The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !
- Thread starter beloved57
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beloved57
Well-known member
Thats why Isaiah says that the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in His Hand Isa 53:10
10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
In the Hand of the resurrected Christ, the Pleasure of the LORD [ His Father ] shall prosper, be of good success..
That means the Fathers desires shall prosper in His Hand. The word pleasure is the hebrew word:
chephets and means:
delight, pleasure
a) delight
b) desire, longing
c) the good pleasure
d) that in which one takes delight
That means, the Fathers desire for all men to be saved as in 1 Tim 2:3-4
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
The word will here is the greek word
thelō and means:
to will, have in mind, intend
a) to be resolved or determined, to purpose
b) to desire, to wish
c) to love
1) to like to do a thing, be fond of doing
d) to take delight in, have pleasure
Now notice the similarities in this definition and the one for pleasure in Isa 53:10 !
This Tells me that Christ should prosper in accomplishing the Fathers will in ensuring that the all men the Father desires to be saved and come into the Knowledge of the Truth.
So that's the obligation of the resurrected Christ to see to it that its done. And scripture says He shall prosper, which word means:
Its the hebrew word
tsalach :
Qal) to rush
2) to advance, prosper, make progress, succeed, be profitable
a) (Qal) to prosper
b) (Hiphil)
1) to make prosperous, bring to successful issue, cause to prosper
2) to show or experience prosperity, prosper
In other words, none shall be lost as stated in Jn 6:38
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
So, if any in 1 Tim 2:4 do not be saved and come to the knowledge of the Truth as the Father desires, then Christ has failed His Fathers will and not prospered in the pleasure of the Lord as stated in Isa 53 10
My conclusion is that Christ has prospered, and all who perish in their sins, it just was not Gods will for them to be saved and come into the knowledge of the Truth..
So Christ dying for all without exception is a myth.
10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
In the Hand of the resurrected Christ, the Pleasure of the LORD [ His Father ] shall prosper, be of good success..
That means the Fathers desires shall prosper in His Hand. The word pleasure is the hebrew word:
chephets and means:
delight, pleasure
a) delight
b) desire, longing
c) the good pleasure
d) that in which one takes delight
That means, the Fathers desire for all men to be saved as in 1 Tim 2:3-4
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
The word will here is the greek word
thelō and means:
to will, have in mind, intend
a) to be resolved or determined, to purpose
b) to desire, to wish
c) to love
1) to like to do a thing, be fond of doing
d) to take delight in, have pleasure
Now notice the similarities in this definition and the one for pleasure in Isa 53:10 !
This Tells me that Christ should prosper in accomplishing the Fathers will in ensuring that the all men the Father desires to be saved and come into the Knowledge of the Truth.
So that's the obligation of the resurrected Christ to see to it that its done. And scripture says He shall prosper, which word means:
Its the hebrew word
tsalach :
Qal) to rush
2) to advance, prosper, make progress, succeed, be profitable
a) (Qal) to prosper
b) (Hiphil)
1) to make prosperous, bring to successful issue, cause to prosper
2) to show or experience prosperity, prosper
In other words, none shall be lost as stated in Jn 6:38
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
So, if any in 1 Tim 2:4 do not be saved and come to the knowledge of the Truth as the Father desires, then Christ has failed His Fathers will and not prospered in the pleasure of the Lord as stated in Isa 53 10
My conclusion is that Christ has prospered, and all who perish in their sins, it just was not Gods will for them to be saved and come into the knowledge of the Truth..
So Christ dying for all without exception is a myth.
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beloved57
Well-known member
Another element of Truth that mitigates against the Myth of Christ having died for all men without exception, is God's accuracy in proportioning punishment to each individual as they deserve. Jesus says some will be beaten with many stripes, and some with few stripes as here Lk 12:45-48
45But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
46The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
47And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
Every man will be Judged and rewarded according to what their work were
Rom 2:5-6
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rev 20:13
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
With this in Mind, Christ sufferings though invaluable because of His Splendid Being, nevertheless because of strict righteousness, His sufferings were proportioned to His Peoples Guilt, and this alone was the ground of it's sufficiency to save. The Lord Jesus Christ punishment was penal [ inflicted upon Him for the punishment of the sins of God's covenant chosen people Isa 53:8] so His vicarious sufferings were proportioned to their guilt and so He suffered at the hands of impartial Justice what they [ Gods elect] in their own persons must otherwise have endured in the place of endless woe, and so His sufferings rendered His sacrifice sufficient for the eternal purpose intended in the covenant of Grace, the everlasting covenant..
Isa 53:5,8
5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. Not we might be healed, but we [The elect] are healed..
8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. A specific people..
Rom 8:32-33
32He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who is us all ? vs 33
33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
2 Cor 5:21
21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
1 Pet 3:18
18For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
Not one ounce of Christ blood was shed in vain, for everyone it was designed to save and bring to God , it accomplished the same, and all those who shall have their portion in the lake of fire, He did not shed one drop of blood for..
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beloved57
Well-known member
Christ died only for those who believe !
Christ died only for those who believe, the elect or the sheep. They believe because He hath taken away their sins by the sacrifice of himself for them; but He has not taken away the sins of all men for sure, for they will follow them to the Judgment to be Judged. Also the wrath of God comes upon the children of disobedience for their sins Eph 5:6
6Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things [vs 3-5] cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Those Christ died for are not appointed to wrath for their sins 1 Thess 5:9,10
9For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
10Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
Now if the wrath of God is coming on some for their sins, its reasonable to conclude that Christ did not die for their sins, and they were not included in the our sins of 1 Cor 15:3
3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
For God could not execute His wrath on them yet again ! Once in Christ as their sin bearer and then on them !
It would be unjust and unreasonable that God the Father would receive satisfaction to His Justice for the sins of men, and yet punish the same men for the same sins !! Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right ? Gen 18:25, and yet the reprobate, confirmed unbelievers shall suffer eternally for all their sins, which is shown in Eph 5:6
Jn 3:36
36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
He that is not believing on the Son, shall[promise] not see life ! Its no future hope of them seeing life, they are confirmed in unbelief
They believe not because they cannot believe.
Jn 8:24
24I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
And they believe not because they are not of His Sheep Jn 10:26
26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
And He gave His Life for the sheep vs 15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
This shows the connection between believing and Christ death..
Matt 12:36
36But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Ecc 12:14
14For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
Jude 1:15
15To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
All their sins are considered breaches of the law of God as per 1 Tim 1:9-10
9Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
But for all that Christ died for, He was made a curse for them Gal 3:13
13Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
For surely therefore, Christ did not present a satisfaction or propitiation unto the Fathers Justice for the sins of them who shall meet His Justice at the Judgment..
And those He died for are given the privilege to believe on His Name for His sake Phil 1:29
29For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
And because they were His Sheep Jn 10:26
26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Or Jesus can say " Ye believe" because ye are of my sheep, and I layed down my life for you...
Christ died only for those who believe, the elect or the sheep. They believe because He hath taken away their sins by the sacrifice of himself for them; but He has not taken away the sins of all men for sure, for they will follow them to the Judgment to be Judged. Also the wrath of God comes upon the children of disobedience for their sins Eph 5:6
6Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things [vs 3-5] cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Those Christ died for are not appointed to wrath for their sins 1 Thess 5:9,10
9For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
10Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
Now if the wrath of God is coming on some for their sins, its reasonable to conclude that Christ did not die for their sins, and they were not included in the our sins of 1 Cor 15:3
3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
For God could not execute His wrath on them yet again ! Once in Christ as their sin bearer and then on them !
It would be unjust and unreasonable that God the Father would receive satisfaction to His Justice for the sins of men, and yet punish the same men for the same sins !! Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right ? Gen 18:25, and yet the reprobate, confirmed unbelievers shall suffer eternally for all their sins, which is shown in Eph 5:6
Jn 3:36
36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
He that is not believing on the Son, shall[promise] not see life ! Its no future hope of them seeing life, they are confirmed in unbelief
They believe not because they cannot believe.
Jn 8:24
24I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
And they believe not because they are not of His Sheep Jn 10:26
26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
And He gave His Life for the sheep vs 15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
This shows the connection between believing and Christ death..
Matt 12:36
36But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Ecc 12:14
14For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
Jude 1:15
15To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
All their sins are considered breaches of the law of God as per 1 Tim 1:9-10
9Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
But for all that Christ died for, He was made a curse for them Gal 3:13
13Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
For surely therefore, Christ did not present a satisfaction or propitiation unto the Fathers Justice for the sins of them who shall meet His Justice at the Judgment..
And those He died for are given the privilege to believe on His Name for His sake Phil 1:29
29For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
And because they were His Sheep Jn 10:26
26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Or Jesus can say " Ye believe" because ye are of my sheep, and I layed down my life for you...
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beloved57
Well-known member
Christ died only for those who believe !
So the death of Christ is that which causes or effects believing in Him as one of it's many fruits of accomplishment. Its through His Name [what He has done and accomplished] that some are believing and have remission of sins..
Acts 10:43
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Believing comes through [because of, on account of] His Name !
God through Christ is credited for ones believing..Thats why Paul Thanks God here 2 Thess 2:13
13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Belief of the Truth is believing in Christ who is The Truth..
Jn 3:14-16
14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
The Lifting up of Christ [ His death on the cross] is the underling cause of those believing on Him...
Believing is never a condition for eternal life, but a effect and evidence of Christ death for one..
It is given to believe in Him who died for them Phil 1:29
29For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ[because of His death], not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
Notice it is given to some to believe on Him..it was not offered them, but given as bestowed upon them to believe.
Given is aorist passive, so they received it because it was successfully given to them of God on Christ behalf..
So those who make believing on Christ a condition for receiving eternal life, do pervert the Truth, and steal that away from Christ which His death gives for His sake.
So the death of Christ is that which causes or effects believing in Him as one of it's many fruits of accomplishment. Its through His Name [what He has done and accomplished] that some are believing and have remission of sins..
Acts 10:43
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Believing comes through [because of, on account of] His Name !
God through Christ is credited for ones believing..Thats why Paul Thanks God here 2 Thess 2:13
13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Belief of the Truth is believing in Christ who is The Truth..
Jn 3:14-16
14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
The Lifting up of Christ [ His death on the cross] is the underling cause of those believing on Him...
Believing is never a condition for eternal life, but a effect and evidence of Christ death for one..
It is given to believe in Him who died for them Phil 1:29
29For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ[because of His death], not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
Notice it is given to some to believe on Him..it was not offered them, but given as bestowed upon them to believe.
Given is aorist passive, so they received it because it was successfully given to them of God on Christ behalf..
So those who make believing on Christ a condition for receiving eternal life, do pervert the Truth, and steal that away from Christ which His death gives for His sake.
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beloved57
Well-known member
We know that Christ did not die for everyone without exception because of the efficaciousness of the results His death . His death actually perfects forever all those He died for !
Hebrews 10:14
14For by one offering [His death] he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Those who Christ offered Himself for in death, have been perfected forever and for this cause they shall be continuously being sanctified..
Its just impossible for Christ death not to produce this result..
Hebrews 10:14
14For by one offering [His death] he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Those who Christ offered Himself for in death, have been perfected forever and for this cause they shall be continuously being sanctified..
Its just impossible for Christ death not to produce this result..
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You haven't looked close enough in the scriptures to know that all God's created people are saved from their flesh. Here are a few scriptures you missed and there are many more of them.
0: To the choirmaster: with stringed instruments. A Psalm. A Song.
1: May God be gracious to us and bless us and make his face to shine upon us, [Selah]
2: that thy way may be known upon earth, thy saving power among all nations.
3: Let the peoples praise thee, O God; let all the peoples praise thee!
4: Let the nations be glad and sing for joy, for thou dost judge the peoples with equity and guide the nations upon earth. [Selah]
5: Let the peoples praise thee, O God; let all the peoples praise thee!
6: The earth has yielded its increase; God, our God, has blessed us.
7: God has blessed us; let all the ends of the earth fear him!
I Corinthians 3:
13: each man's work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. The earth's crust will be melted soon and everything on it will be destroyed.
14: If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. The Word, who used the bodies of the prophets, Jesus and us saints, including God's living creation, will continue to live within God after this destruction but only the work of the prophets, Jesus and us saints will be saved because their work was retained in the Word.
15: If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.This verse shows that all people will be saved, even as a sinner who wasn't created as the Word.
I Corinthians 5:
1: It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and of a kind that is not found even among pagans; for a man is living with his father's wife.
2: And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.
3: For though absent in body I am present in spirit, and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment
4: in the name of the Lord Jesus on the man who has done such a thing. When you are assembled, and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus,
5: you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. This verse clearly shows that sinners will be saved even after their flesh is killed.
Isaiah 45:
20: "Assemble yourselves and come, draw near together, you survivors of the nations! They have no knowledge who carry about their wooden idols, and keep on praying to a god that cannot save.
21: Declare and present your case; let them take counsel together! Who told this long ago? Who declared it of old? Was it not I, the LORD? And there is no other god besides me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none besides me.
22: "Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.
23: By myself I have sworn, from my mouth has gone forth in righteousness a word that shall not return: `To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.'
24: "Only in the LORD, it shall be said of me, are righteousness and strength; to him shall come and be ashamed, all who were incensed against him.
25: In the LORD all the offspring of Israel shall triumph and glory." Israel is the symbolic name for all God's people and the Remant of Israel are those of us created as the Word. We are also known as Judah, Two Sticks, The Holy Ones, The Elect, the Sheep, and many others. As you see, all the offspring of Israel shall triumph in salvation.
Titus 2
11: For the grace of God has appeared for the salvation of all men,
John 12
47: If any one hears my sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.
Isaiah 25: 6-9
6: On this mountain the LORD of hosts will make for all peoples a feast of fat things, a feast of wine on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wine on the lees well refined.
7: And he will destroy on this mountain the covering that is cast over all peoples, the veil that is spread over all nations.
8: He will swallow up death for ever, and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from all faces, and the reproach of his people he will take away from all the earth; for the LORD has spoken.
9: It will be said on that day, "Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, that he might save us. This is the LORD; we have waited for him; let us be glad and rejoice in his salvation." Through the Word, Isaiah wrote about the salvation of all people in these scriptures. Not just for one religion called Christianity.
Romans 14: 9-12
9: For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.
10: Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God;
11: for it is written, "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God."
12: So each of us shall give account of himself to God. These scriptures are about all God's people who will be saved.
I Timothy 4:10
10: For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. Those who believe were created as the Word and lived in the flesh of the prophets, Jesus and us saints. We will reign in God's new world during the next age.
Micah 4:
6: In that day, says the LORD, I will assemble the lame and gather those who have been driven away, and those whom I have afflicted;
7: and the lame I will make the remnant; and those who were cast off, a strong nation; and the LORD will reign over them in Mount Zion from this time forth and for evermore. In verse 6, God is talking about all his people being gathered and the lame is the Remnant, those of us in the Word. The sinners will make a strong nation as they inhabit paradise in new immortal bodies. The Word will have new immortal bodies and reign over God's people from Mt. Zion, forever.
Psalms 22: 27-29
26: The afflicted shall eat and be satisfied; those who seek him shall praise the LORD! May your hearts live for ever!
27: All the ends of the earth shall remember and turn to the LORD; and all the families of the nations shall worship before him.
28: For dominion belongs to the LORD, and he rules over the nations.
29: Yea, to him shall all the proud of the earth bow down; before him shall bow all who go down to the dust, and he who cannot keep himself alive. This verse shows that sinners are saved once they die in the flesh. The flesh cannot keep living during this age because of the limits God put on them. But his created men will live forever.
Isaiah 55: 5-7
5: Behold, you shall call nations that you know not, and nations that knew you not shall run to you, because of the LORD your God, and of the Holy One of Israel, for he has glorified you.
6: "Seek the LORD while he may be found, call upon him while he is near;
7: let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the LORD, that he may have mercy on him, and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. These scriptures easily show all sinners being forgiven of their sins.
Isaiah 56: 6-8
6: "And the foreigners who join themselves to the LORD, to minister to him, to love the name of the LORD, and to be his servants, every one who keeps the sabbath, and does not profane it, and holds fast my covenant,
7: these I will bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer; their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples. These two verses reveal the Word who will be delivered into new adult immortal bodies on Mt. Zion to rule over God's people.
8: Thus says the Lord GOD, who gathers the outcasts of Israel, I will gather yet others to him besides those already gathered." This scripture shows that all sinners will be forgiven and live in paradise forever. Israel is all of God's people.
Acts 17: 24-31
24: The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in shrines made by man,
25: nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all men life and breath and everything.These verses point out to religions of man that have no value to God.
26: And he made from one every nation of men to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their habitation,
27: that they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel after him and find him. Yet he is not far from each one of us,
28: for ..In him we live and move and have our being'; as even some of your poets have said, ..For we are indeed his offspring.' This verse shows how we live in God's heavenly existence and the flesh we move in.
29: Being then God's offspring, we ought not to think that the Deity is like gold, or silver, or stone, a representation by the art and imagination of man.
30: The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all men everywhere to repent,
31: because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed, and of this he has given assurance to all men by raising him from the dead."
Genesis 22:
15: And the angel of the LORD called to Abraham a second time from heaven,
16: and said, "By myself I have sworn, says the LORD, because you have done this, and have not withheld your son, your only son,
17: I will indeed bless you, and I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven and as the sand which is on the seashore. And your descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies,
18: and by your descendants shall all the nations of the earth bless themselves, because you have obeyed my voice." God didn't say anything about a religion of man. He said descendants of ALL nations will be blessed.
Zephaniah 3:
8: "Therefore wait for me," says the LORD, "for the day when I arise as a witness. For my decision is to gather nations, to assemble kingdoms, to pour out upon them my indignation, all the heat of my anger; for in the fire of my jealous wrath all the earth shall be consumed.
9: "Yea, at that time I will change the speech of the peoples to a pure speech, that all of them may call on the name of the LORD and serve him with one accord. These scriptures show the destruction at the end of this age that will destroy everything on earth. The last verse shows them living in paradise with a new language and they'll all know the true God.
John 12:
30: Jesus answered, "This voice has come for your sake, not for mine.
31: Now is the judgment of this world, now shall the ruler of this world be cast out; The ruler of this world is the sinful flesh of man called Satan. It has to be destroyed so all men can be saved to go to paradise and live forever in new bodies. You can see how God will draw all men to himself.
32: and I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself."
33: He said this to show by what death he was to die. Jesus showed us that we had to die in the flesh so our created souls can live on with him into paradise where we'll live forever.
Habakkuk 3:
12: Thou didst bestride the earth in fury, thou didst trample the nations in anger.
13: Thou wentest forth for the salvation of thy people, for the salvation of thy anointed. Thou didst crush the head of the wicked, laying him bare from thigh to neck. This shows the sinners being saved and those of us in the Word, the anointed ones. Crushing the head of the wicked are when the sinful flesh dies. The whole Bible is about the sinful flesh being destroyed by the Word of God so that all God's living creation will be free to live in paradise.
Psalm 31:
23: Love the LORD, all you his saints! The LORD preserves the faithful, but abundantly requites him who acts haughtily. This shows those of us in the Word and the forgiveness of all sinners.
Isaiah 66:
22: "For as the new heavens and the new earth which I will make shall remain before me, says the LORD; so shall your descendants and your name remain.
23: From new moon to new moon, and from sabbath to sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before me, says the LORD.
24: "And they shall go forth and look on the dead bodies of the men that have rebelled against me; for their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh." These verses show two different flesh of man. The new flesh in paradise and the flesh that dies during this age. It says in verse 23 that ALL flesh will worship before the Lord. That's obviously not happening today in this age of sinfulness.
Ezekiel 37:
21: then say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I will take the people of Israel from the nations among which they have gone, and will gather them from all sides, and bring them to their own land;
22: and I will make them one nation in the land, upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; and they shall be no longer two nations, and no longer divided into two kingdoms. These verses are about paradise when all God's people will be living together as one nation and the Word, the one King, will be the people who will rule the new Kingdom of God.
23: They shall not defile themselves any more with their idols and their detestable things, or with any of their transgressions; but I will save them from all the backslidings in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them; and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.
24: "My servant David shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall follow my ordinances and be careful to observe my statutes.
25: They shall dwell in the land where your fathers dwelt that I gave to my servant Jacob; they and their children and their children's children shall dwell there for ever; and David my servant shall be their prince for ever. David is a symbolic name for the Word that all the prophets, Jesus and us saints were created as. We will be the prince forever.
26: I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them; and I will bless them and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
27: My dwelling place shall be with them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
28: Then the nations will know that I the LORD sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary is in the midst of them for evermore." This verse is when we're living on the new earth called paradise. All God's people will live in paradise forever.
Ezekiel 39:
21: "And I will set my glory among the nations; and all the nations shall see my judgment which I have executed, and my hand which I have laid on them.
22: The house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God, from that day forward.
23: And the nations shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity, because they dealt so treacherously with me that I hid my face from them and gave them into the hand of their adversaries, and they all fell by the sword.
24: I dealt with them according to their uncleanness and their transgressions, and hid my face from them.
25: "Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: Now I will restore the fortunes of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel; and I will be jealous for my holy name.
26: They shall forget their shame, and all the treachery they have practiced against me, when they dwell securely in their land with none to make them afraid,
27: when I have brought them back from the peoples and gathered them from their enemies' lands, and through them have vindicated my holiness in the sight of many nations.
28: Then they shall know that I am the LORD their God because I sent them into exile among the nations, and then gathered them into their own land. I will leave none of them remaining among the nations any more;
29: and I will not hide my face any more from them, when I pour out my Spirit upon the house of Israel, says the Lord GOD." These scriptures are saying that all sinners are forgiven and will be living in paradise. There's nothing about man's religion in any of these scriptures of this writing. It's all about the created man being saved from his sinful flesh by God and then given a new flesh to live in paradise.
Daniel 12:
1: "At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time; but at that time your people shall be delivered, every one whose name shall be found written in the book. The book of life is all of God's created people but their flesh will be destroyed during this age. The Word is the most important during this age to gather knowledge to bring with to paradise. Even their flesh is mortal during this age so we all die.
2: And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. The sinners will have everlasting contempt because they won't have the knowledge of God like the Word does.
3: And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever.
4: But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase."
Micah 5:
7: Then the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many peoples like dew from the LORD, like showers upon the grass, which tarry not for men nor wait for the sons of men.
8: And the remnant of Jacob shall be among the nations, in the midst of many peoples, like a lion among the beasts of the forest, like a young lion among the flocks of sheep, which, when it goes through, treads down and tears in pieces, and there is none to deliver. These scriptures again, point to those of us people in the Word and the rest of God's people living in paradise.
Micah 7:
15: As in the days when you came out of the land of Egypt I will show them marvelous things.
16: The nations shall see and be ashamed of all their might; they shall lay their hands on their mouths; their ears shall be deaf;
17: they shall lick the dust like a serpent, like the crawling things of the earth; they shall come trembling out of their strongholds, they shall turn in dread to the LORD our God, and they shall fear because of thee.
18: Who is a God like thee, pardoning iniquity and passing over transgression for the remnant of his inheritance? He does not retain his anger for ever because he delights in steadfast love.
19: He will again have compassion upon us, he will tread our iniquities under foot. Thou wilt cast all our sins into the depths of the sea.
20: Thou wilt show faithfulness to Jacob and steadfast love to Abraham, as thou hast sworn to our fathers from the days of old.
coulter4president
New member
sorry but you are making NO sense!
you say you dont believe and then you quote scripture that you do not then attempt to dispute..
so when i begin to half understand you, i will respond, i reckon...
You have no idea what the true gospel is so these verses you use are a way to avoid the truth in all these scriptures I gave you. We are all saved from our flesh when our flesh dies and our souls remain in God for eternity. We never leave God to live in the flesh. We're just using our earthly body to experience our created life in God. This first age was only meant for God's chosen ones to be used to reveal his knowledge. This knowledge is needed for us when we wake up in our new immortal bodies in the new earth. This knowledge will teach us new vocabulary words and language that we'll teach all the new people that are reborn into paradise. We will speak this one language of truth forever and ever.
BabyChristian
New member
Good thing I'm a speed non-reader, that was too long.
The Jews and Roman and government who had Jesus and the other saints killed didn't know the gospel. The gospel is not some words out of a book that the Romans changed.
What is the gospel you believe in since you're judging me with the wrong one?
Here's what the true gospel is.
The gospel is the voice of God and also the spoken word. All throughout the Bible you can read about the voice of God, the word of God, the gospel of God or gospel of Jesus Christ. These are only names to describe something that only the prophets, Jesus and us saints have ever witnessed because we're the ones who speak for God. Everyone else is deaf and blind to the Word.
Here are scriptures to show that God's voice is described in different ways. These scriptures are from many different prophets and saints who were speaking for God when they wrote them.
Genesis 15
1: After these things the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision, "Fear not, Abram, I am your shield; your reward shall be very great."
2: But Abram said, "O Lord GOD, what wilt thou give me, for I continue childless, and the heir of my house is Elie'zer of Damascus?"
3: And Abram said, "Behold, thou hast given me no offspring; and a slave born in my house will be my heir."
4: And behold, the word of the LORD came to him, "This man shall not be your heir; your own son shall be your heir."
Deuteronomy 28:
1: And if you obey the voice of the LORD your God, being careful to do all his commandments which I command you this day, the LORD your God will set you high above all the nations of the earth.
2: And all these blessings shall come upon you and overtake you, if you obey the voice of the LORD your God.
15: "But if you will not obey the voice of the LORD your God or be careful to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command you this day, then all these curses shall come upon you and overtake you.
Jeremiah 7:
23: But this command I gave them, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and you shall be my people; and walk in all the way that I command you, that it may be well with you.'
28: And you shall say to them, `This is the nation that did not obey the voice of the LORD their God, and did not accept discipline; truth has perished; it is cut off from their lips.
Exodus 19:
5: Now therefore, if you will obey my voice and keep my covenant, you shall be my own possession among all peoples; for all the earth is mine,
Ezekiel 12
25: But I the LORD will speak the word which I will speak, and it will be performed. It will no longer be delayed, but in your days, O rebellious house, I will speak the word and perform it, says the Lord GOD."
26: Again the word of the LORD came to me:
27: "Son of man, behold, they of the house of Israel say, `The vision that he sees is for many days hence, and he prophesies of times far off.'
28: Therefore say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: None of my word will be delayed any longer, but the word which I speak will be performed, says the Lord GOD."
Psalm 103
19: The LORD has established his throne in the heavens, and his kingdom rules over all.
20: Bless the LORD, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word!
Romans 10
8: But what does it say? The word is near you, on your lips and in your heart (that is, the word of faith which we preach);
15: And how can men preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach good news!"
16: But they have not all obeyed the gospel; for Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?"
17: So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes by the preaching of Christ.
18: But I ask, have they not heard? Indeed they have; for "Their voice has gone out to all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world."
Mark 1
14: Now after John was arrested, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God,
15: and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent, and believe in the gospel."
Mark 10
28: Peter began to say to him, "Lo, we have left everything and followed you."
29: Jesus said, "Truly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or lands, for my sake and for the gospel,
30: who will not receive a hundredfold now in this time, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions, and in the age to come eternal life.
1 Thessolonians 1
4: For we know, brethren beloved by God, that he has chosen you;
5: for our gospel came to you not only in word, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction. You know what kind of men we proved to be among you for your sake.
6: And you became imitators of us and of the Lord, for you received the word in much affliction, with joy inspired by the Holy Spirit;
It's difficult to face the truth when you thought you knew something about God. Scriptures will deceive sinners who don't have the truth in them. All these scriptures I used show the true gospel is the voice of God and only Jesus and us saints were able to speak for him.