The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

[Pierac]

Death is separation, not cessation, in Scripture. Eternal death is everlasting, relational separation from God (conscious).

Really?

Because Adam and Eve never recieved this definition... Find it for me please!

Cain never recieved this definition and he killed his brother ... Find it for me please!

Noah never taught this the whole time he built his ark! ... Find it for me please!

Moses never taught this ... Find it for me please!

Abraham never spoke of such things... Find it for me please!

Jesus never taught such... Find it for me please!

No apostle taught as such... Find it for me please!

Psa 88:10 Do you work wonders for the dead? Do the departed rise up to praise you? Selah

Psa 115:17 The dead do not praise the LORD, nor do any who go down into silence.

Psa 146:4 When his breath departs, he returns to the earth; on that very day his plans perish.

Ecc 9:10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might, for there is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol, to which you are going.

Listen to Peter!!!
2Pe 3:4 They will say, "Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation."


:think: Think, why is it not taught in scriptures, but only in man made institutions???

Paul

 

[beloved57]

Stated Purposes of Christ death !2

Another stated Purpose for Christ death is given by Paul here Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself [That means died] for us, that[in order that] he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

The Purpose of His death both redeems and purifies those whom He died for, thats why God gave Him to die..

The word purify is the greek word katharizō and means:

to make clean, cleanse

a) from physical stains and dirt

1) utensils, food

2) a leper, to cleanse by curing

3) to remove by cleansing

b) in a moral sense

1) to free from defilement of sin and from faults

2) to purify from wickedness

3) to free from guilt of sin, to purify

4) to consecrate by cleansing or purifying

5) to consecrate, dedicate

2) to pronounce clean in a levitical sense

Thats what Christ death, the giving of Himself does, that is what God the Father's Purpose and Intention was for the death of Christ to accomplish for all those He would die for..

If one person that Christ gave himself for falls short of this clearly stated purpose of Christ death, then His death was failure.

And sense we know from scripture all will not be purified, then Christ did not give Himself for all without exception..

 

[beloved57]

Stated Purposes of Christ death !

To sanctify and cleanse Eph 5:25-27

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave[died for] himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

The word that is important, it is the greek word hina and its a conjunction which means:

that, in order that, so that

Its to point to stating a purpose or reason..

So Christ gave himself for the Church so that He he will present it to Himself in a certain way.

The word might here puts the phrase in what is called the subjunctive mood which means:

The subjunctive mood is the mood of possibility and potentiality. The action described may or may not occur, depending upon circumstances.

The action to be done is determined by the Who or what fulfills the condition, which in this case is Christ through His death.

That is The church, to be presented to Himself a Glorious church, He had to give of Himself for that purpose. It could not just happen on its own.

So whenever you have the subjunctive mood preceded by the conjunction hina, the subjunctive is being introduced as a stated purpose.

So Three Purposes are stated in this passage as to why Christ gave Himself for the Church #1 vs 26 To sanctify and cleanse it vs 27a # 2 To present it to himself a glorious church and vs 27b#3 That it should be Holy and without blemish.

So if any do not find themselves in these stated purposes in the Day of Christ, then Christ simply did not die for them, or give Himself for them.

 

[yankeedoodled]

beloved57:
This is a Lie..

yankeedoodled:
It is truth that you find offensive, of course you have a self serving lie substitute that the wicked must inherit eternal life ?

 

[beloved57]

To remove God's Wrath !

Another stated Purpose for Christ Death was to remove or propitiate God's wrath of which it did Rom 3:25

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

The word propitiation is the greek word hilastērion and means:

relating to an appeasing or expiating, having placating or expiating force, expiatory; a means of appeasing or expiating, a propitiation

a) used of the cover of the ark of the covenant in the Holy of Holies, which was sprinkled with the blood of the expiatory victim on the annual day of atonement (this rite signifying that the life of the people, the loss of which they had merited by their sins, was offered to God in the blood as the life of the victim, and that God by this ceremony was appeased and their sins expiated); hence the lid of expiation, the propitiatory

b) an expiatory sacrifice

c) a expiatory victim

The Idea is that God has been appeased by the sacrifice of His Son for the sins of His People.

The punishment due to all the elect of God, all of their sins against God, Have been Justly vindicated by Christ death for them, God has no Legal Grounds to punish them for their sins because He punished Christ in their stead and His Justice has been fully satisfied on their behalf. He has been placated. And He shows each of His elect that Truth in due time, that's why its stated that Christ was set forth to be a propitiation through Faith.

Abel Looked to Him when He made that sacrifice by Faith Heb 11:4

4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

Notice, by which He obtained witness that he was righteous, not that he became righteous by what he did. He had been given Faith that His sins would be taken care of by Lamb of God, the seed of the women.

All for whom Christ has died will be given this Faith as an evidence that they are righteous, not by their own obedience, but by the Obedience of One Jesus Christ Rom 5:19b

so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. Yes, that was Abel's hope too.

 

[patricius79]

Another stated Purpose for Christ Death was to remove or propitiate God's wrath of which it did Rom 3:
25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

The word propitiation is the greek word hilastērion and means:


relating to an appeasing or expiating, having placating or expiating force, expiatory; a means of appeasing or expiating, a propitiation
..

I think that God is Love, not wrath.

we are the ones that are angry

and the value Christ's Sacrifice is enough to cover all humans and teach us all to love, which is grace

1 Jn 4:8, 1 Jn 2:2, 1 Tim 4:10

 

[godrulz]

I think that God is Love, not wrath.

we are the ones that are angry

and the value Christ's Sacrifice is enough to cover all humans and teach us all to love, which is grace

1 Jn 4:8, 1 Jn 2:2, 1 Tim 4:10

God is love, but His wrath is also seen in Scripture (holiness). His wrath flows out of His love.

 

[beloved57]

To reconcile us to God !

Another stated purpose for the death of Christ, God's Son is to reconcile us [ those He died for] to God !

Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

All those Christ died for have been reconciled to God by His Death, it cant be made more plainer than what this scripture states.

And this reconciliation occurred while or when we were enemies, that is faithless.

You see, thats a major difference between those who are God's enemies by nature, the non elect, and those who are the elect who are God's enemies by nature, the elect are still reconciled to God and in His Favor.

The word reconciled is the greek word Katallasso and means:

to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value

to reconcile (those who are at variance)

return to favour with, be reconciled to one

to receive one into favour

So that, even while we are enemies by nature, all those Christ died for have been received into God's Favor.

However, this is not True for all those Christ did not for, instead of His Favor, they remain under God's wrath.. Jn 3:36


He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

You see, that cannot be True of the elect while they are unbelievers and enemies. Because while in that state, they have been reconciled to God by Christ death..

 

[beloved57]

To obtain Eternal Redemption for us !

Another stated purpose for the death of Christ is shown here Heb 9:12

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained or procured eternal redemption for us.

Note that its a Eternal Redemption, the word Eternal is aionios and means:

without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be

without beginning

without end, never to cease, everlasting

And redemption is lutrosis:

a ransoming, redemption

deliverance, esp. from the penalty of sin

He has obtained or procured for His body, the Church a never to cease, without end deliverance from the penalty of their sins..

So they have the redemption with the forgiveness of sins through His blood Eph 1:7


7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

And we know all without exception have this Eternal Redemption obtained for them by Christ saying these words unto them:

Matt 7:23

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

BTW- Redemption is its own application, not something one has to decide to accept or reject , but something God does or applies :

Lk 1:68

68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

Ps 111:9

9 He sent redemption unto his people: he hath commanded his covenant for ever: holy and reverend is his name.


God commands His redemption for His People, His Chosen in Christ. It is not a offer for them to accept or reject.

Isa 43:1

1 But now thus saith the LORD that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine.

In the redemption that God Himself does or applies, it Turns God's People from their sins Acts 3:26

26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

Thats the effect of redemption in addition to the forgiveness of sins, It Turns everyone who has been redeemed from their sins, as a evidence of having been set free..

 

[patricius79]

God is love, but His wrath is also seen in Scripture (holiness). His wrath flows out of His love.

yes and it has to do with our sins. for that reason I don't think it is intrinsic to God, if you follow me

btw, God does not regard heresy as a light matter.

although, I do realize that some people involved in heresies have invincible ignorance

 

[beloved57]

pat:

btw, God does regard heresy as a light matter.

Oh really ? How do you explain Gal 5:

19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

and 2 pet 2:

1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

 

[patricius79]

pat:



Oh really ? How do you explain Gal 5:

19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

and 2 pet 2:

1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

amen. sorry: I accidentallly didn't type "not". ( I corrected my post, now)

 

[beloved57]

more on redemption !

These scriptures have been clear that Christ death was not merely to make redemption[salvation] possible, but to actually redeem them He died for, for God's purpose cannot fail as per Job 42:2

2 I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.

2 “I know that You can do everything,
And that no purpose of Yours can be withheld from You.[NKJV]

2"I know that you can do all things,
and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted.[ESV]

And Isa 46:10

10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Then everyone Christ died for must be redeemed, and it is a scriptural fact that all without exception are not eternally redeemed, so then He did not die for everyone without exception lest His purpose failed, or yet will everyone be redeemed, which there is no scriptural proof of, unless you wrest scripture to your destruction as the universalist do..

 

[yankeedoodled]

Matthew 18:3
And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Luke 18:17
Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.”

There are many of guile and hidden purposes that want heaven and are quite willing to play the God 'game' in hopes of eternal life. I've read; even the wicked want to go to heaven. The 'clever' will find their subterfuge and hidden posturing/false pretenses will serve them not all all on judgment day.

 

[Ps82]

Another popular Myth in the religious world today, is the Jesus Christ died or gave His Life for everyone in the world without exception, but the problem with that, is there is not one shred of scripture evidence that states that.

The scripture however does say that He died for His Sheep or His Church as per Jn 10:

11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

eph 5:

25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

His People Isa 53:

8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. cp Matt 1:21

Now, are all without exception His Sheep ? No

Are all without exception His Church ? No

Are all without exception His People ? No

For surely the seed of the serpent Gen 3:15 cannot be of His Sheep, His Church, or His People.

So why does the religous world proclaim that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception, when they have no scripture proof ? Because it is a Myth.

Beloved and others,
The miracle God performed in flesh as Jesus was all that was necessary to save ALL MANKIND... so in that way... the Messiah did die to save ALL MEN... however, not ALL MEN would accept His gift of salvation.

But the fact that ALL MEN will not accept their salvation from God should not be blamed on God, for He did die so that ALL MEN could be saved.

 

[patricius79]

Beloved and others,
The miracle God performed in flesh as Jesus was all that was necessary to save ALL MANKIND... so in that way... the Messiah did die to save ALL MEN... however, not ALL MEN would accept His gift of salvation.

But the fact that ALL MEN will not accept their salvation from God should not be blamed on God, for He did die so that ALL MEN could be saved.

amen. 1 Jn 2:2

the historic Church has always defended the doctrine of our free will, and God's Infinite Mercy

 

[beloved57]

Glory in the Cross for redemption !

Gal 6:14

14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

The Cross of Christ did not merely make redemption possible for those He died in behalf of, but it made certain that they would become believers, that they would come into experimental salvation, so the cross saves completely, Paul knew it, and so does a True Christian.

What did Christ do when He died ? This should be known if we really believe the Gospel " That Christ died for our sins according to scripture".

Christ death proved to be an effective cure for the sinners He died for, for it is written, By His Stripes [Meaning His Death or Cross] we were healed 1 Pet 2:24

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

The word healed is the greek word iaomai and means:

to cure, heal

2) to make whole

a) to free from errors and sins, to bring about (one's) salvation

By His Stripes or Cross He brings about ones Salvation, He makes them whole.337

It effects a spiritual healing, It heals the deadly wound of sin and spiritual death

The saved are healed not by their faith, their freewill, their repentance, but solely by the Cross / Stripes of Christ.

This is what redemption through His Blood accomplishes for all that He died.

Now, did He die for all without exception ? The obvious answer is no, since all without exception will not be made whole or healed .

 

[beloved57]

His Death was a Propitiation for the sins of those He died for !

1 Jn 4:10

10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

What does this word mean here ? Propitiation, well it is the greek word hilasmos:

an appeasing, propitiating

2) the means of appeasing, a propitiation


Christ was the means by which God would appease Himself of His Wrath against all those Christ died for. He will, did not, and cannot appease Himself by punishing anyone that Christ has died for, regardless if those persons accept it or not, the point is that He has accepted it from Christ's offering on their behalf..

The word appease means primarily:

To bring peace !

Because of Christ propitiation, peace is restored and those Christ died for have been reconciled to God by the death of Christ which appeased God Rom 5:10a

10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son

That word reconciled is closely akin to propitiate in 1 Jn 4:10..Its greek word is katallassō and means:


to reconcile (those who are at variance)

b) return to favour with, be reconciled to one

c) to receive one into favour

God was at variance/enmity with the elect because of their sins

But because Christ was sent to be a propitiation, that variance, enmity, conflict has been removed, Godwardly.

So, that even while the elect are at enmity with Him by Nature, they have been reconciled and returned to His Favor by the death of His Son on their behalf.

So the elect, or those Christ died for, are born in need of being converted, yet they are not under judicial condemnation or God's wrath while unconverted, because God has sent His Son to be the propitiation for their sins, because He Loved them.

 

[beloved57]

Rev 5:9-10 The effectiveness of Christ redemption !

Rev 5:9-10

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

The effectiveness of Christ redemption proves that it was not for all mankind without exception, this is a precious gospel Truth that Glorifies the Cross of Christ, because it means that His Cross actually saves , that's the power of the cross.1 Cor 1:18

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

The preaching or the method of speaking is not the power of God, but the cross, the focus of the message, it is the power of God unto them who are being saved by it. .That is the Cross Saves it has power.

Now returning focus on Rev 5:9-10 vs 9 is it anywhere indicated that Christ ransomed [died] for everyone in each ethnic Group ? No it's not, for if so, it would not be careful to read that the ransomed or redeemed are out of every kindred, tongue and people and nation ! So any honest heart can perceive from vs 9 that Jesus redeeming blood was limited in intention, and only meant to save out of all people..

Acts 15:14

Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

Next, lets consider vs 10 as to what happens to them who are ransomed. It states that Christ by His blood [not by their freewill or faith] makes them to be a kingdom and priest to God, this is the effectiveness, it makes them these things Rev 1:5-6

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Now the same persons that were ransomed in vs 9 are said to be made a kingdom and priests , which is to say that all for whom Christ redeemed by His blood will become believers and shall be saved, for the same Truth is expressed for all whom He reconciled to God by His death, shall be saved by His Life Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

It can be absolutely no one Christ died for that shall not be saved and become a believer, a Priest to God, because the verse is emphatic in stating that those He died for, shed His blood for are made [not offered] into a Kingdom of Priest to God, so its seen from vs 10, that Christ redemption is efficacious in nature.

BTW, Those in 2 Pet 2:1 Could not have been bought with Christ redeeming blood, or that would contradict the effectiveness of Christ redemption that is taught here in Rev, So evidently the being bought there must mean something other than blood bought redemption.

 

[beloved57]

The Atonement or Satisfaction of Christ is unlimited in its Geographical extent, the whole world and not just Palestine or ethnic jews, but however it is limited in its purpose to save and effectiveness.

God's Purpose of Salvation through Christ is Limited to the seed of Abraham Heb 2:16

For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Gal 3:29

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Only Heirs of Abraham's seed are promised Eternal life and Salvation..

But the seed of Abraham was not limited to one particular nation or geographical location or race, but was in every nation Gen 17:5

5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.