christ's purpose was to save and not to merely make salvation possible, those teaching such are preaching another gospel. This is important because it also speaks to the extent and purpose of Christ death, because He died for many as He came to save. This will also prove, scripturally that universal atonement is a deception.

We have looked at Two scriptures earlier stating Christ purpose was to save !

Matt 18:11

11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

Lk 19:10

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

Lets look another scripture stating Christ purpose for coming into the world !

1 Tim 1:15

This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Again, the inspired testimony is not that He came into the world to make sinners savable, to give them a chance to get saved, all that is false teaching, but He came to save.

You see how He saved Paul ? Read Acts 9, there is nothing in that record that gives the slightest hint that Paul was offered to be saved, given a chance or choice to be saved, and all that foolishness of antichrist teaching, but Paul was saved, and made a believer in Christ, and so was his experience given as a pattern on how Christ saves sinners, here his Testimony 1 Tim 1:15

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.


You see, that, we have in the conversion experience of Paul a pattern on How Christ turns sinners into believers by His Power and Grace.

Yes, He came into the world to save sinners, but not all sinners without exception, but the ones He came to save, shall be saved to the Glory of God and His Grace.

 

[yankeedoodled]

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Odd that this should be so confusing, the Lord does not promise allmen salvation, only the opportunity. The Lord's will is that none should perish, mankind choosing disobedient and especially unrepentant will is quite another matter.

 

[beloved57]

The extent of the atonement, for whom did Christ die !

There is simply no way one can preach or believe the Gospel of Christ 1 Cor 15:1- 4 without knowing with understanding who it was specifically Christ died for i.e His Church or His Sheep. This is not even a debatable issue, one either has it right or you are preaching and or believing a false gospel, and chances are, one is in a accursed state who does not have it right Gal 1:8-9, for there is no True Worship of God apart from in Spirit and in Truth Jn 4.

As stated earlier Christ purpose was to save and He shall save Matt 1:21


21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

This is the stated difference between a True Gospel of Christ and the perverted gospel that claims Christ came to die and make salvation possible for all mankind, the tares and the wheat..

If we believe the false gospel that Christ death merely makes all men without exception savable, then we must conclude that the cross of Christ did not actually [in and of itself] save anyone, but only made it possible for men to save themselves by something they do. This is a blasphemous and disgusting conclusion, for this thinking denies that Christ is the One and Only Saviour who Saves: and that His cross work alone was not sufficient enough in itself to save those He intended as per Matt 1:21. This evil system has it that something from the sinner as faith and or repentance needs to be added to what Christ has done, so salvation is not wholly of God through Christ, but that part of it is of God through Christ and part of it from ourselves. What this flesh exalting lie fails to realize is that both Faith and Repentance flows to the objects of Christ death by means of the Cross of Christ, given freely with Him R0m 8:32

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

2 Pet 1:3-4

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Faith is given 1 Tim 1:13-14

13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

Repentance is Given Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Acts 11:18

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

For these things accompany salvation or the giving of Christ to those He died for, so the cross of Christ secures and ensures the total salvation for all for whom He died.

 

[patricius79]

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Odd that this should be so confusing, the Lord does not promise allmen salvation, only the opportunity. The Lord's will is that none should perish, mankind choosing disobedient and especially unrepentant will is quite another matter.

true

 

[beloved57]

yank:

Odd that this should be so confusing, the Lord does not promise allmen salvation, only the opportunity.

This is a Lie..

 

[beloved57]

Stated Purposes of Christ death !

Here are Stated Purposes of what Christ death is to accomplish on its own merit, hence indicating that if these purposes are not applied to all without exception, then His death could not have been for all without exception, lest He failed of His death's intention, which is blasphemous to even consider.

His death was to deliver those He died for from the present evil world Gal 1:4

4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

This deliverance was according to the Will of the Father of Him, and us. Yes, He was our Father before we were delivered, thats why He wanted us delivered. Also it was the Fathers will for Christ to deliver us from this present world, so if we are not delivered, then He [Christ] failed His Fathers will for Him to accomplish, by He giving Himself for our sins.

This being according to the Will of God, it means as stated in Eph 1:5

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Yes, its His determinative will of good pleasure that Christ by His death deliver those He died for from the present evil world.